Complaining about the draft: some perspectives

[Patspsycho]

Noticed a lot of whining and complaints about what we did tonight. Very few understand the value of piling up 2nd round picks (there is a huge dropoff between 1st round and 2nd round salaries).

Consider this:

Pats can now conduct a Mallett-Dalton-Kaepernick auction | ProFootballTalk

Note some of the comments:

Belichick…you crafty bastard.

At some point, the New England Patriots are going to have so many draft picks saved up, they’ll just become a bank.

Teams have to stop dealing with the Patriots

They’re like a credit card company. U get a little something now, but they end up with everything.

Stop trading with them already!!!!!!

Apparently the grass does seem greener on the other side of the fence to them. If only they knew there are an equal amount of whiners on this side of the fence.

 

[strongside]

Noticed a lot of whining and complaints about what we did tonight. Very few understand the value of piling up 2nd round picks (there is a huge dropoff between 1st round and 2nd round salaries).

Consider this:

Pats can now conduct a Mallett-Dalton-Kaepernick auction | ProFootballTalk

Note some of the comments:







Apparently the grass does seem greener on the other side of the fence to them. If only they knew there are an equal amount of whiners on this side of the fence.

But wouldn't it have made more sense to draft at 28 if this 33 pick is going to get a 1st rd pick in a better spot then the one we got from NO? The teams that need a QB all suck and will next year. Plus you get a better player at 28.

 

[WhiZa]

But wouldn't it have made more sense to draft at 28 if this 33 pick is going to get a 1st rd pick in a better spot then the one we got from NO? The teams that need a QB all suck and will next year. Plus you get a better player at 28.

You don't know that until a team calls you like NO did at 28. They were enamored with Ingram, but not as much as someone would be with Mallet or Dalton.

 

[Ring 6]

But wouldn't it have made more sense to draft at 28 if this 33 pick is going to get a 1st rd pick in a better spot then the one we got from NO? The teams that need a QB all suck and will next year. Plus you get a better player at 28.

Every pick has its own value. If what you are offered is more valuable than the guy you will pick, then you trade it.
If we get a later 2nd plus a 2012 #1 for 33, then we win twice.
I don't know why we would pass up a good deal, just because we think we will get another good deal.

 

[strongside]

You don't know that until a team calls you like NO did at 28. They were enamored with Ingram, but not as much as someone would be with Mallet or Dalton.

I would agree and I think BB knew at 28 that there was nobody knocking w/ a 1st rder for 33 which is why he pulled the trigger. I could live with that explanation.

 

[Gwedd]

Every pick has its own value. If what you are offered is more valuable than the guy you will pick, then you trade it.
If we get a later 2nd plus a 2012 #1 for 33, then we win twice.
I don't know why we would pass up a good deal, just because we think we will get another good deal.

This. It also depends upon whether we want anyone that's available at that slot. Discretion is often the better part of any transaction.

 

[DaBruinz]

people seem to forget a few things:

1) Teams have to want to make a trade.

2) I am 100% confident that the NO trade was the best one the Pats were presented with at 28.

3) Many people stated that the Pats would probably get more for the 33 pick than they would for the 28 pick because of the change in the draft format and with the numerous QB needy teams. And with Ryan Mallett on the board, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Pats move down just 5-6 slots while picking up a 2012 2nd round pick also. And that pick could end up being in the top 10 of the 2nd round again.

 

[Patspsycho]

But wouldn't it have made more sense to draft at 28 if this 33 pick is going to get a 1st rd pick in a better spot then the one we got from NO? The teams that need a QB all suck and will next year. Plus you get a better player at 28.

The top few picks of the 2nd round are still considered first round talent but with the value of 2nd round salary, so it is not necessarily true that a player at #28 would be better than #33 or even #41. The players we are targeting are apparently still available, if we traded out.

If we trade out of 33, we will only go down a few picks (e.g., Bengals, Cards, Titans, Redskins all of who are looking for QB's). We will still have a 2nd round plus a combination of numerical valued picks, either for this year or 2012.

Whether or not teams who want a QB suck is of no concern to us.

 

[Ring 6]

Noticed a lot of whining and complaints about what we did tonight. Very few understand the value of piling up 2nd round picks (there is a huge dropoff between 1st round and 2nd round salaries).

Consider this:

Pats can now conduct a Mallett-Dalton-Kaepernick auction | ProFootballTalk

Note some of the comments:







Apparently the grass does seem greener on the other side of the fence to them. If only they knew there are an equal amount of whiners on this side of the fence.

Thats one of the problems with a board like this and the draft.
Everyone reads and studies and decides who they want to pick, and get all excited that they could be right. Then they forget that they are basing their opinion on about 4% of the information BB has at his disposal, so when they get upset because he had the chance to draft 'their guy' he must be an idiot.

We actually have people posting on this board that think Bill Belichick used the 17th pick in the draft on a guy who is a project impliyng he is a longshot to start in the league. As if BB doesnt have a clue what the 17thy pick should get you.
Another poster said the team got no better today, after picking the 17th best player in the draft.
Its too much emotion and not enough thought.

 

[PatsDeb]

Every year it's the same. We fans hope for a big splash and we are underwhelmed when the Pats pick somebody that all the "experts" have in the 2nd or 3rd round and that no one was thinking about. Tomorrow the Pats will be in the "reach" or "draft losers" column of all the "experts" Two years from now they will be in the "steal of the draft" column and the player at issue will be in the "perennial pro bowler" category.

I know this is not exactly how it goes, but this is what happens a lot. Somehow it always works out, at least in the BB era. Let's see how it goes.

