Reiss: Pats should consider 4-3 edge rushers in draft

[jmt57]

Why the New England Patriots should think outside their system when making draft decisions - espnBoston - Mike Reiss

Interesting column by Reiss. He notes that the Pats were in their base 3-4 alignment for just 40% of their snaps last season, and were in a sub package with five or more defensive backs 57% of the time. He says that formation is what "sunk them", based on their ranking last in the NFL on 3rd down. From there he says the Pats should get away from only scouting players that would appear to be fits for a 3-4 and look at 4-3 prototypes as well.

The Patriots are a system-specific team, which means they scout players independently based on how they might fit into their unique-to-them 3-4 system. Because of that, they sometimes take themselves out of the running for some of the best pure edge rushers in the draft, defenders who might fit only in 4-3 schemes.

Based on 2010, a strong case could be made that it's time to change that line of thinking.

Because of the struggles in the sub package, a 4-3 edge rusher is exactly what the Patriots need -- a havoc-creator that opposing teams must account for at all times, a play-with-your-hair-on-fire rusher who brings an attitude to a defense.

Reiss also says that although the Pats have done well looking for three- and four-down players, they would be well served to consider two-down players in this upcoming draft.

Still, one important aspect of scouting is being flexible within a system, and the growing number of snaps in the sub defense could signal the need for the Patriots to alter their mindset.

In the search for three- and four-down players with their top picks, the Patriots have selected safety Brandon Meriweather, linebacker Jerod Mayo, safety Patrick Chung and cornerback Devin McCourty in each of the past four years.

Looking ahead, a two-down player wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if that player is a pass-rusher.

At the least, he'd fill 57 percent of the snaps in sub packages, addressing the team's biggest need.

 

[Sciz]

Run defense in subpackages wasn't great this season, and adding a "hair on fire" type of player wouldn't help with that. I'd rather see a McGinest type, a player who plays the run well and rushes the passer well, but is kinda iffy in coverage. Heck, I think a Jarvis Green type is a better fit than a Matthews or Woodley type.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Heck, I think a Jarvis Green type is a better fit than a Matthews or Woodley type.

You can't be serious.

 

[Sciz]

You can't be serious.

Not comparing talent level, just style of play. I'd rather have a big pass-rusher who is not a liability against the run compared to a "hair on fire" type who leaves the draw lanes wide open.

 

[Froob]

He's gonna have to cut down on his size requirements too, missed too many good players like woodley because they were too small. Crable was the perfect size :bricks: . Interested to see if Cunningham makes a big jump next season like Patrick Chung did.

 

[Sciz]

He's gonna have to cut down on his size requirements too, missed too many good players like woodley because they were too small. Crable was the perfect size :bricks: . Interested to see if Cunningham makes a big jump next season like Patrick Chung did.

If Cunningham improves his tackling, that's an extra 7 sacks or so right there.

 

[seven]

I do not have enough data to say which player,
therefore to know which formation is best.
How much time is required to really feel like one
knows the draft? I watch maybe a dozen college games/year.
So clueless, on that.
But i am 100% down with more mayhem, please.
However they wish to bring it.

One monster on this year's squad, and I think
they would be definitively punching the Cheezit's
ticket next week,
you know?
Great, and frustrating year.
looking forward to the draft, seeing what moves they make.
Like a Christmas, with lots of extra cash.

 

[Froob]

If Cunningham improves his tackling, that's an extra 7 sacks or so right there.

Yea, wasn't his only sack of the year a fumble? If he bulks up a bit or something he's going to be a beast.

 

[Sciz]

Yea, wasn't his only sack of the year a fumble? If he bulks up a bit or something he's going to be a beast.

Yeah, he never actually tackled the QB behind the LoS :lol2:

It's okay, though. I don't mind that he was a half-second late on Manning's game-ending pick, and I can't blame him for not tackling Sanchez when he was being swung around by his facemask.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Yeah, he never actually tackled the QB behind the LoS :lol2:

It's okay, though. I don't mind that he was a half-second late on Manning's game-ending pick, and I can't blame him for not tackling Sanchez when he was being swung around by his facemask.

If Sanchez has his hand on Cunningham's facemask then he simply needs to grab Sanchez's wrist and fall to the ground, Sanchez will go with him.

 

[Sciz]

If Sanchez has his hand on Cunningham's facemask then he simply needs to grab Sanchez's wrist and fall to the ground, Sanchez will go with him.

He's a rookie. He doesn't think that fast

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Why the New England Patriots should think outside their system when making draft decisions - espnBoston - Mike Reiss

Interesting column by Reiss. He notes that the Pats were in their base 3-4 alignment for just 40% of their snaps last season, and were in a sub package with five or more defensive backs 57% of the time. He says that formation is what "sunk them", based on their ranking last in the NFL on 3rd down. From there he says the Pats should get away from only scouting players that would appear to be fits for a 3-4 and look at 4-3 prototypes as well.



Reiss also says that although the Pats have done well looking for three- and four-down players, they would be well served to consider two-down players in this upcoming draft.

