Rotoworld MocK: OL, DE for the Pats in Round 1

[MaineMan]

Heyward is a little undersized horizontally, but that's the kind of thing that can be fixed. Not like somebody like Adrian Clayborn, who doesn't really have the frame to add enough weight to play OLB.

Heyward regularly disappeared in games this past season. A lot of people like to cite his dominant performance at the bowl game as to why he'd be a good fit. Well, if he's that good, where was he the rest of the season?

I've heard this before. I'm just wondering - which games? and - how did he "disappear"?

 

[bucky]

Oops, yep! DE, not OLB.

Ideal weight is over 300, but players who lack length like him usually need extra bulk to hold up. A perfect example is Ron Brace, who is 6-3, but 330 pounds, and GWarren, who is a shade under 6-4, but also 330. For Heyward, who is right around 6-6, anything over 300 or so should be plenty, given the extra length.

I don't think this is necessary. Shawn Ellis is about 6'4 and a half, and was in the 280s when he was drafted. He plays around 290 ish. Seymour was about 10-15 pounds heavier, but was also over 6'6. Jarvis Green was undersized - 6'3" and 275. Add 2 inches and 15 pounds to Jarvis and you get a full time player who can get to the QB.

There are a couple of guys who fit that profile in this year's draft - Cameron Jodran, JJ Watt, Calyborn, and Heyward. Watt has a major question mark as to how much he actually weighs and his functional strength. Clayborn may be undersized in all phases. Heyward is not as good a pass rusher as the other 3. So Jordan, to me, is the #1 DE prospect.

 

[dryheat44]

If we don't re-sign Light, I'm fine with an OT and a DE, although at this point I think that I would choose Jordan and Carimi.

My thoughts exactly...well kind of exactly. I like Sherrod, but at #17 that seems like a move out of desperation. There's a lot of front-seven talent available at that spot which would be tough to pass over.

 

[WhiZa]

Heyward is 6'5"+ (I've seen him listed at 6'6") and 288 (I've seen him listed at 290). I've seen much shorter guys who are not much heavier being flogged as "THE answer" for the Pats at DE.

there are plenty of players under 300lbs who are predicted to be a good fit in the Pats DE mold, but what we've seen over the years is the Pats actually getting bigger at the position if anything. The undersized guys like Green or Wright were more projects for BB that panned out. I can't seem him taking a project in the first couple rounds (ie heyward).

 

[IllegalContact]

christian ballard showed well at the senior bowl both during the week of practice and the game. some people don't like him, but he's big (6'5"/297), mobile (4.85) and plays pretty hard

the there's mohammed wilkerson.......also big and aggressive and will likely be a 3rd or 4th rounder due to being a bit raw......he does have the ability to be a 3 down DL

 

[IllegalContact]

I think an OT in round 1 would be the right choice. Solder would be my first choice and I would take him if he was there at #17, otherwise, I would consider jjwatt if his size/weight numbers are real and he shows decent strength at the combine. Ideally, I would like the pats to pull the strings to get both of these guys though I think solder is more important.

I would have no problem with the pats using #28 or #33 on a guy like leshoure......lets face it, green-ellis and woodhead outperformed expectation, but this group needs help in a major way.

leshoure gives you everything........great size/speed combo, can catch the ball out of the backfield, and is great in pass pro. for the first time, brady could have a full-time type of back which allows him to call any play run or pass effectively and not have to juggle green-ellis and woodhead situationally

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

christian ballard showed well at the senior bowl both during the week of practice and the game. some people don't like him, but he's big (6'5"/297), mobile (4.85) and plays pretty hard

the there's mohammed wilkerson.......also big and aggressive and will likely be a 3rd or 4th rounder due to being a bit raw......he does have the ability to be a 3 down DL

There are mock drafts with Wilkerson in the late 1st/early 2nd. Any new info that drops him that late?

The one thing that has to be remembered is that it's very rare to find a finished product in the draft. I think we tend to forget the maturation process of Wilfork and Warren.

It's also worth remembering Wrong Borges and his opinion on Seymour 2001.( A poster does have the quote in his posting)

It seems motor, football IQ, height and expected playing weight are the best focus areas.

If all these guys were polished NFL starters, they would most likely be in the league.

 

[IllegalContact]

1a - OT solder
1b - RB leshoure
2a - OG mike pouncey
2b - LB martez wilson
3a - DL mohammed wilkerson
3b - LB KJ wright
4 - LB brooks reed
5 - DL jarvis jenkins

 

[IllegalContact]

There are mock drafts with Wilkerson in the late 1st/early 2nd. Any new info that drops him that late?

