Patriots Draft Picks: Looking at the bigger picture

[tricktak]

-Nate Solder: I like I'm sure many other people was not crazy about this pick at first but have really come around on Solder. With Light a free agent, they need insurance and if they deem him ready maybe they'll make Solder the starting left tackle and let Light walk. Watching Light this year, he just can't seem to keep up with the speed rushers and Brady gets pressured a lot, especially in the Jets playoff game where Shaun Ellis abused Light the whole game, Solder is much quicker and will be way more effective against speed rushers plus Sebastian Vollmer is a pro bowl right tackle so if it aint broke don't fix it, which is why they drafted Solder.

-Ras-I Dowling: Dowling has been injured a lot but I really liked this pick. I love big physical corners like Dowling. You have the ability to put him on bigger receivers and be physical with them. Braylon Edwards bowled through some of the Patriots smaller corners this year, that won't happen with Dowling. If he plays well in training camp, he could earn the nickel job or even the starting and something a lot of people aren't talking about is this would allow Kyle Arrington to go back to the special teams gunner which is really what he's made for for this Patriots team.

-Shane Vereen and Stevan Ridley: There's isn't much not to like about both these picks and they may very well be our Gronkowski and Hernandez this year. They double dipped and got two tight ends and last years draft and it turned out great maybe the same will happen with Vereen. Some people have compared Vereen to Ray Rice and I think that is a fair comparison because their games are similar and they have a similar look, both are fairly short backs but they have a lot of bulk to them. The Ridley pick will surprise people. I love bruisers and this guy was one of the better ones in this draft, he runs and breaks tackles very well and looks similar on tape to Marion Barber. I wouldn't be surprised, if it' Ridley who's the Gronkowski and Vereen is our Hernandez. Ridley will surprise people.

 

[meggett]

Ive had some time to sit around and stew about this draft. I was pretty pissed about the 2 RB picks back to back. I'm now pretty happy about it. To be honest, looking back at our years past and RBs that have had success in NE, I think Ridley is gonna be a better back for us than Vereen. I dont think hes just a short yardage/goaline guy. Analysts are saying that Vereen is a potential Faulk replacement, but stop me if im wrong, isnt that what Woodhead is?? Ridley is a bruiser and can play all 3 downs. looking back at what Smith, Dillon, Morris have all done, he looks like he is the most likely to make an immediate impact. Plus it makes you think, they took Vereen in the 2nd round, ok mayock said he had him as a late 2nd early 3rd. but they prob pulled the trigger on Ridley early because of the trade with the Raiders and they really didnt want to miss out on him. Leads me to believe they wanted Ridley really badly. Up until the draft we didnt have a back like Ridley. have a feeling hes gonna be the best player selected in this draft for us...

 

[tricktak]

Ive had some time to sit around and stew about this draft. I was pretty pissed about the 2 RB picks back to back. I'm now pretty happy about it. To be honest, looking back at our years past and RBs that have had success in NE, I think Ridley is gonna be a better back for us than Vereen. I dont think hes just a short yardage/goaline guy. Analysts are saying that Vereen is a potential Faulk replacement, but stop me if im wrong, isnt that what Woodhead is?? Ridley is a bruiser and can play all 3 downs. looking back at what Smith, Dillon, Morris have all done, he looks like he is the most likely to make an immediate impact. Plus it makes you think, they took Vereen in the 2nd round, ok mayock said he had him as a late 2nd early 3rd. but they prob pulled the trigger on Ridley early because of the trade with the Raiders and they really didnt want to miss out on him. Leads me to believe they wanted Ridley really badly. Up until the draft we didnt have a back like Ridley. have a feeling hes gonna be the best player selected in this draft for us...

that's what I said at first but Vereen is much more explosive than Woodhead and Faulk.

 

[Synovia]

that's what I said at first but Vereen is much more explosive than Woodhead

Explain what you mean by explosive.


Because if it has anything to do with speed, its demonstratably untrue. Woodhead is drastically faster than Vereen.


Danny Woodhead:

5'7" 200lbs
40: 4.33
Vertical: 38.5
60 yard shuttle: 11.2

Shane Vereen
5'10 210lbs
40: 4.50
Vertical 34.0
60 yard shuttle: 11.6

So what exactly does explosive mean? I've got a feeling "explosive" is kind of the opposive as "gritty".

 

[BlueThunder]

I have a feeling Pats fans will like the new look offense when the Pats run the ball at opponents defenses......a pounder to get that tough couple yards and blocker to help protect Brady should it be a passing play.....can't help but think 2 back sets will be seen more often.....also could vision 4 TE's on the field at once....plenty of options

 

[manxman2601]

Explain what you mean by explosive.