I'm glad someone else is saying it, I've been saying this for years. When Ninkovich, TBC, Shawn Crable, Pierre Woods are the best you can come up with for 3-4 OLB's, it may be time to change the criteria (I like Cunningham and think he will develop into a good player but they need more 1 sack from him) . I also said in another thread this week that they should draft Von Miller if he is availiable, even if it means playing him only on passing downs. They have to find a way to pressure the QB.

 

[andrewgarrr]

They run so many subpackages because they can't get the job done in their base alignment. When we had our 'great' defenses in the SB years, they ran the base 34 much more than the subpackages. If we had the personnel to run the base 34 successfully in any situation (which is ideal), then they would be running it more. Guys like Seymour, Vrabel, Warren, Harrison, played the position completely and didn't need to be subbed in on 'passing' or 'rushing' situations.

 

[andrewgarrr]

I think a lot of the reason why BB didn't draft OLB or edge rushers in recent years is because he believed in the development of Crable. He had all the physical tools that BB likes at the position (minus 10-15 lbs). But then again he did draft Cunningham...

Just speculating.

 

[WelshPat]

Not comparing talent level, just style of play. I'd rather have a big pass-rusher who is not a liability against the run compared to a "hair on fire" type who leaves the draw lanes wide open.

How many times is the other team really going to try the draw though? Once maybe twice a game? (On 3rd and long)

If Peyton Manning is behind center and repeatedly calls draw plays on 3rd down I'm leaping for joy if I'm BB

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think a lot of the reason why BB didn't draft OLB or edge rushers in recent years is because he believed in the development of Crable. He had all the physical tools that BB likes at the position (minus 10-15 lbs). But then again he did draft Cunningham...

Just speculating.

He believed that Crable could develop into a good player. The problem is that he never did.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

They run so many subpackages because they can't get the job done in their base alignment. When we had our 'great' defenses in the SB years, they ran the base 34 much more than the subpackages. If we had the personnel to run the base 34 successfully in any situation (which is ideal), then they would be running it more. Guys like Seymour, Vrabel, Warren, Harrison, played the position completely and didn't need to be subbed in on 'passing' or 'rushing' situations.

This. Bill is doing what he has to do in the interim based on his roster. That doesn't mean you change the scheme to essentially a base 4-3, it means you redouble your efforts to find more talented players to fit your 3-4 so you don't have to run as many sub packages... When you have the right talent in the trenches in this system the pass rush comes from a variety of sources and makes it much harder for QB's to decipher. Edge rushers are a lot easier to scheme for. Which poses a problem for this system because of what elite ones cost...which tends to impact talent and depth behind them...Just ask the Colts for example.

There are two 3-4 teams competing in the last game of the season on Sunday...

 

[DarrylStingley]

Reiss is probably right but BB isn't likely to adjust his system based on what he learned this year. One thing we know is that BB doesn't seem to react or overreact year to year. He has a plan and sticks to it. Sometimes, in my view, to a fault.

 

[borg]

I'm glad someone else is saying it, I've been saying this for years. When Ninkovich, TBC, Shawn Crable, Pierre Woods are the best you can come up with for 3-4 OLB's, it may be time to change the criteria (I like Cunningham and think he will develop into a good player but they need more 1 sack from him) . I also said in another thread this week that they should draft Von Miller if he is availiable, even if it means playing him only on passing downs. They have to find a way to pressure the QB.

Amen. Now I can understand BB seeking the complete OLB on 1st downs and short yardage 3rd downs when the run/pass is a toss up. But I have always scratched my head as to why he loads the roster with special teams "specialists" but neglects the pass rush "specialist". TBC is as close as they have, and it will be interesting to see if BB is willing to continue paying his salary considering his disappearing act this year.

Personally, I'd prefer 4 attack DL on third down that shoot gaps instead of locking up. As I've said in a draft thread, give me Jordan and Watts bookending Wilfork and Wright on 3rd down. Jordan seems more complete in the BB 3-4 model, but Watts is just a QB seeking animal that would instill some passion and fire in this defense.

A draft of DL Jordan and OLB Miller could be the ticket though. Miller has the athletic skills to rush the QB, drop in coverage, or blanket the RB that releases out of the backfield. My pet peeve with the current defense is the total lack of concern for releasing RB. Either it is a scheme malfunction or a poor matchup for our OLBs. ....Miller time.

The Patriots can afford a luxory or two this year....with their bounty of picks. All I know is that the 3rd down deficiencies have to be solved NOW. Give Brady more chances to operate and this team could be scary good....in the playoffs. Add some extra pressure on the QB and imagine the INTs this secondary could amass.

 

[flycessna]

I am a little confused by this...

Are we saying he should go after a pure 4-3 edge pass rusher because he would be more effective when we run sub packages...

Or are we going after a 4-3 pure edge pass rusher because they are easier to draft and would provide an immediate solution??

I have to say I am not all the well versed on the 3-4 vs the 4-3 and the dynamics of running either but it appears to me that giving the right personal the 3-4 is pretty effective and in of itself causes mayham.. Losing seymore has hurt this defense... Even with ty coming back I almost say draft a top DL with that 17th pick....



BB sticks to a plan to a fault??

I look at the teams success and realize we are very lucky to have a guy like BB.