Offensive Line and Mankins

[randomk1]

Ojinnaka is a FA and likely won't be back. There have already been rumors of Kazcur being cut if he doesn't take a pay cut from his $3.5M salary this year. I think they will resign Light to a 2 year deal around $6.5M and hopefully resign Mankins as well even if just for 1 year. They will only carry 8-9 OL and I don't think Maneri will make it back to the PS this year.

My 2011 Line
LIGHT--MANKINS--KOPPEN--CONNOLLY--VOLLMER
SOLDER--CANNON--WENDELL--MANERI

Cannon and Solder are Orhnberger and Levoir's replacements with Wendell backing up Koppen. In 2012 I think they will let Light go and resign Koppen to a 1-2 year deal and draft a C.

My 2012 Line
SOLDER--MANKINS--KOPPEN--CANNON--VOLLMER
MANERI--ROOKIE C & OG

I'm not so sure that i'd like to see Light as the starting LT....he is too big of a liability in pass protection imo. I wonder if he could be moved inside to RG. I just feel that if you draft a lineman #17 you'd expect him to start in week 1.

 

[patfanken]

By the end of the year, the OL will look like this:

SOLDER--MANKINS--KOPPEN--LIGHT--VOLLMER
KACZUR--CANNON--CONNOLLY--OHRNBERGER--LEVOIR
MANERI--WENDELL--OJINNAKA

For 2012, I can see Kaczur cut for Maneri, Mankins gone to FA or trade, LeVoir, Ohrnberger, Wendell and Ojinnaka cut to make way for a bunch of rookies.

2012
SOLDER--CANNON--KOPPEN--LIGHT--VOLLMER
MANERI--CONNOLLY

VERY interesting prognostication. I too would HOPE that Light would be retained as a OG. I have wanted to see him in that position for many years. I think he's be great. However as a simple economic move I doubt it happening. Here's hoping you are right.

I think this will be Koppen's last season. HE is the next urgent replacement part, and it will be a hard one to replace.

BTW- people should realize that Cannon (when he's ready) will not be a typical Patriot OG. He doesn't match the usual very nimble but light in the pants OLmen the Pats have put out there for the past decade. Cannon is pure road grader on the run and pure block of granite vs the pass. I doubt you will see him getting out on the edge in bubble screens or leading runs to the other side. This change is due in part to the change BB is seeing in league. More and more defenses are attacking the pass with a big push up the middle. This is BB's first move to adjust to that reality, By bringing in a more "immovable" type of player in the middle, he solves that issue, but giving up some of that nimbleness. Its the right trade off IMHO.

I don't care about Mankins future. All I know is that right now he will be with the Pats THIS year, and that's all I care about. I know Connolly can be a short term fix and we can easily get an even better replacement than Connolly in the draft or FA in the future. I'd like to see him signed long term, but I no longer see it as a critical issue. Quite frankly, I'm tired of thinking about Logan Mankins future. The Pats will make him a very rich man this season. After that, whatever happens... happens

 

[SanAngeloState]

Light can move inside to guard...PERFECT FIT.

He isn't good enough for anyone to pay him top money as a LT anymore. No one will...instead he stays here for "modest" money (approx 2 years / 8M).

Hopefully mankins can be traded for a #2 pick next year and they don't have to pay him 10M this year. That is unconscionable.

 

[patfanken]

I hope we do keep Light, I think Solder is part of a long term plan, he does not look very strong to me, he plays pretty high, He may have long arms but DL get up under him and bull rush him. He does have good feet.

Having Light around will be good for #12's health and Solder's development.

Plus would like to see a few present day Patriots players stay till they retire.

You DON'T pick a guy 17th and not plan to start him right away. Clearly he is not the player right now that he will be down the road. But it doesn't look like the Pats got this guy as a Plan B. He's the guy they wanted all along. And if that was the case, they didn't get him to sit a year. They got him because THEY think he can start right away. Evidently THEY think he's strong enough, and if you watch the sports science clip on him, you would think so too.

 

[SirApropos]

Light can move inside to guard...PERFECT FIT.

