If Cameron Jordan and JJ Watt are both around at 17....

[West Philly Patriot]

I was perusing some mocks this rainy philadelphia morning, and I noticed a number of them have both Cam jordan and JJ Watt still being on the board @ 17.

My question to you is: In your opinion, what approach will BB and the war room take with such a scenario? Also, what decision would you make and why?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Neither. BB passes on Jordan because he is too small for our D Line and passes on Watts because Watts lacks experience as a D Line guy, not enough tape for BB to get comfortable with the guy.

BB drops back a few spots and takes Wilkerson to be a 3-4 DE.

 

[Warren94]

I like Jenkins from Clemson and I think we have a legitimate shot at him...I wouldn't be surprised by a CB like Williams from Texas

 

[DNR]

With me it's a no brainer...it's Watts

That said...I have no doubt Belichik will pass on both and go OL or CB or some other pick that will have me throwing stuff.

 

[stevedogc]

I like Jenkins from Clemson and I think we have a legitimate shot at him...I wouldn't be surprised by a CB like Williams from Texas

Jenkins lost me when he did only 17 reps at the combine.

 

[PatriotsInGA]

Draft both of them....wait a second

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Jenkins lost me when he did only 17 reps at the combine.

I agree it showed me he is more about penetrating and gap busting than holding the LOS.

 

[charlie2]

Neither. BB passes on Jordan because he is too small for our D Line and passes on Watts because Watts lacks experience as a D Line guy, not enough tape for BB to get comfortable with the guy.

BB drops back a few spots and takes Wilkerson to be a 3-4 DE.

While I agree with you that Jordan is most likely too small for our scheme, I don't see how BB passes up Watt at 17. Sure he is a TE convert and has only 1 year experience but everything is there in terms of measurables and intensity. More significantly, he was not playing at some small school where BB is going to need to rely on limited film to project how he holds up against real competition. Watt faced and dominated some of the best teams in the nation- see Ohio State game. Another way of looking at this is that Watt is only scraping the surface of his potential/technique refinement.

Regardless, I think Watt is gone at 17. I'm hoping for A. Smith or Heyward.

 

[bucky]

I'm quite certain that both will be gone by 17.

However, if your question is to pick between the 2, I think BB goes Jordan. Reasons:

- More proven career - 4 years of experience in college.
- More productivity (Watt had slightly better numbers in '10, but Jordan was better in '07-'09
- More relevant experience playing in a 3-4.
- More demonstrated ability to anchor vs. the run
- In summary - Higher floor

On the other hand, if it were up to me, I'd pass on both of them and go with Aldon Smith. He's definitely a higher risk than Jordan, but also has the highest ceiling IMO. Hey, it's not my money!

 

[rookBoston]

I agree, we draft neither. Trade back for OL like Gabe Carimi or OLB Justin Houston.

I think the talent available in the late teens feels very similar to what you can get in the early 30s. Christian Ballard feels very much like Cameron Jordan.

 

[Metaphors]

I was perusing some mocks this rainy philadelphia morning, and I noticed a number of them have both Cam jordan and JJ Watt still being on the board @ 17.

My question to you is: In your opinion, what approach will BB and the war room take with such a scenario? Also, what decision would you make and why?

Neither is what Belichick is looking for as an every down DE (3-4 DE in base and 4-3 DT in nickel). Watt is probably closer but still doesn't have the bulk to eat up blockers and let the LBs roam free. Watt is an upgrade to Wright...and his last name starts with "W" so he should fit right in.

That being said, I would draft Jordan. He has a skill set that would be unique on the team. Excellent speed/size ratio and violet hands that makes him difficult to block one-on-one. You find a way to get him on the field in passing situations...and to be perfectly frank, getting pressure in these situations is the one area that the Pats absolutely have to improve this offseason.

If the Pats draft the front 7 in round one, they need to get players that can consistently win individual battles on the pass rush and demand double teams...making the rest of the defense more effective by drawing attention from other players like Cunningham and removing players from pass routes to stay in and block. I see this description fitting Jordan more than Watt. He would be an untraditional pick for a Belichick 3-4 DE...but the recent tradition of mediocre QBs having big games against the Pats is one that is worth breaking.

 

[jays52]

I think that the two players are quite close. I think Jordan is the better choice for experience, strength, and tape. I think that will make a lot of people like him more than I think they should. He's run his course athletically and I vew him as a solid starting role player. Nothing more, nothing less. 34's that don't rely on d-lineman as much as NE could make him into a valuable player.

Watt is the textbook "oooh shiny!" player that some (including myself) easily fall for. He has the prototypical size, prototypical technique, plus burst, plus agility, and the awareness to be a ball batting machine. Incredible agility for his size, closes the backside and clogs the lanes on boots or reverse option passes. Relentless in pursuit, shoestrings guys others can 't because of his height and wingspan. He can play end in the 34 for depth as a rookie and play every d-line position in sub. No other 34 end is capable of that this year. The only real Seymour type prospect for a right end since Seymour. Only problem? Strength. He is lacking it a bit, but given his conversion happened only a year ago I'm willing to accept that. Throw in a limited sample size and the debate between him and Jordan becomes a wash.

