How High A priority Is It To Upgrade OGs?

[PATSYLICIOUS]

What happens if he's cut?

I think all the money is guaranteed on the franchise tag

 

[Deus Irae]

He wasnt going to be paid 600,000 a game last year. Obviously this year is a different set of circumstances.

He has to play to get money this time.

EDIT: YOU KEEP BEATING ME TO IT, ANDY! :enranged:

People said he'd have to sign the high tender last year, too. They then said that he'd definitely be in before the season started.

After last year, it would be foolish to consider him signed before he signs.

 

[Dufflebagz]

People said he'd have to sign the high tender last year, too. They then said that he'd definitely be in before the season started.

After last year, it would be foolish to consider him signed before he signs.

I don't think he's 100% going to be in NE next season but it will hurt him if he doesn't participate with the Pats decision.

 

[andrewgarrr]

Once he signs the tag offer, that money is guaranteed.

Ah. Thanks!

 

[Ring 6]

People said he'd have to sign the high tender last year, too. They then said that he'd definitely be in before the season started.

After last year, it would be foolish to consider him signed before he signs.

Who are 'people"? And why would what they said have any bearing on this?
Mankins sat our half of last season when he was due to make something like 200k a game (or whatever the exact # was)
Are you really saying those are not very different circumstances than sittin out costing him over a half million dollars? Because 'people said'?

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't think he's 100% going to be in NE next season but it will hurt him if he doesn't participate with the Pats decision.

How so? It certainly didn't hurt him much when he didn't go along last year. He could sit for half the year again. He'd still collect over $5 million and get credit for the year of service. What are the Patriots going to threaten him with? Are they going to threaten to remove the tag and cut him loose?

He'd probably throw a party.

 

[Dufflebagz]

How so? It certainly didn't hurt him much when he didn't go along last year. He could sit for half the year again. He'd still collect over $5 million and get credit for the year of service. What are the Patriots going to threaten him with? Are they going to threaten to remove the tag and cut him loose?

He'd probably throw a party.

Last year he was making a lot less a game. If this is really about the money, you think he'll miss out on an extra $5 million?

 

[Deus Irae]

Last year he was making a lot less a game. If this is really about the money, you think he'll miss out on an extra $5 million?

If it was only about money, he wouldn't have passed on one and a half million last year.

 

[Dufflebagz]

If it was only about money, he wouldn't have passed on one and a half million last year.

He passed on $1.5 million because he was trying to get big money. In reality that's not too much money compared to what he makes. This time he does have the upperhand because no matter what it counts as a service year, but $5 million is a lot of money. He should take the money this season and if he can't work out a long-term deal with the Pats he'll get big money from someone next year.

 

[mgteich]

I don't that Mankins will play for the patriots this year. Even if he does, this will be his last year and there is still a need for 2 starting quality guards, not to mention a center.

Please understand that the draft is supposed to be about developing players for next year.
============================================
See below for a list of interior linemen signed for 2012
Ohrnberger

In fairness, Wendell is an RFA for 2012.
==========================================

Even if we get Mankins to play this year for $11M, the interior line still needs 2-3 additions for 2012.

IF LIGHT is re-signed , then we only need a backup OT. If he is not, we also need a starting OT.
===========================================

 

[Deus Irae]

He passed on $1.5 million because he was trying to get big money. In reality that's not too much money compared to what he makes. This time he does have the upperhand because no matter what it counts as a service year, but $5 million is a lot of money. He should take the money this season and if he can't work out a long-term deal with the Pats he'll get big money from someone next year.

No offense intended here, but what you think he should take really doesn't matter, just as people thinking he should sign his first tender offer last year didn't matter.

It's not that I'm sure he won't sign the tag offer and play, because I've noted elsewhere that I expect he'll play. It's that he showed a willingness to pass up money last year, and we'd be fools to ignore that when we're looking at Patriots needs this year.