 

[Patspsycho]

Every year it's the same. We fans hope for a big splash and we are underwhelmed when the Pats pick somebody that all the "experts" have in the 2nd or 3rd round and that no one was thinking about. Tomorrow the Pats will be in the "reach" or "draft losers" column of all the "experts" Two years from now they will be in the "steal of the draft" column and the player at issue will be in the "perennial pro bowler" category.

I know this is not exactly how it goes, but this is what happens a lot. Somehow it always works out, at least in the BB era. Let's see how it goes.

Nate Solder was the 2nd highest rated OT. Some teams, including the Colts had him at #1.

 

[DaBruinz]

The top few picks of the 2nd round are still considered first round talent but with the value of 2nd round salary, so it is not necessarily true that a player at #28 would be better than #33 or even #41. The players we are targeting are apparently still available, if we traded out.

If we trade out of 33, we will only go down a few picks (e.g., Bengals, Cards, Titans, Redskins all of who are looking for QB's). We will still have a 2nd round plus a combination of numerical valued picks, either for this year or 2012.

Whether or not teams who want a QB suck is of no concern to us.

Titans took Jake Locker so they won't be looking to add another.. But in general you hit the nail on the head.

 

[Ring 6]

This. It also depends upon whether we want anyone that's available at that slot. Discretion is often the better part of any transaction.

Not that we dont want many players at that slot, but we don't want them that much more than who we can get with the trade down.
We would have taken every single player drafted today. We don't pass on a pick becuase 'we don't like him'. We pass on a pick because we don't think it is the best use of the asset.
BB would love to have Ingram. He would make the team, he would play a big role. But, the improvement he would give to the franchise is less than what BB expects to get from the 56th PLUS the Saints 2012 #1. It really is that simply.

 

[Ring 6]

Every year it's the same. We fans hope for a big splash and we are underwhelmed when the Pats pick somebody that all the "experts" have in the 2nd or 3rd round and that no one was thinking about. Tomorrow the Pats will be in the "reach" or "draft losers" column of all the "experts" Two years from now they will be in the "steal of the draft" column and the player at issue will be in the "perennial pro bowler" category.

I know this is not exactly how it goes, but this is what happens a lot. Somehow it always works out, at least in the BB era. Let's see how it goes.

That is not the case with Solder. He was picked right about where he was rated. Gosselin had him 13th. Reportedly the Giants were taking him at 19 if we didnt. The Colts were definitely taking him at 22.
There is absolutely no evidence that he was rated a 2nd or 3rd rounder. He just wasnt a name that novice draft followers heard a lot of.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Titans took Jake Locker so they won't be looking to add another.. But in general you hit the nail on the head.

Jake Locker is my EARLY guess and nominee for Rookie Of The Year.

If the Titans add a top caliber WR,I see Locker becoming a pretty good QB at the upper level.

I liked him in College and obviously the Titans loved his play enough to take him over Gabbert...a great move by the Titans IMO

 

[mgteich]

Almost everyone expect a trade from 33.

I suspect that many folks are surprised that Belichick had Wilkerson and Heyward rated so low that neither was worth the equivalent of two 2nd rounders, or weren't worth the 28th pick in the draft. The 2012 pick could have been secured tomorrow. So, the issue for me, and most, is not that we traded down. That's fine. The issue is the ratings of Wilkerson and Heyward. As often happens, we posters (and the media and a couple of teams that picked right after us) rate players higher than belichick does. Obviously he has much more info. But, it isn't as if these players weren't immediately snapped up by the jets and the steelers.

 

[Keyser Söze]

I find it easier to complain...fire youself BB.

 

[Brady_12]

I find it easier to complain...fire youself BB.

I'm assuming that your tongue was planted firmly in cheek when you posted this, which is why I "liked" it.

 

[Patspsycho]

Almost everyone expect a trade from 33.

I suspect that many folks are surprised that Belichick had Wilkerson and Heyward rated so low that neither was worth the equivalent of two 2nd rounders, or weren't worth the 28th pick in the draft. The 2012 pick could have been secured tomorrow. So, the issue for me, and most, is not that we traded down. That's fine. The issue is the ratings of Wilkerson and Heyward. As often happens, we posters (and the media and a couple of teams that picked right after us) rate players higher than belichick does. Obviously he has much more info. But, it isn't as if these players weren't immediately snapped up by the jets and the steelers.

I am not a fan of either players. As I've mentioned elsewhere, Wilkerson has a questionable work ethic, and Heyward is not a good threat from the edge which is where he would have to project to if he were in our system.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Jake Locker is my EARLY guess and nominee for Rookie Of The Year.

I see Jake Locker as having a great chance to be a bust for the Titans. His lack of accuracy at the college level will continue to follow him into the pros.

And what kind of environment is there in Tennessee where there's a lot of turnover and you put the whole future of a team on one kid and ask him to be the savior? It's a lot to ask and I doubt he can handle it. Vince Young couldn't. The only thing Locker has going for him there is a 2k back to hand off to. But the 2k back isn't going to do anything to fix his accuracy issues. Accuracy issues turn into interceptions at the NFL level.

As far as the auction of pick #33, I think the Redskins are the most likely to bite. They have two 2nd round picks this year, so they can afford to move one of them off plus future pick ammo to acquire #33. They'll probably go with Dalton or Kaepernick. Mallett I think has dropped himself out of the conversation with his character issues. But it doesn't matter who the Redskins take at #33. As long as the Pats 'win' the trade and stock up on more picks. They can still get a good player at #41 or later in this draft.

I am not a fan of either players. As I've mentioned elsewhere, Wilkerson has a questionable work ethic, and Heyward is not a good threat from the edge which is where he would have to project to if he were in our system.

Wilkerson is very RAW technique-wise and played against a low level of competition. Heyward only really showed up for his Bowl game and was very pedestrian before that. Pats stocked up on value on passed on one guy who is unlikely to contribute for a while and another guy who only shows up when he wants to.