Was there a defensive problem except on passing downs?

[supafly]

Fair enough. Very reasonable retort. I could see them moving one of the three Safeties if this was a normal year. I think BB might have more appreciation for Merriweather than we think. I believe he had most of the Safety snaps. He does show those flashes but inconsistent to say the least. Sanders had a good year for him. He is still the weakest of the three in ability. If he is smartest that is all well and good but in the end he costs the Pats $3m in 2011. Way too much for a third string Safety. In a normal year you might shop him or cut him to be resigned as a solid backup but too much money against the CAP. I think Chung has the most upside. He will get better.

I would have loved to see Champ Bailey here as a Safety. That did not work out. I think Weddle can be had. Is he perfect? No but he is a great DB QB as is Sanders but more talented. He had 96 tackles last year and had his best defending year of 10 P.Def. The problem is he costs us a high pick. Now it appears that the Chargers are eyeing our #28. They have #50 and #61. Maybe #50 and Weddle for #28? That is all of course pending CBA stuff.

The FA I would consider most is Michael Huff. He was a high pick and got bounced from CB to Safety for years. He was pretty bad his first few season but it was confusing. The Raiders did not use him right. He had his best year last year and is only 28. He had 94 tackles, 4 sacks, 3 FF and 3 Ints. He is 6'1" and 205. He ran a 4.3 in the combine, had 21 reps and a 40.5 vertical. This is what was said: "As a free safety, he brings excellent playmaking ability and would be a great cover man for any secondary". He does not cost us a pick.

My best option would be to pry Adrian Wilson from the Cardinals. He is one of the most underrated S in the NFL. A little older at 31 but the closest we will get to that Rodney Harrison type.

As far as a Draft pick, I do not want a Safety on the board in this class. I like big CB Dowling at 6'1" and 200lbs with excellent ball skills and a great tackler. He can cover. Seems like the right resume. Make him our FS with Chung.

If we Draft a CB how about Bodden as a Safety? Perhaps Arrington? We need a cover Safety.
DW Toys

I'm all for more competition at any position--that's without question. If Belichick feels as though Weddle or Huff can make a better impact, then I will be the first to celebrate, for it will certainly give the position more competition and also hopefully improve it. I still do not feel as though it is a position of dire need, and I think I will always hope for improvement from the LB's first, before anything else.

I too would love A.Wilson, and always have. I would've loved to somehow pry him from Arizona in 2009, but I believe they re-upped him to a very nice deal. I'm not sure about him being that 'under rated' as you say. In my opinion (and many others) he is surely a top 5 safety in the league, definitely top 10 at worst. That would've been a blockbuster signing, and likely one that we wouldn't have pursued, considering that is basically Wilfork money. He will not be a free agent again until 2014, and by then will be pushing 35. He has certainly been a top tier safety for Arizona, and his contract was a 5 yr extension worth about 37+ million, even higher including basic incentives. That's about 8 million per, pretty darn good for a safety--especially since the projected transition tag number is 7.4 million, with the franchise tag being about 8.8 million. Adrian Wilson is in the top 10 paid safety category, and that is even considering he signed his extension 2 full years ago. Not too shabby. He would be the immediate answer, but sadly is nothing more than another one of our pipe dreams.

Weddle is likely another wish that will not come true, but he'd definitely make the position pretty solid obviously. I am not sure about Huff, as I know I wanted him coming out of school, and he went high, but I also know that he had a couple of rough years there too. I think he did improve for sure, but I can't say if that would be much of an improvement from what we currently have or not.

The transition from a CB to S is an interesting topic, and always has been, at least since the days of Wilson. I couldn't say if BB would feel as though that'd be an improvement or not, but I suppose it has been talked of before.

If I had to make a prediction, it would be that the guys we have now will be our safeties again next year, but you never know with this coach and team. They are always looking to improve. You may have to wait until next year to get your different lineup, and if so, the addition of some draft picks and the return of injured starters should help make this defense better anyway. You also will have the seasoning of another year with the younger 1st and 2nd yr guys, and that should help too.

 

[Deus Irae]

The run defense was a problem. It was just overshadowed by the pass defense, and protected by the team's ability to jump out to leads.

The Patriots were 11th in rushing yards allowed, and 17th in YPA. They were only 21st in number of runs against, but allowed the 11th most rushing first downs in the league.

This season, the return of Warren and, hopefully, a healthy and improving Brace, should make the defensive line more stout on running downs, and should ease the run-stopping problems that so often happened when the team got out of the base defense. Spikes and Cunningham will be making the jump from season one to season two, and that should also help quite a bit. Hopefully the team will add talent at DE and OLB via the draft and further sure up the situation for the long term.

