Was there simply no outstanding DE for our system in this draft?

[RayClay]

That's my conclusion. Outside of Dareus (not a fit, but likely unattainable) any 3-4 DE "candidate" was available at our pick or with a possible trade up based on our ammunition.

The way I like to put it is, BB doesn't "invent" players, in other words, if the guy there is not the player/value we wish was there, we pass.

The prototype, of course is Seymour, a 6th overall. We saw Warren as a NT/LDE playing the run and traded up. We got dumb ass lucky with Wilfork dropping and he turned his outstanding athleticism toward the brutal pounding of the NT position.

So, no big time fit, no 1st round DE.

Thoughts?

[feel free to throw in 5 tech, 2 gap or other terms i don't use because I'm not comfortable with them]

 

[BadMoFo]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

I doubt it, there are other teams that run the 3-4 and they're still drafting.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

That's my conclusion. Outside of Dareus (not a fit, but likely unattainable) any 3-4 DE "candidate" was available at our pick or with a possible trade up based on our ammunition.

The way I like to put it is, BB doesn't "invent" players, in other words, if the guy there is not the player/value we wish was there, we pass.

The prototype, of course is Seymour, a 6th overall. We saw Warren as a NT/LDE playing the run and traded up. We got dumb ass lucky with Wilfork dropping and he turned his outstanding athleticism toward the brutal pounding of the NT position.

So, no big time fit, no 1st round DE.

Thoughts?

[feel free to throw in 5 tech, 2 gap or other terms i don't use because I'm not comfortable with them]

We're not getting a prototype. There may not be any in the draft. But, Jarvis Jenkins is 6'4" 309lb 5.03. He might be a year from a good weight program from being a starter. I was impressed with him when I watched Bowers. Can prob get him with our pick if we move back some.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

I doubt it, there are other teams that run the 3-4 and they're still drafting.

If you think that's true, who did we pass on? (including Watt and Fairley)

They aren't (3-4 systems) all the same and other coaches/gms don't have the discipline to resist guys where there is a need.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

We're not getting a prototype. There may not be any in the draft. But, Jarvis Jenkins is 6'4" 309lb 5.03. He might be a year from a good weight program from being a starter. I was impressed with him when I watched Bowers. Can prob get him with our pick if we move back some.

Spending a 2nd is a lot different than a first on a guy that "might" grow into the role. That would characterize Brace I guess (for LDE [Ty's]) role, though.

Of course I'm not expecting a Seymour clone, that's why he was 6th overall. Hopefully Jenkins, or someone else can hold down the spot, maybe in a rotation.

I don't know college personnel well enough to judge, which is why I appreciate some names thrown out with day 2 ahead.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

If you think that's true, who did we pass on? (including Watt and Fairley)

They aren't (3-4 systems) all the same and other coaches/gms don't have the discipline to resist guys where there is a need.

Watt went at 11 and Fairley went at 13. You can't pass on guys you never got the opportunity to take. The Pats DID pass on Cam Jordan, Wilkerson, and Cam Heyward though. What does that tell us? Most likely they feel there's equivalent value to those guys in round 2. Thus BB felt comfortable trading back in the draft and picking up extra value for 2012.

 

[skinnydog]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

Well, we'll know about Wilkerson who may end up opposite Solder in a lot of games in the years to come

 

[andrewgarrr]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

Watt. I think the agent thing was a huge issue.

 

[eom]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

I think it comes down to the fact that you can only draft one guy with one pick.
just because they liked this guy and felt the need for OT doesn't mean that there were no other players they liked or positions they'd draft.
maybe you'll see them draft DE in a half hour.

they saw a guy they liked at a position of need, so they took him.
and I think OT outweighs DE in significance.

 

[patfanken]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

If you think that's true, who did we pass on? (including Watt and Fairley)

They aren't (3-4 systems) all the same and other coaches/gms don't have the discipline to resist guys where there is a need.

To answer your first question, EVIDENTLY. But this quote should be highlighted. ALL 3-4 base systems are NOT the same. What we do, the Jets do, the Steelers do, are ALL vastly different both in design and philosophy, yet for some reason the talking heads seem to lump all 3-4 base systems together, when nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[BadMoFo]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

If you think that's true, who did we pass on? (including Watt and Fairley)

They aren't (3-4 systems) all the same and other coaches/gms don't have the discipline to resist guys where there is a need.

Are you saying that no one in the draft has the size of some of our current defensive linemen.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

Watt went at 11 and Fairley went at 13. You can't pass on guys you never got the opportunity to take. The Pats DID pass on Cam Jordan, Wilkerson, and Cam Heyward though. What does that tell us? Most likely they feel there's equivalent value to those guys in round 2. Thus BB felt comfortable trading back in the draft and picking up extra value for 2012.

If that's a franchise player, possible all pro I think you could make that trade.

Trading up to 3 would be really costly.

Remember, I said outstanding, and we did have lots of ammunition.

If you're saying one of those is the guy, which one?

 

[RayClay]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

Are you saying that no one in the draft has the size of some of our current defensive linemen.

Are you saying any person of a certain size is worth drafting in the first round of the NFL draft?

 

[RayClay]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

Watt. I think the agent thing was a huge issue.

He seems like the only possibility. Fairley dropped, but I wasn't hearing good things about his willingness to do what a 3-4 end in our system is required to do.

 

[eagle eye]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

Well there is always the possibility that BB found somebody thats a good fit that is not rated that highly by others.

Another possibility would be that we trade the 33rd pick for a 2012 first round pick and then are in a position to make a big trade whenever that can be done.

 

[reflexblue]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

Apparently not, maybe it would just be easier to change the system (penetrating 3-4) than to find players able to play in this one, read and react.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

Apparently not, maybe it would just be easier to change the system (penetrating 3-4) than to find players able to play in this one, read and react.

Interesting take, though i doubt it. Maybe they can "build" one from among a bunch of FAs, low round picks in a rotation.

 

[skinnydog]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

To answer your first question, EVIDENTLY. But this quote should be highlighted. ALL 3-4 base systems are NOT the same. What we do, the Jets do, the Steelers do, are ALL vastly different both in design and philosophy, yet for some reason the talking heads seem to lump all 3-4 base systems together, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Obviously the Pats simply run a defensive scheme that no players fit into. I say just play 11 cornerbacks.

 

[Frick]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

Who needs a DE? Or an O Lineman for that matter? When you can get a CB that never gets hurt and 2 RBs who are destined for the HofF!

 

[Mike in 333]

Re: Was there simply no outstandig DE for our system in this draft?

At the risk of stating the obvious, Belichick and Caserio apparently didn't see any DE's who either were worth trading up for or who were worth drafting over other players. I don't think this should be a big surprise. BB has never really seemed to subscribe to the necessity of having a premier pass rusher. Even with Seymour, rushing the passer was secondary to containing the play. In our bend but don't break style defense, the opposing team's QB is almost invited to get the pass off and, in theory, our DB's minimize any yardage gain and look for the opportunity to force a turnover.
It seems that whatever pressure Banta-Cain, Nincovich, Cunningham and maybe Spikes are able to apply is sufficient, as he sees it and it's up to the safeties and cornerbacks to limit the damage.
I'm not sure if it's the lack of a DE for our system, I think it's more that Belichick just doesn't see the same problem that most of the rest of the world sees.
Since I'm a long time worshipper at the temple of Bill Belichick I've learned to live with it but it sure makes watching some games excruciatingly painful.