 

[crowell33]

Starting Guards - Connolly, Wendell
Starting Center - Koppen
Backup CG Ohrnberger
==========================

And continue to ask how important it is to upgrade at OG.

Mankins and Connolly, same starters as last year.

 

[Dufflebagz]

No offense intended here, but what you think he should take really doesn't matter, just as people thinking he should sign his first tender offer last year didn't matter.

It's not that I'm sure he won't sign the tag offer and play, because I've noted elsewhere that I expect he'll play. It's that he showed a willingness to pass up money last year, and we'd be fools to ignore that when we're looking at Patriots needs this year.

This was all assuming money is basically the only problem....If it's not most of what I said will be wiped out.

Yes, it's only my opinion but that's all I have to offer. If we weren't throwing our opinions around this would be an extremely boring forum.

 

[Deus Irae]

This was all assuming money is basically the only problem....If it's not most of what I said will be wiped out.

Yes, it's only my opinion but that's all I have to offer. If we weren't throwing our opinions around this would be an extremely boring forum.

This isn't about opinion. It's about the fact that the guy's unsigned. The only opinions being tossed around are yours and Andy's. I've actually avoided them.

Light - unsigned
Mankins - unsigned
Koppen - signed
Neal - retiring
Vollmer - signed

That's the reality of the team's starting offensive line as of right now, unless Mankins has signed without us knowing.

 

[Dufflebagz]

This isn't about opinion. It's about the fact that the guy's unsigned. The only opinions being tossed around are yours and Andy's. I've actually avoided them.

Light - unsigned
Mankins - unsigned
Koppen - signed
Neal - retiring
Vollmer - signed

That's the reality of the team's starting offensive line as of right now, unless Mankins has signed without us knowing.

My point exactly, if we didn't talk about the future (which obviously nobody knows what will happen) it would all be facts and the site would be boring.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't that Mankins will play for the patriots this year. Even if he does, this will be his last year and there is still a need for 2 starting quality guards, not to mention a center.

Please understand that the draft is supposed to be about developing players for next year.
============================================
See below for a list of interior linemen signed for 2012
Ohrnberger

In fairness, Wendell is an RFA for 2012.
==========================================

Even if we get Mankins to play this year for $11M, the interior line still needs 2-3 additions for 2012.

IF LIGHT is re-signed , then we only need a backup OT. If he is not, we also need a starting OT.
===========================================

Thats different than saying Connolly and Wendell are the starting Gs.
I agree that Mankins tenuous future has to be part of the strategy of roster building, but it would be wrong to act as if he doesnt exist and isnt Patriot property for 2011.

No doubt the offensive line needs attention, but its been that way almost every season.
I can't remember dozens of your posts showing how bare the cupboard will be 1-2 hence if no one is resigned.
There are many ways to handle OL and particularly G.
Over the Brady years at interior OL we have:
Signed street FAs to start
Signed low level FAs to start
Converted a C to G
Started a 5th round rookie
Developed a wrestler who never played football into a starter
Used a first round pick
Developed 2 UDFAs who barely played elsewhere into starters

That doesnt include the T position where part of the story includes
A 4th rounder, 2 5th rounders, 2 2nd rounders and a 3rd rounder starting as rookies. 2 UDFAs starting. An uncountable number of OL developed from the practice squad.

Basically, we have gotten OL whereever we can find them, and the results have been pretty good.

 

[Ring 6]

This isn't about opinion. It's about the fact that the guy's unsigned. The only opinions being tossed around are yours and Andy's. I've actually avoided them.

Light - unsigned
Mankins - unsigned
Koppen - signed
Neal - retiring
Vollmer - signed

That's the reality of the team's starting offensive line as of right now, unless Mankins has signed without us knowing.

How is stating that Mankins is Patriot propery an opinion?
If stating that the circumstances are different this year is an opinion then your stating otherwise is equally an opinion.

