Chris Carter

[sbpatfan]

Thought this story from ESPN was interesting with Willie Mac tutoring this guy.

New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Any opinions on this guy? I like how he plays.

Also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMVtxfRt8ok

 

[Sciz]

Way too small. He's got "DE to ILB conversion" size, like Bruschi or Fletcher, not OLB size.

 

[sbpatfan]

Llamar Woodley was pretty small too..

 

[convertedpatsfan]

He played under Pat Hill at Fresno, so BB should have some good insight on him.

He's not in the CDS top 100 so if there's interest, could be a later-round guy.

NFP doesn't have a great report on him, though they think he could be a good pass rushing LB. If we can get him in the 5th, could be good value.

 

[Sciz]

Llamar Woodley was pretty small too..

And it also a poor scheme fit. Success in other schemes doesn't necessarily correlate to success in the Pats' scheme. And even then, Woodley was 15 pounds heavier.

 

[Patriot Missile]

And it also a poor scheme fit. Success in other schemes doesn't necessarily correlate to success in the Pats' scheme. And even then, Woodley was 15 pounds heavier.

lol..Here we go again. Must be the 2 inch syndrome again. Sets the edge=check. shed and disengage/engage blockers=check. 39 sacks in 3 years=check, stops the run=check. Covers in space=check. Give me a break people. Yes, just because a player is a fit in another system doesn't make them a fit in ours. But if I had to sign a free agent OLB I would probably be willing to take my chances that he would adapt just fine.

 

[Off The Grid]

Way too small. He's got "DE to ILB conversion" size, like Bruschi or Fletcher, not OLB size.

Concur, sir. Mind you: I think he could play Flanker in SOME schemes...just not OURS.

 

[Sciz]

Concur, sir. Mind you: I think he could play Flanker in SOME schemes...just not OURS.

Exactly. My goal is to make the scheme differences known to all of PatsFans. I feel like I'm about a third of the way there

 

[sbpatfan]

I don't get it, this kid seems to have everything you're looking for in a pass rusher besides another two inches. Really, complaining about him being 15 pounds light? Tons of players come in underweight at every position. Look at the fire and passion he plays with.

I feel like this board is a broken record with weights and heights sometimes. And would anyone care to actually explain why Cris Carter couldn't play in the Patriots "scheme." Everyone throws that argument around out there but never states details.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I don't get it, this kid seems to have everything you're looking for in a pass rusher besides another two inches. Really, complaining about him being 15 pounds light? Tons of players come in underweight at every position. Look at the fire and passion he plays with.

I feel like this board is a broken record with weights and heights sometimes. And would anyone care to actually explain why Cris Carter couldn't play in the Patriots "scheme." Everyone throws that argument around out there but never states details.

A lot more than just weight comes into play. Body type and bone structure can also come into play.

Barrel bodies like Sapp and Wilfork who are short but are able to carry the weight and still play with good power and burst of speed. Once in awhile you will see someone like Zach Thomas who was what 5'10? Total tackling machine.

In a Belichick system you need strength,height and weight to play OLB. There are rare exceptions to the rule but normaly he wants his players a certain size and doesn't seem to be one to wait and see if player Z will possibly put on 10 or 15 pounds. Size seems to matter, but recognition,loyalty,intelligence and work ethic go a long way also. But the fact remains if you can't set the edge, tackle and cover equally well, you better be able to do something better than anyone else can like rush the passer or be a special teams demon to see any kind of time at all on this team.

I don't believe that there is a true prototypical size because they have varied over the years. But i would guess if you come in lower than 6'2 250 you won't be starting anytime soon in a Patriots uniform at OLB. Unless your Von Miller at 246.

 

[sbpatfan]

A lot more than just weight comes into play. Body type and bone structure can also come into play.

Barrel bodies like Sapp and Wilfork who are short but are able to carry the weight and still play with good power and burst of speed. Once in awhile you will see someone like Zach Thomas who was what 5'10? Total tackling machine.

In a Belichick system you need strength,height and weight to play OLB. There are rare exceptions to the rule but normaly he wants his players a certain size and doesn't seem to be one to wait and see if player Z will possibly put on 10 or 15 pounds. Size seems to matter, but recognition,loyalty,intelligence and work ethic go a long way also. But the fact remains if you can't set the edge, tackle and cover equally well, you better be able to do something better than anyone else can like rush the passer or be a special teams demon to see any kind of time at all on this team.

