Can we now stop with: "being 6 million under the cap is wonderful"?

[MDD]

You can throw me any statistic you want. yesterday I saw a team that lacked talented depth in key positions.

2001 was a once-in-a-lifetime season, yet this front office thinks it can follow the same model, using retreads and castoffs to plug holes.

In 2003 and 2004 we made some wise investments that paid off. Heading 2003 was Harrison, who had three less years on him. Heading 2004 were Dillon (ditto) and Colvin (who was signed the previous season but whose first full season was '04).

In contrast, in the last two years, the front office has reacted as if we needed another cap purge like in 2000. Yet we didn't. The FA signings the last two seasons have been of the "band-aid" variety. The reliance on Chad Scott, Heath Evans, and Monty Biesel bring back memories of Fred Coleman, Bert Emmanuel, and Matt Stevens.

Injuries are a factor, but at least on the defensive side, when the 34 year old Harrison gets back he's going to be the 34-year old Harrison. What other "major" injury problems have we had? You can only blame injuries so much for us executing like crap (what, you thought Seau was going to last 16 games playing close to full time?).

You can beat chokers like Kordell Stewart (2001) with band-aids. To beat LT, Rivers, and Gates, or Manning, Harrison and Wayne, you need talent. We don't have enough of it.

 

[satz]

are you really dumb or poking this as fun on other people:bricks:

I say their is a reason you did not get scott vp job ...

 

[Pats726]

You can throw me any statistic you want. yesterday I saw a team that lacked talented depth in key positions.

2001 was a once-in-a-lifetime season, yet this front office thinks it can follow the same model, using retreads and castoffs to plug holes.

In 2003 and 2004 we made some wise investments that paid off. Heading 2003 was Harrison, who had three less years on him. Heading 2004 were Dillon (ditto) and Colvin (who was signed the previous season but whose first full season was '04).

In contrast, in the last two years, the front office has reacted as if we needed another cap purge like in 2000. Yet we didn't. The FA signings the last two seasons have been of the "band-aid" variety. The reliance on Chad Scott, Heath Evans, and Monty Biesel bring back memories of Fred Coleman, Bert Emmanuel, and Matt Stevens.

Injuries are a factor, but at least on the defensive side, when the 34 year old Harrison gets back he's going to be the 34-year old Harrison. What other "major" injury problems have we had? You can only blame injuries so much for us executing like crap.

You can beat chokers like Kordell Stewart (2001) with band-aids. To beat LT, Rivers, and Gates you need talent. We don't have enough of it.

Dorry..but naysayers like you see what you wish to see//amd are closer to
fair weather fans.. who jump onn and off the banddwagon.. who have NO perspective more than a few years....you are laughable with your criticism... THREE lombaedis.. and a dolt like you..thinks he knows best...it's teh spoiled like you who faile tp appreciate anything ...who would have turned your back on this team in an instant..if they had the front office like they had in MOST of the Patriot years. But again..you have the perspective of a 5 year old//What this FO has done has veen remarkable..yes..I am sure they have made mistakes..as a;; have...Go gollow the Zonas..the Lions and opther l;osing franchises and maybe you will appreciate all they have done....Otherwise your opinion is worth little..a front runner like u will just jump to another team..while it is on top...

 

[MDD]

Dorry..but naysayers like you see what you wish to see//amd are closer to
fair weather fans.. who jump onn and off the banddwagon.. who have NO perspective more than a few years....you are laughable with your criticism... THREE lombaedis.. and a dolt like you..thinks he knows best...it's teh spoiled like you who faile tp appreciate anything ...who would have turned your back on this team in an instant..if they had the front office like they had in MOST of the Patriot years. But again..you have the perspective of a 5 year old//What this FO has done has veen remarkable..yes..I am sure they have made mistakes..as a;; have...Go gollow the Zonas..the Lions and opther l;osing franchises and maybe you will appreciate all they have done....Otherwise your opinion is worth little..a front runner like u will just jump to another team..while it is on top...

OK Pollyana.

Maybe I think this team can do BETTER than Arizona and the Lions.

People like you always point to the other extreme to make your argument. And anyone with criticism is labeled a "bandwagoner" or "froont runner". It's a malinformed comment.

How about somewhere in the middle? Is that too much to ask from what I still admit is a model organization?