 

[Patspsycho]

I really dont think our safeties were the problem. We were rarely beaten on deep throws. And our run defense was not that bad, thats why teams were faced with third down so often. Our problem came from who we put on the field for third down. Three players in particular.
Culprit#1- Gary Guyton. As fast as he is he is so stiff that passes are completed in his area all the time and he sucks at defending the run. He is great at man but should not be allowed to play zone.

Culprit#2-TBC. I thought he was super overated in 09 and proved it in 10. He's basically useless. Can't hold the edge and when he rushes he leaves a gaping hole on his side. He is not fast enough to rush the way he does. Everything we look for in a linebacker is the opposite of him and i have never seen him even come close to defending a pass. I don't understand why we signed him long term. Maybe he can become effective if he loses weight and gains speed.

Culprit#3-Myron Pryor. I dont want to be too hard on him because he, unlike the others, can improve and get stronger but he was easily ran at.

I've recently have become a fan of nate irving a wouldnt mind seeing him replace guyton.

Guyton isn't a run stopper. He's not in there on run downs.

 

[Patspsycho]

Our safety play was pretty terrible, you have no disagreement here. Chung is good at/around the LOS but loses his effectiveness the farther he gets from it (at his current skill level). Sanders is decent at best at coverage but he gets worse the closer he gets to the LOS. And I could write a small novel on how bad Meriweather is. I wouldn't complain if they upgraded the safety position with a second round pick. That said I don't think it will matter much unless we get a new DE to mitigate the fact we're getting gouged in the running game or an outside LB who can both set the edge and at least pretend to rush the passer.

This is misleading. It's not fair to blame our secondary when our ability to pressure quarterbacks isn't really there.

 

[Fencer]

This season, the return of Warren and, hopefully, a healthy and improving Brace, should make the defensive line more stout on running downs, and should ease the run-stopping problems that so often happened when the team got out of the base defense.

Do you think they will play outside of the base defense?

 

[Deus Irae]

Do you think they will play outside of the base defense?

Yes, although not in every defensive permutation.

 

[Fencer]

Yes, although not in every defensive permutation.

I meant specifically whether they'd play on a significant fraction of passing downs.

Of course it's highly likely that they'd play in, say, short-yardage packages.

 

[Deus Irae]

I meant specifically whether they'd play on a significant fraction of passing downs.

Of course it's highly likely that they'd play in, say, short-yardage packages.

It'll vary by formation. With a 2 DL package, you could see Ty Warren and Wilfork, for example. In the nickel, you could see Ty inside with Wilfork, or Brace moved inside, or some other combination. The important thing is going to be limiting the run/pass substitutions of the D-linemen by getting guys who can be all around contributors. None of the current group is any threat to Julius Peppers in the pass rush department, after all.

 

[Fencer]

It'll vary by formation. With a 2 DL package, you could see Ty Warren and Wilfork, for example. In the nickel, you could see Ty inside with Wilfork, or Brace moved inside, or some other combination. The important thing is going to be limiting the run/pass substitutions of the D-linemen by getting guys who can be all around contributors. None of the current group is any threat to Julius Peppers in the pass rush department, after all.

I'm just not seeing Brace as mobile enough for passing downs, period.

And I think the prime in which Warren was respectable enough as a pass rusher to be used the way you suggest was short, and has passed. Maybe pass rushing was just a slowly learned skill for him, and a slight physical drop-off won't make that much difference. But that's not the way I'm betting right now.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm just not seeing Brace as mobile enough for passing downs, period.

And I think the prime in which Warren was respectable enough as a pass rusher to be used the way you suggest was short, and has passed. Maybe pass rushing was just a slowly learned skill for him, and a slight physical drop-off won't make that much difference. But that's not the way I'm betting right now.

Brace could move to tackle in the nickel, just for one example. It's too early to see how it's all going to shake out, and I'm hoping that a 3-4 DE will be drafted with one of the first 3 picks.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm just not seeing Brace as mobile enough for passing downs, period.

And I think the prime in which Warren was respectable enough as a pass rusher to be used the way you suggest was short, and has passed. Maybe pass rushing was just a slowly learned skill for him, and a slight physical drop-off won't make that much difference. But that's not the way I'm betting right now.

Brace is sort of an enigma to me.
Early on he looked tremendous. He was playing excellent 2 gap run D and very surprisngly was doing a real nice job bull rushing. Real nice.
But he never progressed to earning more playing time, and I don't know why. There was no doubt, IMO, the first half of the season, he was more effective when on the field than any other DE on the roster. But his playing time never reflected that. I don't know if it was a conditioning thing, a discipline thing, attitude, or just that the coaches film showed a different stpry than what I could see on TV. Whatever it is, I really dont know what to expect from him in 2011.

 

[KP12]

It's actually really simple why our defense was bad - age. It's hard to be good when you're starting around 6 or 7 first / second year players.

Yep, Nail on the head buddy.