ESPN: Kraft says a Deal is "Possible"

[groundgame]

ESPN.com

WASHINGTON -- As commissioner Roger Goodell, union executive director DeMaurice Smith and their negotiating teams are at a federal mediator's office Tuesday for a 13th day of NFL labor talks, influential Patriots owner Robert Kraft said Monday from Israel that he believes a labor deal is "possible."

 

[MoLewisrocks]

One positive sign might be that Dee left the pitbull (Kessler) in his crate at his office this AM... The same one Kraft tangled with last week. The same one who drove Upshaw to threaten an end to the salary cap forever back in 2006 which was what paniced the owners at the time to agree to an 11th hour CBA that was untenable for them long term.

 

[BlueThunder]

Jgid



:d

 

[Sicilian]

This just in. Things can sometimes happen. Unless they don't. More at 11.

 

[DarrylStingley]

It is also possible that I will make a major bowel movement some time in the next three days.

It might even be likely. Maybe.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Kraft says this everytime they put a microphone in front of his face.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Kraft says this everytime they put a microphone in front of his face.

Sun to rise in East tomorrow!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The latest tweets seem to agree that what is left to settle is the split and the sides are apparently still $750-800M apart with the union insisting they will not make any more financial concessions absent more financial data on individual teams (they already get reams of it on the league as a whole and have been offered more on the same basis and rejected that which kind of underscores the real desire here is for information they can use against owners - the same reason the league is reluctant to release that kind of data because the owners could then use it against each other...).

According to "sources" the rookie wage scale and other minor issues (believe it or not that likely includes an 18 game schedule) have been pretty much settled.

Rather than risk killing the collective beauty of our golden goose or starting an owners tong war only to ultimately find out through discovery that while some owners pay their kids or old cronies more than they're worth to be members of an organization...they do have the data that backs up increasing shortfalls that will effect capital improvement and revenue expansion league wide which is the only data that matters...

I say split the difference knowing nobody including Judge Doty lives or works forever and Dee has political ambitions that will likely result in his moving on sooner than later and let's get on with the hoopla of FA and the drama of the draft and the back nine of the Brady/Manning debate before Favre decides to unretire again...

 

[townes]

The latest tweets seem to agree that what is left to settle is the split and the sides are apparently still $750-800M apart with the union insisting they will not make any more financial concessions absent more financial data on individual teams (they already get reams of it on the league as a whole and have been offered more on the same basis and rejected that which kind of underscores the real desire here is for information they can use against owners - the same reason the league is reluctant to release that kind of data because the owners could then use it against each other...).

According to "sources" the rookie wage scale and other minor issues (believe it or not that likely includes an 18 game schedule) have been pretty much settled.

Rather than risk killing the collective beauty of our golden goose or starting an owners tong war only to ultimately find out through discovery that while some owners pay their kids or old cronies more than they're worth to be members of an organization...they do have the data that backs up increasing shortfalls that will effect capital improvement and revenue expansion league wide which is the only data that matters...

I say split the difference knowing nobody including Judge Doty lives or works forever and Dee has political ambitions that will likely result in his moving on sooner than later and let's get on with the hoopla of FA and the drama of the draft and the back nine of the Brady/Manning debate before Favre decides to unretire again...

If a deal gets done fans will have Doty to thank, as the owners had no intention of negotiating until he cut off their slimeball move to still get paid. The fact that owners violated the collective bargaining agreement by getting Direct TV to pay them MORE if there was no football shows just what a bunch of greedy scumbags they really are. They signed a deal which required them to maximize profits that would be shared and then cut a side deal that screwed the players over and violated their obligations under the CBA. Even if there is a deal Doty should revisit the matter and give the players punitive damages for this chicanery.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If a deal gets done fans will have Doty to thank, as the owners had no intention of negotiating until he cut off their slimeball move to still get paid. The fact that owners violated the collective bargaining agreement by getting Direct TV to pay them MORE if there was no football shows just what a bunch of greedy scumbags they really are. They signed a deal which required them to maximize profits that would be shared and then cut a side deal that screwed the players over and violated their obligations under the CBA. Even if there is a deal Doty should revisit the matter and give the players punitive damages for this chicanery.

There is a reason the ruling isn't a slam dunk on appeal and that is the one Burbank acknowledged which is the league also has an obligation to do what is in it's own best interest as well, and facing a potential work stoppage in a union operation it was sound business practice for the league to extract a promise to pay regardless. Otherwise both sides potentially lose money that is unrecoverable...duh

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

AP: Union rejected NFL's offer to show 5 years of profitability data - USATODAY.com

Article claims that owners are offering to disclose mucho financial info per club and have it independently audited. We'll see if this represents progress or is a media ploy.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

It's really beginning to sound like the NFLPA was the one who never had any intention of negotiating... The league has made substantial concessions on the financial data it is willing to make available to the union. They won't even look at it because they want to see each teams books so they can then spin their unwillingness to negotiate as a somehow noble cause...

This is the same union that will fight to the death to protect it's members who are paid millions and want lifelong health benefits from these same employers from employer blood testing for illegal drugs that put their careers if not their future health in jeopardy. Same Union that fought for Mike Vick's right to retain $20M in signing bonus money even though he was no longer able to play due to federal conviction and incarceration and his illegal behavior tore a franchise apart and damaged it's and the league's brand. And created a situation where a drafted player or FA can simply show up when he has to but make no effort to work on his conditioning or his craft and still pocket $30-40M that would have been better spent on proven players or players who are willing to work for and earn their money. The NFLPA is a real noble outfit. Now they want to prove to us that Ralph Wilson or Mike Brown or even Jerry Jones pays himself or his kids or his brother-in-law too much to be part of a privately owned organization... Welcome to America, NFLPA.

