The real people getting the shaft - Retired Players

[Rob0729]

Personally, the only group I side with in this whole mess is the retired players who neither the NFL nor the NFLPA really care about other than paying lipservice for PR purposes. The following interview with George Martin, former NFLPA president and current NFL Alumni Association President, detailing how little respect DeMaurice Smith gives him and his organization shows why I will never support the players in this matter. Turning your backs on the guys who made it so you could make seven and eight figure signing bonuses is not going to win my heart.

George Martin, director of NFL Alumni Association: DeMaurice Smith treats alums as 'afterthought'

It is sad when the owners seem to show the retired players more love than the current players do. Smith is no different than Gene Upshaw was who would publically state that he worked for the current players, not the former ones and he had obligation to get anything for the retired players.

 

[Nikolai]

Good point. You hear about retired players who can barely walk, drool on themselves, and have hardly any short-term memory, and then realize that they're also being neglected by the union.

I have wondered where Wes Welker will be in twenty years. The hits he takes are brutal and I can't help but think he'll be another one on the scrap heap. Yeah, the money is good, but intensive medical care for fifty years ain't cheap.

 

[upstater1]

Personally, the only group I side with in this whole mess is the retired players who neither the NFL nor the NFLPA really care about other than paying lipservice for PR purposes. The following interview with George Martin, former NFLPA president and current NFL Alumni Association President, detailing how little respect DeMaurice Smith gives him and his organization shows why I will never support the players in this matter. Turning your backs on the guys who made it so you could make seven and eight figure signing bonuses is not going to win my heart.

George Martin, director of NFL Alumni Association: DeMaurice Smith treats alums as 'afterthought'

It is sad when the owners seem to show the retired players more love than the current players do. Smith is no different than Gene Upshaw was who would publically state that he worked for the current players, not the former ones and he had obligation to get anything for the retired players.

So you dismiss the players over that? Without knowing whether the players already have an alumni contingent? One unaffiliated with the owners?

Yeah, it is true the alumni are getting the shaft, just as the alumni like Martin shafted the alumni when hey were players.

I agree something should be done. Florio went over this Martin-Smith thing this morning in a lot more detail than the Daily News.

 

[Rob0729]

Good point. You hear about retired players who can barely walk, drool on themselves, and have hardly any short-term memory, and then realize that they're also being neglected by the union.

I have wondered where Wes Welker will be in twenty years. The hits he takes are brutal and I can't help but think he'll be another one on the scrap heap. Yeah, the money is good, but intensive medical care for fifty years ain't cheap.

Well, at least Wes Welker got millions of dollars to play. Many of the retired players that this league was built on were paid so little that they had to take offseason jobs. On top of that, it was before most of the advancements in modern medicine where ACLs where career ending injuries and if you are knocked unconscious it meant you sat out a play rather than needing medical clearance to return a week later.

I feel for the guys that Ditka fights for from his era. If Ditka didn't get into coaching and broadcasting, he might be living a lower middle class lifestyle as one of the best TEs in league history because he made nothing as a player. Guys from his era are living off of pension not much bigger than what low end government employees get with the NFL money long since gone.

 

[Rob0729]

So you dismiss the players over that? Without knowing whether the players already have an alumni contingent? One unaffiliated with the owners?

Yeah, it is true the alumni are getting the shaft, just as the alumni like Martin shafted the alumni when hey were players.

I agree something should be done. Florio went over this Martin-Smith thing this morning in a lot more detail than the Daily News.

I dismiss the players because they have never cared about the retired players. They didn't under Upshaw and they still don't under Smith. The retire players are a tool they use to make the owners look bad, but never give them a voice.

Yes, Martin did shaft the retired players (although he only ran the NFLPA for two years), but that doesn't mean it is right to do now they complain.

I have repeatedly said both sides are wrong. I use the fact that the players claim the owners are greedy then peiss over the retired players who gave their bodies for modest money so the current players can get seven and eight figure signing bonuses as proof they are no better than the owners. Both sides are just greedy rich people who don't give a crap about anyone but themselves. There are individuals who do care, but as an organization the NFLPA look at the retired players as a tool to make the owners look greedy, but should only speak when bashing the league and just be happy with any bread crumbs the NFLPA allow them to have after they devour their share of the revenues.