He isn't good enough for anyone to pay him top money as a LT anymore. No one will...instead he stays here for "modest" money (approx 2 years / 8M).

Hopefully mankins can be traded for a #2 pick next year and they don't have to pay him 10M this year. That is unconscionable.

I just don't see Matt Light's ego allowing him to play Guard since he's always been a LT. If that was the only option for him on the Pats OL he would probably sign somewhere else like Kansas City to play LT there and they could move Brandon Albert to RT where he belongs.

Just because Solder was drafted at 17 doesn't mean he has to start this year. Brian Bulaga was drafted 23rd in 2010 and didn't begin the year as a starter and only got the job after an injury. Solder will start when he is ready and not before. That could be part way through the season or in 2012.

 

[patfanken]

Light can move inside to guard...PERFECT FIT.


Hopefully mankins can be traded for a #2 pick next year and they don't have to pay him 10M this year. That is unconscionable.

Its less unconscionable when you think they got him for the better part of last season for about $500,000. If you look at it that way they will have gotten Mankins over the last 2 years for about $5.5MM/yr. It looks a lot better if you think about it that way.

 

[patfanken]

I expect us to make Mankins a fine offer, and that Mankins will refuse and play out his franchise. The nfl is a business. Mankins will do his job in 2011 for $10M or so and move on. And both Mankins and the team will part on good terms.

However, we don't have the replacement for Mankins. Cannon is our RG. Ohrnberger is the only interior lineman signed passed this year. Connolly and Wendell are both signed only through 2011. Koppen is only signed through 2011.

We need interior line help. Cannon is just the start. if we look to 2012 (as we shoud0, we have a Cannon (starting RG) and Ohrnberger (backup OG).

I agree on Mankins. For this season, he is all set. After that its an issue, but one that will be solved thru the draft or FA NEXT season. And again for all those who don't see the Pats actually forking out $10MM for him THIS season, its a lot more palatable if you think about it as about $5.5MM over the last 2 seasons. Don't forget he made less that a million last year, even though we got the better part of a season from him.

IMHO Koppen is the NEXT urgent replacement target in 2012

 

[randomk1]

I agree on Mankins. For this season, he is all set. After that its an issue, but one that will be solved thru the draft or FA NEXT season. And again for all those who don't see the Pats actually forking out $10MM for him THIS season, its a lot more palatable if you think about it as about $5.5MM over the last 2 seasons. Don't forget he made less that a million last year, even though we got the better part of a season from him.

IMHO Koppen is the NEXT urgent replacement target in 2012

Most definately.

 

[borg]

Have you noticed that BB has nearly rebuilt the offense over the last 3 drafts. Considering that his offense was #1 in points last year, hopefully these young guys can transition in and maintain the status quo.

............2009...................2010......................2011.....(round drafted)

TE...............................Gronkowski(2)
LT...............................................................Solder(1)
LG........................................................................
C..........................................................................
RG..............................................................Cannon(5)
RT........Volmer(2)
TE................................................................Smith(5)

TE/WR.........................Hernandez(4)

WR....... Tate(3)
WR.......Edelman(7)
WR................................Price(3)

RB................................................................Vareen(2)
RB................................................................Ridley(3)

QB.................................................................Mallet(3)

I will go out on a limb and say Brady's job is secure....that leaves two slots that have not been addressed in recent drafts.. The production from this crew of draftees is mixed...3 big wins with Volmer, Gronk, Hernandez.....Spotty production from Tate and Edelman...Price is the unknown.

 

[The Scrizz]

Cannon, I dont see his fit into this high IQ system. If anything he is a LG.

What is there to suggest that Cannon isn't smart enough for this system? I understand that he's way bigger than we usually go but he seems like he moves very well for a guy that size. I don't get the IQ insinuation though.

 

[SirApropos]

What is there to suggest that Cannon isn't smart enough for this system? I understand that he's way bigger than we usually go but he seems like he moves very well for a guy that size. I don't get the IQ insinuation though.

Agreed. Not that it's the end all be all but Cannon's Wonderlic score was a 28 which is well above average.