I don't believe that there is a true prototypical size because they have varied over the years. But i would guess if you come in lower than 6'2 250 you won't be starting anytime soon in a Patriots uniform at OLB. Unless your Von Miller at 246.

I get what you're saying, but the bolded doesn't seem true to me. Belichick kept Crable around for three years. He's held onto players before.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I get what you're saying, but the bolded doesn't seem true to me. Belichick kept Crable around for three years. He's held onto players before.

Yeah, but even though he had skinny chicken legs he still weighed in at 6'5 250 with his adonis upper body. He did seem to be more 235 240 looking to me.

 

[MaineMan]

I don't get it, this kid seems to have everything you're looking for in a pass rusher besides another two inches. Really, complaining about him being 15 pounds light? Tons of players come in underweight at every position. Look at the fire and passion he plays with.

I feel like this board is a broken record with weights and heights sometimes. And would anyone care to actually explain why Cris Carter couldn't play in the Patriots "scheme." Everyone throws that argument around out there but never states details.

This may be true, but I don't think BB is looking for exceptional pass rushers who may or may not be able to get better at setting the edge/stopping the run and/or providing some decent coverage.

To me, BB's defensive scheme boils down to stopping big plays first and making big plays second. So, he's more inclined to go for guys who seem more capable of setting the edge/stopping the run from the get-go (plus sufficient agility/length to be able to contribute reasonably well in coverage), regardless how highly developed their pass rush skills were in college. Such guys tend to be a bit heftier, bigger all around where their length (hopefully) comes into play for shedding blockers and tipping passes. It seems like, as far as BB is concerned, with these defensive abilities in place, the guy can develop attacking skills later as he goes along.

 

[Snake Eyes]

This may be true, but I don't think BB is looking for exceptional pass rushers who may or may not be able to get better at setting the edge/stopping the run and/or providing some decent coverage.

To me, BB's defensive scheme boils down to stopping big plays first and making big plays second. So, he's more inclined to go for guys who seem more capable of setting the edge/stopping the run from the get-go (plus sufficient agility/length to be able to contribute reasonably well in coverage), regardless how highly developed their pass rush skills were in college. Such guys tend to be a bit heftier, bigger all around where their length (hopefully) comes into play for shedding blockers and tipping passes. It seems like, as far as BB is concerned, with these defensive abilities in place, the guy can develop attacking skills later as he goes along.

While BB might certainly think along those lines I find it interesting that over and over a player's burst is the most critical attribute. Jared Allen talks about "sacking the QB with your feet, not with your hands", Jason Taylor has said that 'if you can got off the snap faster than the other guy then everything else is gravy'. The key to stopping a big RB like Brandon Jacobs or Jerome Bettis is getting to them before they can really accelerate, trying to tackle Jerome Bettis when he's really moving didnt work out well for Ted Johnson even at over 250lbs.

Anyway, I don't see the value of talking about whether or not a player is ideal, if that even exists, especially when our current players are not ideal. To me the most important questions is whether the player is an upgrade and the opportunity cost of getting him.

 

[MaineMan]

While BB might certainly think along those lines I find it interesting that over and over a player's burst is the most critical attribute. Jared Allen talks about "sacking the QB with your feet, not with your hands", Jason Taylor has said that 'if you can got off the snap faster than the other guy then everything else is gravy'. The key to stopping a big RB like Brandon Jacobs or Jerome Bettis is getting to them before they can really accelerate, trying to tackle Jerome Bettis when he's really moving didnt work out well for Ted Johnson even at over 250lbs.

Anyway, I don't see the value of talking about whether or not a player is ideal, if that even exists, especially when our current players are not ideal. To me the most important questions is whether the player is an upgrade and the opportunity cost of getting him.

Agreed. I just think a lot of folks believe that BB skips taking pass-rushers simply because they don't fit his "ideal" measurements. I think he skips them because all he sees in them in them is a pass-rush, regardless of their measurements.

 

[Off The Grid]

Way too small. He's got "DE to ILB conversion" size, like Bruschi or Fletcher, not OLB size.

Concur, sir. Mind you: I think he could play Flanker in SOME schemes...just not OURS.

Exactly. My goal is to make the scheme differences known to all of PatsFans. I feel like I'm about a third of the way there

A Noble Cause, sir.

A year ago, I was pimping Jerry Hughes + Jason Worilds!!