Because if it has anything to do with speed, its demonstratably untrue. Woodhead is drastically faster than Vereen.


Danny Woodhead:

5'7" 200lbs
40: 4.33
Vertical: 38.5
60 yard shuttle: 11.2

Shane Vereen
5'10 210lbs
40: 4.50
Vertical 34.0
60 yard shuttle: 11.6

So what exactly does explosive mean? I've got a feeling "explosive" is kind of the opposive as "gritty".

I'm not taking issue with your numbers or writing in support of tricktacks "explosive" point but I think combine numbers are fairly irrelevant when it comes to running backs. The two most important traits an RB can have, assuming his measurables are OK, is vision and reaction times; the ability to identify a threat and the quickess of thought to avoid that threat. What little I've seen of Vereen suggests he has those although I'd like to see a bigger sample.

 

[Synovia]

I'm not taking issue with your numbers or writing in support of tricktacks "explosive" point but I think combine numbers are fairly irrelevant when it comes to running backs. The two most important traits an RB can have, assuming his measurables are OK, is vision and reaction times; the ability to identify a threat and the quickess of thought to avoid that threat. What little I've seen of Vereen suggests he has those although I'd like to see a bigger sample.

Then the writer should say he has better vision than Woodhead. Or that he identifies a threat better. Because he absolutely is not more explosive, unless explosive is code for black. (Like "Deceptively fast" is code for white)

 

[manxman2601]

Then the writer should say he has better vision than Woodhead. Or that he identifies a threat better. Because he absolutely is not more explosive, unless explosive is code for black. (Like "Deceptively fast" is code for white)

Or if you take a holistic view when defining "explosive" rather than the narrow measurables view. One can define an explosive player as one who is best able to transform a game in a moment, not just one who can jump a couple of inches higher than the other. I suppose if you want to bring race into it (not sure where that came from), at least your numbers prove "white men can jump".

 

[Synovia]

Or if you take a holistic view when defining "explosive" rather than the narrow measurables view. One can define an explosive player as one who is best able to transform a game in a moment, not just one who can jump a couple of inches higher than the other. I suppose if you want to bring race into it (not sure where that came from), at least your numbers prove "white men can jump".

And how would one define or quantify that? How would one qualify it. There's no information contained in that statement.

 

[manxman2601]

And how would one define or quantify that? How would one qualify it. There's no information contained in that statement.

Of course there is, it just can't be quantified as you say. It's the moment that lifts you out of your seat when you are watching a game, that makes you spill your beer or provokes an impromptu "woohoo". It's why we watch sport. We don't watch sport to say "ooh look, that guy jumps 2" higher than that other guy". It's why Mark Ingram was rated the best RB in the class despite his mediocre measurables and it's why Vereen is intriguing. Have a look at his youtube highlight film. There's a moment early on where, on a run, he does a 360 to avoid a defender. As he comes out of it, his foot placement is absolutely perfect enabling him to get back up to full speed almost immediately and extend the run. I think that's explosive, would have me out of my seat and leads to a game transforming 40yd TD run.

You're not wrong, in the draftnik world, explosivity has a narrow definition. But we are sports fans too and I think tricktack made that point from that perspective.

 

[sg14]

Someone else mentioned this somewhere but I am confused by the Solder pick when combined with the "new run offense". If we want to be more run dominate wouldn't you want to put Volmer on the left, then draft a run blocking ROT??

Seatte is trying to create a "beastly" running game by picking up Carpenter and Moffitt.

There will be several OT's to watch in the upcoming years to see who picked the best groceries.

I have a feeling Pats fans will like the new look offense when the Pats run the ball at opponents defenses......a pounder to get that tough couple yards and blocker to help protect Brady should it be a passing play.....can't help but think 2 back sets will be seen more often.....also could vision 4 TE's on the field at once....plenty of options

 

[Synovia]

Someone else mentioned this somewhere but I am confused by the Solder pick when combined with the "new run offense". If we want to be more run dominate wouldn't you want to put Volmer on the left, then draft a run blocking ROT??

Why do you think a 6'9 320lb OT who supposedly had 8% body fat, and could probably handle quite a bit more weight, won't be a good run blocker?

 

[mgteich]

I think that you will find that running behind the 673 pounds of Cannon and Vollmer will work out fine.

BTW, please list all the RG-RT combos that are more beastly than Vollmer and Cannon.

Someone else mentioned this somewhere but I am confused by the Solder pick when combined with the "new run offense". If we want to be more run dominate wouldn't you want to put Volmer on the left, then draft a run blocking ROT??

Seatte is trying to create a "beastly" running game by picking up Carpenter and Moffitt.

There will be several OT's to watch in the upcoming years to see who picked the best groceries.