Yeah, I appreciate that Pat Sullivan or Sam Jankovitch are not running the show. That doesn't insulate everyone else from criticism.

 

[Willie55]

You can throw me any statistic you want. yesterday I saw a team that lacked talented depth in key positions.

2001 was a once-in-a-lifetime season, yet this front office thinks it can follow the same model, using retreads and castoffs to plug holes.

In 2003 and 2004 we made some wise investments that paid off. Heading 2003 was Harrison, who had three less years on him. Heading 2004 were Dillon (ditto) and Colvin (who was signed the previous season but whose first full season was '04).

In contrast, in the last two years, the front office has reacted as if we needed another cap purge like in 2000. Yet we didn't. The FA signings the last two seasons have been of the "band-aid" variety. The reliance on Chad Scott, Heath Evans, and Monty Biesel bring back memories of Fred Coleman, Bert Emmanuel, and Matt Stevens.

Injuries are a factor, but at least on the defensive side, when the 34 year old Harrison gets back he's going to be the 34-year old Harrison. What other "major" injury problems have we had? You can only blame injuries so much for us executing like crap (what, you thought Seau was going to last 16 games playing close to full time?).

You can beat chokers like Kordell Stewart (2001) with band-aids. To beat LT, Rivers, and Gates, or Manning, Harrison and Wayne, you need talent. We don't have enough of it.

This team is 9-3, battling for the top spot in the tougher of the 2 conferences.

This team has the most depth of any team in league. Any other team that has faced this amount of injuries would have wilted out of the playoff picture along time ago.

 

[Miguel]

What would you have done differently???

 

[JR4]

You can throw me any statistic you want. yesterday I saw a team that lacked talented depth in key positions.

................you need talent. We don't have enough of it.

Well that is always the case. No team ever has enough talent.

If there was something they could have done with that 6M, maybe your
right. But remember you now have the advantage of hind sight.
PATs roster has been hit with injuries.

What if
Rodney, Seau, Wilson, Tebucky, Gardner, Mitchell, Yates, Mills, Jackson

had stayed healthy? That is a lot of talent you didn't see on the field yesterday.

Could they have done better? Maybe. But who was availale and how much
better would the team be by bringing some high priced players?

Besides the 6M may be used
somehow to retain talent PATs have. J.Kraft seemed to indicate the
season isn't over yet and that CAP space can still be used.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

The Pat's went Marquise Hill, Gus Scott, Dexter Reid, in rounds 2,3,4 in 2004 and none of those guys amounted to anything and the holes from those missteps are hurting us right now. Three fairly high defensive players who all whiffed. Plus Klecko and Clairidge couldn't play LB like they hoped but picks that low are really crap shoots. It's the 2004 draft that is hurting us now more than the failure to sign big dollar FA's.

( Please don't attack me for not realizing how successful the Pats have been in the draft, etc. I'm only making the point that if even one of these guys had turned out to be an impact player ala Hobbs or Samuel, we'd be in better shape now and their success might have changed how we drafted the next two years - meaning maybe a high pick on a LB)

 

[MDD]

( Please don't attack me for not realizing how successful the Pats have been in the draft, etc.

It is unfair to attack a poster just because we're not 100% on-board with every move this organization has made.

Look at the original title of my post. You CAN'T carry over cap space from year to year Why are we afraid of USING it?

You don't turn into the 2004 Titans or 2002 49ers by overpaying one or two guys, you just don't. If this front-office can be criticized for ANYTHING it's the all or nothing approach they take to managing the cap. That's my point.

 

[MDD]

The Pat's went Marquise Hill, Gus Scott, Dexter Reid, in rounds 2,3,4 in 2004 and none of those guys amounted to anything and the holes from those missteps are hurting us right now.

Excellent point, but again, you compensate for misses in the mid rounds of the draft by signing "B" level free agents, not scrap heap free agents.

 

[Miguel]

The Pat's went Marquise Hill, Gus Scott, Dexter Reid, in rounds 2,3,4 in 2004 and none of those guys amounted to anything and the holes from those missteps are hurting us right now. Three fairly high defensive players who all whiffed. Plus Klecko and Clairidge couldn't play LB like they hoped but picks that low are really crap shoots. It's the 2004 draft that is hurting us now more than the failure to sign big dollar FA's.

Excellent point.

 

[DarrylS]

What would you have done differently???

