Clay Matthews and size

[onegr8om]

In my opinion, Clay Matthews made the play of the superbowl. With the Steelers driving(and with momentum) his forced fumble and great athletic move to get into position seemed to be the momentum shift the Packers HAD to have in that situation. There's a lot of talk about the Pats having specific size needs in their linebackers and how Matthews didn't fit into that requirement, but after seeing that particular play i'm convinced that a FOOTBALL player can work in ANY system, regardless of size. Honestly, had he been the Pats ideal SIZE for a LB would he have been able to scrunch himself down and shed the block like that? I doubt it. Love the play, the move and the way he finished the tackle. THAT is the kind of LB we need!!

 

[Shelterdog]

1.) Matthews now has has the Patriots OLB ideal size-he's 6'3 or 6'4" and 255 or so. Matthews has put on 15-20 pounds of muscle since the draft.-he was 240 at the combine just before his 23 birthday after 5 years of a college strength program and he's suddenly blown up to 255 or 260 or less than two calendar years.

It's insane growth (he was a little shorter and 165 in high school).

It's roid or just freakish late growth.

2.) We did trade the Matthews pick for Gronk, Tate, Butler and Edelman.

 

[Sciz]

I think you should have watched him for the rest of the game. He spent a lot of it being dominated by a backup TE.

 

[onegr8om]

I'm not saying i think we should have taken Matthews OVER what we got in return(i LOVE the return for that trade), but i just dont think we should avoid players because of specific size concerns. Matthews just happens to be a great example of a player who wasn't ideal size on draft day, but matured into a GREAT Player. We're not very far off from being able to become a GREAT defense, but a rush LB/DE certainly fits the bill regardless if he's not "ideal" size.

 

[WhiZa]

In my opinion, Clay Matthews made the play of the superbowl. With the Steelers driving(and with momentum) his forced fumble and great athletic move to get into position seemed to be the momentum shift the Packers HAD to have in that situation. There's a lot of talk about the Pats having specific size needs in their linebackers and how Matthews didn't fit into that requirement, but after seeing that particular play i'm convinced that a FOOTBALL player can work in ANY system, regardless of size. Honestly, had he been the Pats ideal SIZE for a LB would he have been able to scrunch himself down and shed the block like that? I doubt it. Love the play, the move and the way he finished the tackle. THAT is the kind of LB we need!!

This is also what i'm thinking about this upcoming draft. I hope BB throws away his selection criteria and drafts some playmakers. Guys that change the tone of the game and take the heat off Brady so it won't hurt if he throws a couple more ints next year. Which you already have to assume he won't break the record again.

 

[WhiZa]

1.) Matthews now has has the Patriots OLB ideal size-he's 6'3 or 6'4" and 255 or so. Matthews has put on 15-20 pounds of muscle since the draft.-he was 240 at the combine just before his 23 birthday after 5 years of a college strength program and he's suddenly blown up to 255 or 260 or less than two calendar years.

It's insane growth (he was a little shorter and 165 in high school).

It's roid or just freakish late growth.

2.) We did trade the Matthews pick for Gronk, Tate, Butler and Edelman.

I didn't know that until you mentioned it. Here's his combine numbers:
6-3.1 240 4.6/40
Clay Matthews*|*Southern Cal,*OLB*:*2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

And today he's 6-3 255: Clay Matthews, OLB for the Green Bay Packers at NFL.com

It's tough to put on that much weight and still be as effective as he is. Someone saw that he could handle it and it's paid off for GB. Makes you wonder if Matthews was 255 at the draft where he would of gotten selected.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

For all the talk of height/weight requirements of the Pats for their OLB.


Rob Ninkovich 6'2 255
TBC 6'2 250
M.Murrell 6'2 250

Cunningham 6'3 266

Moore (DE) 6'4 268

 

[Shelterdog]

If I could pick one pro athlete who I thought was juicing it would be Matthews. He was 6-1, 165 as a 16 year old junior in high school, it's not clear what he was as a senior in high school, about 190 as a freshman at USC, 6-3 225 as a 19 year old redshirt freshman, 230 as a sophomore, 230 as a 21 year old junior, 246 as a 22 year old senior, down to 240 at the combine, 250 as a rookie and 255-260 now.

The growth from 230 - 260 is really, really suspicious-he'd bulked up 35 pounds in a year and 60 pounds of great weight over three years which is already a lot, then stayed at 225-230 for a few years, then jumped up another 20 pounds of good weight from his junior to his rookie year, then another 5-10 pounds in another year..

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I suppose you're excited about the play (which was only halfway his play; I believe Pickett made the hit), but the Packers aren't even in that position if Matthews had a clue about setting the edge or keeping contain. The Steelers TE obliterated him in the run game. I lost track of how many times they ran right over that edge and picked up a key first down. The game would have been a blowout with a better run-stopper at OLB. It's that simple.

Look, Matthews and his ilk have a place in this league. It's just not with the Patriots, at least not unless they learn better technique against the run. Love him as a blitzing threat, but he did precious little in that game until he combined with the lineman for that hit. Let's not get away from what's worked for us so well for so long just because of one decent play from a good player who doesn't fit our philosophy.