Cannon had the highest score of all our draft picks that attended the combine. (Avg is 19)
Solder - 20
Dowling - 15
Vereen - 23
Ridley - 16
Mallett - 26
Cannon - 28

 

[randomk1]

What is there to suggest that Cannon isn't smart enough for this system? I understand that he's way bigger than we usually go but he seems like he moves very well for a guy that size. I don't get the IQ insinuation though.

I'm guessing it's because he is black.

 

[mgteich]

I'm not sure why everyone wants to wait to find an additional quality interior lineman.

QUESTION 1 Is Mankins in our plans for 2012?
ADDITIONAL INFO: COnnolly, Wendell and Koppen are all signed only through 2011.
============================================
If Mankins is not in our plans for 2012, how can it hurt to bring in a starting quality OG/C now? We have a 2011 open starting position at RG. We will have THREE open positions in 2012, with Cannon presumably taking one of the interior line positions. We will ahve an o[pen position even if we extend Koppen.

I agree on Mankins. For this season, he is all set. After that its an issue, but one that will be solved thru the draft or FA NEXT season. And again for all those who don't see the Pats actually forking out $10MM for him THIS season, its a lot more palatable if you think about it as about $5.5MM over the last 2 seasons. Don't forget he made less that a million last year, even though we got the better part of a season from him.

IMHO Koppen is the NEXT urgent replacement target in 2012

 

[Snake Eyes]

I'm guessing it's because he is black.

Why would you presume racism on his part?

 

[randomk1]

Why would you presume racism on his part?

It sounded alot like what they used to say about black QB's.

 

[Snake Eyes]

It sounded alot like what they used to say about black QB's.

Ok, so because of that now no one is allowed to question the intelligence of a black without being branded as a racist?

 

[mgteich]

Questioning a black player's intelligence without any backup whatsoever has a name. This is especially so when there is an accepted measure where the player has much higher intelligence scores than others.

Branding by others is not necessary. Statements speak for themselves. The one I like is when a white running back or a white wide receiver is called "deceptively fast" or "deceptively quick".

To think that there are no racist overtones in Boston fans discussing the intelligence of a black athlete on a Boston sports team is IMHO rather naive.

Ok, so because of that now no one is allowed to question the intelligence of a black without being branded as a racist?

 

[randomk1]

Branding by others is not necessary. Statements speak for themselves. The one I like is when a white running back or a white wide receiver is called "deceptively fast" or "deceptively quick".

Gritty, scrappy are also favourites of mine.

I personally don't have a problem with it. There's no denying that black dudes are faster and more explosive than white guys

 

[Snake Eyes]

Questioning a black player's intelligence without any backup whatsoever has a name. This is especially so when there is an accepted measure where the player has much higher intelligence scores than others.

Branding by others is not necessary. Statements speak for themselves. The one I like is when a white running back or a white wide receiver is called "deceptively fast" or "deceptively quick".

To think that there are no racist overtones in Boston fans discussing the intelligence of a black athlete on a Boston sports team is IMHO rather naive.

I never said there weren't racial overtones, just that it's a reach to automatically assume racism if someone questions the intelligance of a black person.

 

[eom]

I'm not so sure that i'd like to see Light as the starting LT....he is too big of a liability in pass protection imo. I wonder if he could be moved inside to RG. I just feel that if you draft a lineman #17 you'd expect him to start in week 1.

here are a couple questions I'd have --- would light sign with us to play guard or back up a rookie?
I understand he'd be doing it if he was under contract, but even if he'd rather stay with the pats don't you think he'd take a bigger money deal to start at tackle somewhere else?
considering the patriots roster situation I just don't see them offering him a lot to stay, even if both sides want a deal.

also, I think whoever said mankins could sign a one year deal is crazy, unless they're talking about the tag.
if you look at the evans money he's looking for, then consider that the cap could possibly shrink 10% since the patriots' previous offer, you have to wonder what mankins will end up being able to get from the pats if they offer him a longer term deal, or even what he could get from other teams.

this is just the year in year out nfl process of roster churn.