I read Florio's piece and he dismisses Smith's diss of Martin and the retirees because Smith and the NFLPA has a close relation with two former players who are non-voting members on the Executive Committee (although Florio does say if either represent the former players in any way other than being former players). And he also insuates that the NFLPA excluded the NFL Alumnis from the process because Martin has a good working relationship with the league. So in other words, screw them.

Again, I don't side with the owners. I only side with the retired players and the scrubs at the end of the roster. Both groups are largely irrelevant in the eyes of both the NFLPA and the owners. I trash the players more because people seem to give them a free pass I guess because they are a "union" as if they are like the local electrical union or that the owners are just a billionaires which means they are just greedy and victimize the players. I have always said that it is billionaires vs. millionaires and both sides are a good share of greed.

 

[upstater1]

I dismiss the players because they have never cared about the retired players. They didn't under Upshaw and they still don't under Smith. The retire players are a tool they use to make the owners look bad, but never give them a voice.

Yes, Martin did shaft the retired players (although he only ran the NFLPA for two years), but that doesn't mean it is right to do now they complain.

I have repeatedly said both sides are wrong. I use the fact that the players claim the owners are greedy then peiss over the retired players who gave their bodies for modest money so the current players can get seven and eight figure signing bonuses as proof they are no better than the owners. Both sides are just greedy rich people who don't give a crap about anyone but themselves. There are individuals who do care, but as an organization the NFLPA look at the retired players as a tool to make the owners look greedy, but should only speak when bashing the league and just be happy with any bread crumbs the NFLPA allow them to have after they devour their share of the revenues.

I read Florio's piece and he pretty much trashed Smith and the NFLPA too.

I agree with what you wrote but Florio wrote this:

But here’s the thing. NFL Alumni has strong ties to the NFL, and the NFLPA* has its own relationship with retired players, including two of them (Jim McFarland and Cornelius Bennett) as non-voting members of the Executive Committee. The league gave NFL Alumni a $1 million loan, interest free. And the fact that the league has been supporting the idea of Congressional pressure to force Smith to meet with Martin suggests that the league views the group as a possible tool for driving a wedge between current and former players, in the hopes of getting the players to eventually cave.

As to the “questionnaire,” we’re told that Martin was asked questions via e-mail exchange regarding whether he supports the Legacy Fund and the union’s efforts at the bargaining table. Given the possible ties between the league and NFL Alumni, it’s not unreasonable (in our view) for the union to be interested in ensuring that the motives of NFL Alumni are pure, and that the group isn’t being manipulated by the league.

Apparently Martin was asked to support the players. But he's getting money from the NFL. And, the players have alumni involved in the negotiations. So we have rival alumni groups and interests. It's a lot more complicated.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree with what you wrote but Florio wrote this:


Apparently Martin was asked to support the players. But he's getting money from the NFL. And, the players have alumni involved in the negotiations. So we have rival alumni groups and interests. It's a lot more complicated.

First, the NFL Alumni Association get money in retirement benefits from the league. What are they supposed to screw over their members who get pittance for pensions to show solidarily with the active players which many of them have six, seven, or even eight figure bank accounts.

Second, most of the retired players associated with the NFLPA are recent retirees like Kevin Mawae and Pete Kendall. There are very few older players associated with the NFLPA (Florio only came up with two). Where are the more vocal retirees for membership benefits like Mike Ditka in the process. Nowhere because he would call out the NFLPA on how the retired players are getting screwed by the NFLPA.

The NFL Alumni Association give the former players valuable services that are needed for a lot of players who didn't make a forture during their playing days like retraining, job placement, healthcare benefits, disability benefits, health screenings, and grants. Much of these services are paid by the league. So the NFLPA didn't want this organization (the only organization in place specifically for retired players) because they crucially need financial support from the owners to provide benefits for their membners. Sorry, I was wrong, Smith deserves humanitarian of the year.

Sorry, but this further supports my contention that the NFLPA don't care about the retired players. They want the retired players to screw themselves over in order to have their organization involved in the process to make sure they are taken care of in the new CBA.