 

[patchick]

The idea that the Patriots rejected Matthews based solely on rigid size requirements is a popular one here, but where does it come from? Why should we suppose that the Patriots would have drafted him in the first round if he'd been 255 lbs.?

Remember that Matthews was NOT an impact player in college. He made 10 starts and recorded 5 sacks in 4 years at USC. Nobody was talking about him as a high pick until he showed up at the Combine looking like Superman, having gone from scrawny to brawny very, very fast.

What about that screams "Belichick first rounder" to you? When has BB ever spent a first on a guy who only started for one year?

 

[Criptonite]

Why is it assumed we passed on Matthews due to size? At the time I had much greater concerns than his size. This was a player who didn't become a starter until 3 games into his senior season. He started a total of 10 games. He looked great in those games, but he was surrounded by phenomenal talent including other LBs Cushing and Maualuga. He was thought to be the 3rd best linebacker on his own team. Then of course there were the rumors of steroid use. Matthews was a risky pick. I just don't think it makes sense to blame it on his size. In my opinion, there were many more factors at play.

 

[Sciz]

For all the talk of height/weight requirements of the Pats for their OLB.


Rob Ninkovich 6'2 255
TBC 6'2 250
M.Murrell 6'2 250

Cunningham 6'3 266

Moore (DE) 6'4 268

Ninkovich is a hair over 6'3'', and TBC and Murrell suck. Not really any comparison.

 

[Shelterdog]

The idea that the Patriots rejected Matthews based solely on rigid size requirements is a popular one here, but where does it come from? Why should we suppose that the Patriots would have drafted him in the first round if he'd been 255 lbs.?

BB made a comment after the 2009 draft that it was hard for him to draft OLBs because there weren't a lot of 6-4, 6-5 guys who ran 4.6, 4.65.

Scout.com: Scouting The Talent At OLB

It's not clear whether he was thinking of 240 pound 6-3 1/8" Matthews when he said that (I suspect he had some of the Larry English/Robert Ayers/Sintim guys on his mind who are even further off from the height or speed requirements), but that's at least why people think he rejected Matthews for being small.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Ninkovich is a hair over 6'3'', and TBC and Murrell suck. Not really any comparison.

The point is everyone thinks the Pats will only consider OLB with certain measurables. The reality is most of their OLB on the roster do not meet these requirements on top of the fact that they suck.


NFL.com lists Ninkovich as 6'2.

Rob Ninkovich, OLB for the New England Patriots at NFL.com

 

[Criptonite]

The point is everyone thinks the Pats will only consider OLB with certain measurables. The reality is most of their OLB on the roster do not meet these requirements on top of the fact that they suck.


NFL.com lists Ninkovich as 6'2.

Rob Ninkovich, OLB for the New England Patriots at NFL.com

I get the impression these measurables are regarding players BB will draft early. Guys he sees as potential 3 down LBs. We didn't draft Moore, Murrell or Ninkovich. We passed each one of them many times. We didn't draft TBC until round 7. Cunningham had the great measurables. He was about 6'3½" with long arms. He was unable to do a 40, but the other tests gives the impression he would have been in the 4.6 area. And of course it's not just about a 40 time, Cunningham performed extremely well in all the tests according to scouts.

 

[sbpatfan]

Clay Matthews is the perfect example of a boom or bust 3-4 OLB draft pick. He just happened to boom. Are people still pissed we passed on Everson Griffen?

 

[patchick]

Clay Matthews is the perfect example of a boom or bust 3-4 OLB draft pick. He just happened to boom. Are people still pissed we passed on Everson Griffen?

Yep. Reality check: in this board's 2009 draft game, Larry English was named for the Patriots twice as often as Matthews.

 

[WhiZa]

I get the impression these measurables are regarding players BB will draft early. Guys he sees as potential 3 down LBs. We didn't draft Moore, Murrell or Ninkovich. We passed each one of them many times. We didn't draft TBC until round 7. Cunningham had the great measurables. He was about 6'3½" with long arms. He was unable to do a 40, but the other tests gives the impression he would have been in the 4.6 area. And of course it's not just about a 40 time, Cunningham performed extremely well in all the tests according to scouts.

You are right that it only pertains to what players BB is looking for in the draft. BB wouldn't think twice about James Harrison's height if he could have him on this team. TBC was shorter, but it was in the 7th round and was 265 at the time. He was probably seen more as a sub rusher at DE in the nickel with the potential to play OLB.

 

[WhiZa]

Yep. Reality check: in this board's 2009 draft game, Larry English was named for the Patriots twice as often as Matthews.

And Connor Barwin was 10x that. I think Patsnutme was the only one who actually wanted Matthews that year

 

[WhiZa]

Clay Matthews is the perfect example of a boom or bust 3-4 OLB draft pick. He just happened to boom. Are people still pissed we passed on Everson Griffen?

that would probably make a good thread of all the OLB that the Pats passed around the first or second round. How many of them actually did anything?

As far as Everson Griffen the jury is still out.