Because you choose to ignore the fact that Mankins is Patriot property does not make the fact that he is an opinion or your opinion of what may transpire a fact.

 

[Deus Irae]

My point exactly, if we didn't talk about the future (which obviously nobody knows what will happen) it would all be facts and the site would be boring.

The O.P. WAS talking about the future. The team's needs for the future. He was noting the current absence of signed starting quality OGs and opening up the discussion regarding the need to upgrade at the position as a result.

 

[Deus Irae]

How is stating that Mankins is Patriot propery an opinion?
If stating that the circumstances are different this year is an opinion then your stating otherwise is equally an opinion.

Because you choose to ignore the fact that Mankins is Patriot property does not make the fact that he is an opinion or your opinion of what may transpire a fact.

"Mankins is the starting LG" isn't opinion now? Funny, when I was noting that Connolly wasn't really a starter for the team since he was just replacing players ahead of him in Mankins/Kaczur/Neal, I was assailed for daring to take such a position. Interesting that the tables have now turned to the point where acknowledging that a player stayed away for a fair chunk of last year is now supposed to be an opinion.

Interesting theory. Also, When the discussion went further, you were clearly putting forth the opinion that he'd be starting day one, without actually saying it, by pointing to rights, circumstances and the like, in response to my pointing to the saying about counting one's chickens before they've hatched.

But you go ahead and pretend that you weren't taking that position, and I'll pretend that you aren't posting anymore in this thread.

 

[mgteich]

Forgive me if I think that your head is placed firmly in the sand.

Yes, I have been discussing the OL for years. Specifically last year, I indicated that OG/OC was a serious issue since neither Neal or Mankins were likely to be here for very long, and we didn't expect Koppen to be here long-term either. I posited that I didn't think Ohrnberger, Wendell and Connolly were the answer for the need to develop THREE starters.

So, here we are one year later. We are HOPING that Mankins will play. We HOPING that Koppen will be better in his contract season. We are COUNTING on Connolly and Wendell for significant contributions.
==========================================
And just BTW, we are also HOPING that Light will re-sign. Most of us know that it is only a matter of where before pick 35 that we draft an OT. I do understand that there are those who see some 3rd or 4th rounder as next year's starting OT if Light doesn't re-sign. But that is NOT the way belichick operates. He will use his resources to have a genuine Plan B in case Light does not re-sign.
============================================

THE TEAM HAS CHOICE
The team does NOT have to look for wrestlers, UDFA's and street free agents to play at LG, RG and center in 2011 and/or 2012. Instead, just maybe, we could decide, as we did in 2005, that OG is a critical need for this team, worthy of #28 or #33 and that we really need to find three starters for 2012.

The team will make do with a weak to average line if they must, and perhaps go the SB with such a line. But with 6 picks in the top 100, plus an additional pick in ther 4th, it is POSSIBLE to put a very high priority on developing a top-notch set of three interior linemen for 2012. That is in addition to dealing with the need at OT.

Thats different than saying Connolly and Wendell are the starting Gs.
I agree that Mankins tenuous future has to be part of the strategy of roster building, but it would be wrong to act as if he doesnt exist and isnt Patriot property for 2011.

No doubt the offensive line needs attention, but its been that way almost every season.
I can't remember dozens of your posts showing how bare the cupboard will be 1-2 hence if no one is resigned.
There are many ways to handle OL and particularly G.
Over the Brady years at interior OL we have:
Signed street FAs to start
Signed low level FAs to start
Converted a C to G
Started a 5th round rookie
Developed a wrestler who never played football into a starter
Used a first round pick
Developed 2 UDFAs who barely played elsewhere into starters

That doesnt include the T position where part of the story includes
A 4th rounder, 2 5th rounders, 2 2nd rounders and a 3rd rounder starting as rookies. 2 UDFAs starting. An uncountable number of OL developed from the practice squad.

Basically, we have gotten OL whereever we can find them, and the results have been pretty good.