 

[manxman2601]

Someone else mentioned this somewhere but I am confused by the Solder pick when combined with the "new run offense". If we want to be more run dominate wouldn't you want to put Volmer on the left, then draft a run blocking ROT??

Seatte is trying to create a "beastly" running game by picking up Carpenter and Moffitt.

There will be several OT's to watch in the upcoming years to see who picked the best groceries.

Brady still needs to be protected. Von Miller said that Solder was the best LT he came across, he also only gave up 5 sacks in 1400 passing plays. I think we'll be just fine.

 

[Sciz]

I think that you will find that running behind the 673 pounds of Cannon and Vollmer will work out fine.

BTW, please list all the RG-RT combos that are more beastly than Vollmer and Cannon.

The Pats need to take care of Mankins asap, because having him pulling to the right side that already has those two on it is completely unfair.

 

[BlueThunder]

The Pats need to take care of Mankins asap, because having him pulling to the right side that already has those two on it is completely unfair.

Amen Brother !

Use Light's salary to help re-sign Mankins..Please..

I have a feeling that the Pats newly retooled OL and running game will slow down any team's pass rush and make TB even more effective in the play action passing game..How much more can they score over last season's prolific offense is the question..

 

[patfanken]

-Nate Solder: I like I'm sure many other people was not crazy about this pick at first but have really come around on Solder. With Light a free agent, they need insurance and if they deem him ready maybe they'll make Solder the starting left tackle and let Light walk. Watching Light this year, he just can't seem to keep up with the speed rushers and Brady gets pressured a lot, especially in the Jets playoff game where Shaun Ellis abused Light the whole game, Solder is much quicker and will be way more effective against speed rushers plus Sebastian Vollmer is a pro bowl right tackle so if it aint broke don't fix it, which is why they drafted Solder.r

Its not about IF he's going to start. You pass up obvious needs an pick a guy you have rated at the top of the OL board if you don't expect him to be your starter. He's not there to sit a year at Scarneccia U. The only way I see Light coming back is to start at the other G and be LT insurance - I hope that's the case, but I don't think its likely.

-Ras-I Dowling: Dowling has been injured a lot but I really liked this pick. I love big physical corners like Dowling. You have the ability to put him on bigger receivers and be physical with them. Braylon Edwards bowled through some of the Patriots smaller corners this year, that won't happen with Dowling. If he plays well in training camp, he could earn the nickel job even the starting and something a lot of people aren't talking about is this would allow Kyle Arrington to go back to the special teams gunner which is really what he's made for for this Patriots team.

S, CB, Nickel all these terms have less meaning on the Pats. Its all about the sub packages and the match ups. Clearly he gives us a bigger presence in the DBfield - BOTH he and Boddin will give up better match ups against the increasing wave of bigger WRs coming into the league. So whether he lines up in the middle or the field or on the outside. If you want to call him a S or CB, go ahead, but it will be the matchups each week that will determine where he will play, not his position designation.

I also hope Butler will surprise many people here who might be selling him short after just 2 years. I think he'll be an improving contributor to the secondary. Especially now that it is less likely he'll be asked to match up on guys who are so much stronger than he is.

 

[jeffbiologist]

No Light, No Mankins.
LT Solder(cant sit a guy drafted this high)
LG Connolly-started more games than any G last year
C Koppen
RG Kaczur-easier adjustment from RT
RT Vollmer

If Cannon can play it would most likely be LG, easiest adjustment from LT. Connolly could be our future C too.

 

[jays52]

Explain what you mean by explosive.


Because if it has anything to do with speed, its demonstratably untrue. Woodhead is drastically faster than Vereen.


Danny Woodhead:

5'7" 200lbs
40: 4.33
Vertical: 38.5
60 yard shuttle: 11.2

Shane Vereen
5'10 210lbs
40: 4.50
Vertical 34.0
60 yard shuttle: 11.6

So what exactly does explosive mean? I've got a feeling "explosive" is kind of the opposive as "gritty".

The eye in the sky don't lie. Woodie's a hell of a player but he sure as hell doesn't run a 4.33 on the field. He's also not nearly that explosive coming out of cuts. That's understandable considering his size and build. His frame simply can't hold the kind of muscle mass required to have that kind of plant and burst strength while still being athletic enough to play at the NFL level.

Vereen on the other hand looks like he runs about a 4.4 on tape. He's the best slasher coming out of college and his cut burst is obscene. He's the best zone back I've seen in a while who also has the patience and power to succeed in the directional game.

Pro-days and combines are nice but ultimately tape is all that matters.

 

[jays52]

The Pats need to take care of Mankins asap, because having him pulling to the right side that already has those two on it is completely unfair.

Yup. They should have the best power in the game. Combine that with the wham, crack, and jet cracks in the TE game and they'll have a devastating run game.