 

[Rob0729]

Here is the money the NFL Alumni are getting from the league:

NFLPA acknowledges guarantee of retiree benefits in 2011 | Fourth and Goal Unites

What a sham if Smith is cutting Martin and the Alumni Association from the whole CBA process because the league guaranteed retiree benfits during a lockout. The retirees should have refused benefits and lived in cardboard boxes and lived on cat food.

If Smith has an issue with the Alumni Association taking critical benefit money for their members, the NFLPA should have ponied up and pay the benefit money to the retirees themselves.

 

[BTTA]

I agree that the older retirees are the only true victims in this. What I'm not clear on is who is responsible. If the NFL is responsible for the retirement benefits, and most of those players aren't and weren't in the current union, then why would the union rescue the owners by taking money out of their contract and allocating it to the retirees? If on the other hand, the union is responsible and the owners aren't, then the union should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[upstater1]

Here is the money the NFL Alumni are getting from the league:

NFLPA acknowledges guarantee of retiree benefits in 2011 | Fourth and Goal Unites

What a sham if Smith is cutting Martin and the Alumni Association from the whole CBA process because the league guaranteed retiree benfits during a lockout. The retirees should have refused benefits and lived in cardboard boxes and lived on cat food.

If Smith has an issue with the Alumni Association taking critical benefit money for their members, the NFLPA should have ponied up and pay the benefit money to the retirees themselves.

I really think you only see things one way. The NFLPA is negotiating post-playing benefits with the NFL. They asked for support from Martin. Martin however, receives money from the NFL. You're painting it way too simplistically.

 

[upstater1]

If Smith has an issue with the Alumni Association taking critical benefit money for their members, the NFLPA should have ponied up and pay the benefit money to the retirees themselves.

Every post becomes more and more slanted.

Where did you read that the players have an issue with guaranteed benefits for alumni?

 

[Ring 6]

Personally, the only group I side with in this whole mess is the retired players who neither the NFL nor the NFLPA really care about other than paying lipservice for PR purposes. The following interview with George Martin, former NFLPA president and current NFL Alumni Association President, detailing how little respect DeMaurice Smith gives him and his organization shows why I will never support the players in this matter. Turning your backs on the guys who made it so you could make seven and eight figure signing bonuses is not going to win my heart.

George Martin, director of NFL Alumni Association: DeMaurice Smith treats alums as 'afterthought'

It is sad when the owners seem to show the retired players more love than the current players do. Smith is no different than Gene Upshaw was who would publically state that he worked for the current players, not the former ones and he had obligation to get anything for the retired players.

Smith is proving to be very poor at his job.

 

[Rob0729]

Every post becomes more and more slanted.

Where did you read that the players have an issue with guaranteed benefits for alumni?

I made a mistake about that part. I misread it. Sorry.

I guess that brings up how both sides rerally don't care about the retirees and both are just using them as a tool to break the other side. The owners are using them to drive a wedge in the players' side.

Again I never said the owners were right in this. I see both sides as greedy pigs with the retirees are the unwitting pawns getting used by both sides. Neither side really cares about them other than to break the other side.

 

[upstater1]

I made a mistake about that part. I misread it. Sorry.

I guess that brings up how both sides rerally don't care about the retirees and both are just using them as a tool to break the other side. The owners are using them to drive a wedge in the players' side.

Again I never said the owners were right in this. I see both sides as greedy pigs with the retirees are the unwitting pawns getting used by both sides. Neither side really cares about them other than to break the other side.

Right, as I wrote earlier in this thread, I totally agreed with your second post except for the last part about Florio.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I've read that part of the reasoning for the rookie wage scale was to take a portion of the money saved and dump a percentage into the veterans. Not enough imo. But a start. I also think the players need to get more involved in helping out these people that laid their foundation. It just isn't right about those veterans.

 

[upstater1]

I've read that part of the reasoning for the rookie wage scale was to take a portion of the money saved and dump a percentage into the veterans. Not enough imo. But a start. I also think the players need to get more involved in helping out these people that laid their foundation. It just isn't right about those veterans.

They can't take it all away from rookies. They have to protect their flank in case of another USFL scenario.