The one thing that has to be remembered is that it's very rare to find a finished product in the draft. I think we tend to forget the maturation process of Wilfork and Warren.

It's also worth remembering Wrong Borges and his opinion on Seymour 2001.( A poster does have the quote in his posting)

It seems motor, football IQ, height and expected playing weight are the best focus areas.

If all these guys were polished NFL starters, they would most likely be in the league.

as far as I know and have seen, wilkerson is expected to be a 3rd rounder. if he moves up, take him in the 2nd round

 

[Patriot Missile]

1a - OT solder
1b - RB leshoure
2a - OG mike pouncey
2b - LB martez wilson
3a - DL mohammed wilkerson
3b - LB KJ wright
4 - LB brooks reed
5 - DL jarvis jenkins

I like it. It just seems to much of a risk to wait on Wilkerson in the 3rd round. If he is picked earlierwho is our DE? Btw I do predict his size, speed and pass rush ability put him on BB's radar. Maybe even at 2a. He has been known to pick players he likes earlier than some would expect via Mankins and Vollmer.

 

[Sciz]

I don't think this is necessary. Shawn Ellis is about 6'4 and a half, and was in the 280s when he was drafted. He plays around 290 ish. Seymour was about 10-15 pounds heavier, but was also over 6'6. Jarvis Green was undersized - 6'3" and 275. Add 2 inches and 15 pounds to Jarvis and you get a full time player who can get to the QB.

There are a couple of guys who fit that profile in this year's draft - Cameron Jodran, JJ Watt, Calyborn, and Heyward. Watt has a major question mark as to how much he actually weighs and his functional strength. Clayborn may be undersized in all phases. Heyward is not as good a pass rusher as the other 3. So Jordan, to me, is the #1 DE prospect.

Ellis is in a different 3-4 scheme. Green was horribly undersized for an early-down DE, and it showed. But I'm pretty sure Bill has never drafted a true 3-4 DE who was under 290.

 

[IllegalContact]

I like it. It just seems to much of a risk to wait on Wilkerson in the 3rd round. If he is picked earlierwho is our DE? Btw I do predict his size, speed and pass rush ability put him on BB's radar. Maybe even at 2a. He has been known to pick players he likes earlier than some would expect via Mankins and Vollmer.

there's flexibility there.....if it looks like they need to take wilkerson earlier, then they settle on watkins or combine some picks to move up and get pouncey.....I mean they're not going to find room on the roster for everyone they draft which would cause another ted larsen situation to happen. In case you don't know, the pats cut ted larsen with plans to put him on the practice squad except that the buccaneers grabbed him and he wound up starting 11 games for them at LG and had a huge hand in the bucs improvement at running the ball. by the end of the year, he was better than anyone the pats had at OG not named logan mankins. I'm not interested in grabbing more bodies only to wind up letting them go be heroes somewhere else. I'd rather combine those picks for bodies I know will be here. the pats have a chance of retooling their OL by the middle of day 2 by adding a new OT and a new OG. all they need to do then is resign mankins (yah, big task, but how can you possibly tell me that letting him go helps the pats in any way with a QB heading to 34 years old) having an OL of
solder
mankins
koppen
pouncey
vollmer
solidifies things for a few years. next year they can pursue a C to eventually replace koppen (although I still think koppen has a few years.....alot of his problems stemmed from musical OG's around him)......by the 2012 season, the pats will have 4 of 5 guys who are on rookie contracts and the overall $$ cost of the unit will be chump change even while carrying mankins' contract.

as for DL, if its not Dareus or Fairley, the improvements aren't all that certain.....I'd be plenty happy with mild improvement along the DL in terms of at least height and some athelticism at DE as long as the pats go out and get some real athletic aggressiveness at OLB (which martez wilson, kj wright, and brooks reed will all bring).....the pats need widescale changes at OLB (TBC, woods, ninkovich aren't improving enough to convince me they are going to get any better)....I'd like to have some OLB's that at least have the physical ability to overpursue

 

[IllegalContact]

Ellis is in a different 3-4 scheme. Green was horribly undersized for an early-down DE, and it showed. But I'm pretty sure Bill has never drafted a true 3-4 DE who was under 290.

I'd take ellis in a heartbeat. he'd do for the pats unit what bobby hamilton did during his time here.

belichik didn't draft guys under 290, but he used the pretty successfully.

bobby hamilton was 6'5"/280 anthony pleasant was 6'5"/280....