The one thing that would sway me in this wash is intangibles. One is a highschool bluechip son of a pro-bowler described as a locker room clown with work ethic concerns. The other is a walk-on who won the Lott IMPACT award, started a foundation before he made money, and was a two year consecutive academic all big 10 athlete. Gimme the Walkon.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Neither. BB passes on Jordan because he is too small for our D Line and passes on Watts because Watts lacks experience as a D Line guy, not enough tape for BB to get comfortable with the guy.

BB drops back a few spots and takes Wilkerson to be a 3-4 DE.

I like Jenkins from Clemson and I think we have a legitimate shot at him...I wouldn't be surprised by a CB like Williams from Texas

Jenkins lost me when he did only 17 reps at the combine.

He should've took a DNP. 17 reps is atrocious for a 300 lbs lineman.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

I think that the two players are quite close. I think Jordan is the better choice for experience, strength, and tape. I think that will make a lot of people like him more than I think they should. He's run his course athletically and I vew him as a solid starting role player. Nothing more, nothing less. 34's that don't rely on d-lineman as much as NE could make him into a valuable player.

Watt is the textbook "oooh shiny!" player that some (including myself) easily fall for. He has the prototypical size, prototypical technique, plus burst, plus agility, and the awareness to be a ball batting machine. Incredible agility for his size, closes the backside and clogs the lanes on boots or reverse option passes. Relentless in pursuit, shoestrings guys others can 't because of his height and wingspan. He can play end in the 34 for depth as a rookie and play every d-line position in sub. No other 34 end is capable of that this year. The only real Seymour type prospect for a right end since Seymour. Only problem? Strength. He is lacking it a bit, but given his conversion happened only a year ago I'm willing to accept that. Throw in a limited sample size and the debate between him and Jordan becomes a wash.

The one thing that would sway me in this wash is intangibles. One is a highschool bluechip son of a pro-bowler described as a locker room clown with work ethic concerns. The other is a walk-on who won the Lott IMPACT award, started a foundation before he made money, and was a two year consecutive academic all big 10 athlete. Gimme the Walkon.

I have to admit your swinging me toward watt, and his combine was impressive to put it mildly. But we all know how BB feels about limited tape as well. How do you feel about the concerns regarding his inabilty to "eat" two blockers in our scheme? How much girth are we talking about him needing to add? Seymour actually weighed the same if not less than watt when he was drafted.

BTW: Nice post bucky those are all good reasons to go jordan over watt.

Some really good feedback on this one. Keep it going patsfans draftniks!

 

[CTHuskies]

I'm quite certain that both will be gone by 17.

However, if your question is to pick between the 2, I think BB goes Jordan. Reasons:

- More proven career - 4 years of experience in college.
- More productivity (Watt had slightly better numbers in '10, but Jordan was better in '07-'09
- More relevant experience playing in a 3-4.
- More demonstrated ability to anchor vs. the run
- In summary - Higher floor

On the other hand, if it were up to me, I'd pass on both of them and go with Aldon Smith. He's definitely a higher risk than Jordan, but also has the highest ceiling IMO. Hey, it's not my money!

I agree, with your analysis if BB stays at #17 he takes Jordan. I too would go for Aldon Smith’s upside over both Jordan or Watt. This is the draft to take some chances. Unfortunately, I think BB sees the talent available in the late teens feels very similar to what you can get in the early 30s... so can you say trade down?:bricks:.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'll say this again for those who haven't read it, or have forgotten:
-- Watt at the beginning of the year did not look like a kid who should come out early, poor technique, poor strength, lots of hustle. Watt mid-season impressed me with his progress in technique and strength, still very raw, but much less of a concern if he left early. He continued to progress from there. I've seen him against Iowa, Ohio State, and TCU amongst others, he's not looked out of place going against solid O-lines.
-- I saw Jordan last season and again this season, last season he was okay, this season was "where's Cameron?" until the Senior Bowl. He spent his vaunted Colorado game working against a redshirt freshman RT, meh, he made plays, but he didn't dominate nearly as much as their undersized OLBs. He was invisible against Nevada's O-line, again meh. He's a hot ticket at the Senior Bowl? Too little, too late.

I doubt Watt gets drafted by NE, but if he is I'm hopeful his demonstrated work ethic and hustle will turn him into the diamond I've seen in the rough. If Jordan gets drafted, BB knows best, but I won't be setting very high expectations.

 

[Sciz]

If they are okay with working with Tom Condon, then Watt. If they are not okay with working with Condon, then neither.

 

[Brady2Welker]

Jordan for me.

 

[Water Boy]

Neither. BB passes on Jordan because he is too small for our D Line and passes on Watts because Watts lacks experience as a D Line guy, not enough tape for BB to get comfortable with the guy.

BB drops back a few spots and takes Wilkerson to be a 3-4 DE.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Water Boy]

Watt is an upgrade to Wright...and his last name starts with "W" so he should fit right in.

I see Watt as a taller, longer-armed version of Wright. I see Jordan as Jarvis Green with a higher ceiling. The health of Wright is an X-factor for me in terms of these two players. If Wright is 100% next season, I don't place as much value on these two players, who no doubt will provide very good pass rush from the DE position, but might not be as SATPOA on running downs as the position demands.