Note this a viable question, with no response, as much as I would like to see some of the high priced "sexy" talent, this team is deep and rooted in the same basic philosophy. Take the Branch sitz for example, everyone loved him, until he breached his contract. If the Pats took another stance than what they did, then you would have had 52 guys in the locker room asking why was he treated differently? As much as I do not like everything I see in this team, we are 9-3 atop our very tough division.

 

[MDD]

The primary thing I would have done differently? If you're going to go old at key positions in the defensive backfield and linebacker then sign a lot of them.

You swallow your pride and bring back McGinest and Law. God forbid: 1.) you overpay someone by 20%, or 2.) you're only FOUR million under the cap.

 

[Gumby]

Look the extra cap room is there cause they set it aside to hold onto 1 of their own FAs and sign one of the top CB FAs out there. That was 2 of the top 10 FAs that were available last season. There weren't that many good FAs available due to the big cap increase; most teams could afford to re-sign their own.

The facts are that one deliberately spurned us and violated a contract because he knew he could get more $ than he is legitimately worth (& faster) with another team and the other shopped around and was offered equivalent money but either thought he would get more upfront or would be able to work less hard for his money under Hermie.

While we can all lament that the money is there; the Pats did the next best thing and started working on next years FAs and creatively finding ways to pay down the cap this year to create cap reductions in the out years.

You only get a 53 man roster in the end. And don't forget that one of the reasons BB is really pissed at Mangini for leaving him is no doubt that he is stealing from some of the same pool of players BB would otherwise be keeping on the shadow roster or have in here for depth (Poteat anyone.). Add RAC out there in Cleveland and Tuna in Dallas looking for 3-4 players too; and the market for "Patriots type" guys has gotten a lot tougher.

I don't think it is pollyannish to say its ok to have cap room. It certainly beats the alternative - to be in cap hell for 2-3 years. I don't think anyone is saying it is a viable or preferred strategy long term. No one seriously doubts that the Patriots are going to have spent less than the cap at the end of the day ( IMHO ).

They just wont overspend above their model. A 9-3 record with a mile long injury list as someone else mentioned is proof that it is a viable model for consistent success. Whether it will be viable for consistent EXCELLENCE is TBD. We can only hope.

 

[Willie55]

The primary thing I would have done differently? If you're going to go old at key positions in the defensive backfield and linebacker then sign a lot of them.

You swallow your pride and bring back McGinest and Law. God forbid: 1.) you overpay someone by 20%, or 2.) you're only FOUR million under the cap.

You can only have 53 players on the roster.

You overpay one guy by 20%, the other 52 will expect to be overpayed by 20% also. The Patriots are just like any other work place. When the players see others making a disproportionate amount of money, they want their share also.

If you want to be a wheeler and dealer with no cap space left, become a Redskins fan.

 

[Clonamery]

The primary thing I would have done differently? If you're going to go old at key positions in the defensive backfield and linebacker then sign a lot of them.

You swallow your pride and bring back McGinest and Law. God forbid: 1.) you overpay someone by 20%, or 2.) you're only FOUR million under the cap.

You've learned nothing.

 

[RayClay]

I agree.

It's time we admit this stockpiling picks and watching the budget just doesn't cut it.

To be a consistent winner you need to be a playah in free agency.

Our model should be the Redskins. Obviously we don't deserve some of our wins, but I don't think the league will allow us to give them back.

Hopefully we can accomplish the goal of spending as much money on as few players as possible before we waste our time on all those extra draft picks we have.

After all, the draft is just a crapshoot as opposed to the guaranteed return for high priced free agents.

Great post.

 

[RayClay]

By the way, we need to immediately double the salaries of Chad Scott and Artrell Hawkins. At least.

Everybody knows you can't get veteran cornerbacks , (who can also play safety), without breaking the bank.

They're going to realize this soon also and revert to the type of washed up hacks you can expect to find as street free agents.

 

[MDD]

AGAIN, why is it all or nothing with some of you?

 

[MDD]

By the way, we need to immediately double the salaries of Chad Scott and Artrell Hawkins. At least.

Everybody knows you can't get veteran cornerbacks , (who can also play safety), without breaking the bank.

They're going to realize this soon also and revert to the type of washed up hacks you can expect to find as street free agents.

180 degrees from what I said, but thanks.