Fans will eventually realize that the side that pulled the trigger that killed their beloved golden goose wasn't being noble, just equally greedy and self absorbed. And because they believe decertification to be their ace in the hole, that will be the union.

http://www.profootballtalk.nbcsport...nts-more-financial-information-than-it-needs/

 

[McCourty Island]

It's really beginning to sound like the NFLPA was the one who never had any intention of negotiating... The league has made substantial concessions on the financial data it is willing to make available to the union. They won't even look at it because they want to see each teams books so they can then spin their unwillingness to negotiate as a somehow noble cause...

This is the same union that will fight to the death to protect it's members who are paid millions and want lifelong health benefits from these same employers from employer blood testing for illegal drugs that put their careers if not their future health in jeopardy. Same Union that fought for Mike Vick's right to retain $20M in signing bonus money even though he was no longer able to play due to federal conviction and incarceration and his illegal behavior tore a franchise apart and damaged it's and the league's brand. And created a situation where a drafted player or FA can simply show up when he has to but make no effort to work on his conditioning or his craft and still pocket $30-40M that would have been better spent on proven players or players who are willing to work for and earn their money. The NFLPA is a real noble outfit. Now they want to prove to us that Ralph Wilson or Mike Brown or even Jerry Jones pays himself or his kids or his brother-in-law too much to be part of a privately owned organization... Welcome to America, NFLPA.

Fans will eventually realize that the side that pulled the trigger that killed their beloved golden goose wasn't being noble, just equally greedy and self absorbed. And because they believe decertification to be their ace in the hole, that will be the union.

http://www.profootballtalk.nbcsport...nts-more-financial-information-than-it-needs/

So basically you're complaining about a union protecting its members, interesting. And yes, if you are going to cry poor and demand another $1B dollars from the players then I don't blame the union for asking for more detailed expense information.

No one cares what the owners are paying their family members until the owners point to lowered profit figures as the reason why they want the extra $1B off the top. If the lowered profit figures are coming from increasing their own salaries then thats a way for them to manipulate the profit figures.

Your link doesn't work BTW.

 

[Deus Irae]

AP: Union rejected NFL's offer to show 5 years of profitability data - USATODAY.com

Article claims that owners are offering to disclose mucho financial info per club and have it independently audited. We'll see if this represents progress or is a media ploy.

The key is what the owners are not willing to show. After all, it was the problems between the owners that were the real issues in the last CBA discussions, and hiding them when supposedly opening the books could just be one way for the owners to force the players to deal with the so-called problems of individual team inequities.

I'm not saying that such is the case, but I'd expect that such a possibility is on the minds of the union negotiators.

 

[Deus Irae]

Just as a follow up.... Florio, who was initially siding with the owners about the 'books' concessions, has already begun backtracking.

The league needs to offer to provide per-team profit information, along with some way of determine whether the profit is “enough” profit, either by comparing the per-team profit to per-team revenue.

And that’s all the union needs.

NFLPA wants more financial information than it needs | ProFootballTalk

While profit information alone possibly isn’t enough (as our friend Ross Tucker pointed out via e-mail, profit data doesn’t reveal the salary payments made to family members), full-blown financial statements are too much.

League, union dispute the contents of the players’ past information demands | ProFootballTalk

Watching him flail around as he tries to play all sides is as amusing as any of the press releases by the involved parties.

 

[Deus Irae]

Another follow up, as Florio starts to get the point of the Union through his head, and to get a real grasp on why it wants to see all the books:

A July 1992 article from the New York Times regarding financial information disclosed in conjunction with the antitrust lawsuit filed following union decertification in the wake of the failed 1987 strike points out that former Eagles owner Norman Braman paid himself a $7.5 million salary for 1990.

Other litigation has revealed that Bengals owner Mike Brown paid himself for 18 years, twice calling it a “general manager” bonus of $1.237 million and $1.947 million.

The league needs to give up more than profit information | ProFootballTalk

The past (and present) has given the players good reason not to trust the owners.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Another follow up, as Florio starts to get the point of the Union through his head, and to get a real grasp on why it wants to see all the books:

The league needs to give up more than profit information | ProFootballTalk

The past (and present) has given the players good reason not to trust the owners.

Bit if Florio's column was accurate, that expense information was offered to the Union.

Secondly, so what? Not many corporations have employees who make far more than the CEO/owner in salary.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bit if Florio's column was accurate, that expense information was offered to the Union.

Secondly, so what? Not many corporations have employees who make far more than the CEO/owner in salary.

What the players make is irrelevant to this particular aspect of the bargaining, PWP. This is about owners with a history of 'shaving' the numbers now expecting the union to buy their version of the numbers on faith.

The union would be foolish to go along with that.

And, read Florio's column again. You'll find his follow up demonstrates that not all the monies were to be provided as data with the owners' offer.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Unusual as it is, I wish then that the owners would provide additional information on the following "expenses"...salaries, expenses and other compensation taken by the owner himself and an aggregate number for that taken by all blood and marital relatives on the payroll. An independent audit report with such numbers would prevent the problem of individual employees from being singled out and embarrassed though it should expose any individual owners skimming disproportionate amounts from the top and crying poormouth. Let the chips fall where they may.

However players' salaries are relevant in that no union hype over an owner taking several million for himself as compensation.

 

[borg]

Bit if Florio's column was accurate, that expense information was offered to the Union.

Secondly, so what? Not many corporations have employees who make far more than the CEO/owner in salary.

Are you saying that it is wrong for an owner of a business to pay himself a salary?