I would replace GWarren with Ellis in a heartbeat.......with the young guys and the fat plugger we have in the middle, he could help hugely

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Ellis is in a different 3-4 scheme. Green was horribly undersized for an early-down DE, and it showed. But I'm pretty sure Bill has never drafted a true 3-4 DE who was under 290.

I agree, and unless some of the tweener DE/DT's in this draft have the frame to put on 10-15 punds without losing any quickness or lateral agility, I can not see BB taking any of them.

My top three DE's are:

Dareus of Alabama 1st round top 10
Wilkerson of Temple late 1st/early 2nd
Linget of Illinios 2nd round

 

[Patriot Missile]

I agree, and unless some of the tweener DE/DT's in this draft have the frame to put on 10-15 punds without losing any quickness or lateral agility, I can not see BB taking any of them.

My top three DE's are:

Dareus of Alabama 1st round top 10
Wilkerson of Temple late 1st/early 2nd
Linget of Illinios 2nd round

I didn't realize that Dareus spent some time replacing Cody at the nose position last year. Every bit of versatility helps. You would think Belichick has got to be looking at him closely.

 

[Water Boy]

I like it. It just seems to much of a risk to wait on Wilkerson in the 3rd round. If he is picked earlierwho is our DE?

Ty Warren, Ron Brace, Gerrard Warren, Mike Wright, Deadrick.


I like Wilkerson, but I'm not going to slit my wrist if we don't take a DE early in the draft. If we do take a DE, I'd like a guy who projects as a 3 down player (eg Jordan or Wilkerson) who can be stout at the POA and generate some interior pass rush. I like Watt as a situational guy on passing downs, but I don't think that warrants a mid-first round pick.

Although DE's like Ballard or Heyward may turn into good 3-4 two gap players, but I don't think they would significantly improve our our D-line especially the interior pass rush, and with Wilfork, Brace, Love, Warren, & Warren, we already have plenty of run stuffing beef.

 

[MaineMan]

Ty Warren, Ron Brace, Gerrard Warren, Mike Wright, Deadrick.


I like Wilkerson, but I'm not going to slit my wrist if we don't take a DE early in the draft. If we do take a DE, I'd like a guy who projects as a 3 down player (eg Jordan or Wilkerson) who can be stout at the POA and generate some interior pass rush. I like Watt as a situational guy on passing downs, but I don't think that warrants a mid-first round pick.

Although DE's like Ballard or Heyward may turn into good 3-4 two gap players, but I don't think they would significantly improve our our D-line especially the interior pass rush, and with Wilfork, Brace, Love, Warren, & Warren, we already have plenty of run stuffing beef.

This is all well to say based purely on size/heft, but that fact is that Brace, Love and G. Warren weren't able to "stuff" anything this past season. Wilfork literally did 54% of the work of the best three. Getting Ty Warren back should help, IF he's able to return to form, but ti seems likely that we'll still need to commit extra resources to stopping the run again next season unless we get Wilfork another REAL run-stuffing bookend rather than a guy who just looks the part.

 

[DW Toys]

Heyward is being massively overrated.

I agree Jack. Over rated. Not a great work ethic as well. Probably mediocre at best.

I can't see Sherrod either. Are you kidding? Finesse only OT. We need to get tougher, not the other way especially if Mankins goes bye, bye. What are you guys thinking?
DW Toys

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, I can't argue with the picks, but his reasoning is shoddy. Especially saying that Vollmer's development stalled.. The kid made 2nd team ALL-PRO this year.. In his 2nd season. What more could you want?? Sheesh..

As for Hayward being the best 5 technique on the Pats, That would be hard to believe as well..

 

[DaBruinz]

1a - OT solder
1b - RB leshoure
2a - OG mike pouncey
2b - LB martez wilson
3a - DL mohammed wilkerson
3b - LB KJ wright
4 - LB brooks reed
5 - DL jarvis jenkins

Taking Solder at 17 would be a mistake. I watched him in the Senior Bowl and he'd be over-classed immediately. I also don't believe he'll be a LT in the NFL.

The Pats won't look at Leshoure. Not with the Lines needing more.

Pouncey is a nice pick.

Wilson?? Why another ILB?

As others have mentioned, it's unlikely that Wilkerson lasts until the 3rd round. If we didn't need someone to step in at RDE immediately, I'd say he'd be a good pick.

Wright and Reed?? Seriously?? You do realize that the Pats don't have room to draft 3 LBers, yes? And none of them is a clear upgrade over what's currently on the Pats roster.