Trading Up for Robert Quinn Bandwagon

[WesWelker83]

I am starting this thread for all who are in agreement or disagreement that we should trade up for Robert Quinn. I really think Quinn might drop in the draft down to the 8-11 range. We could trade 17 and 60 to Washington for the 10th pick. I could see Washington wanting to move down as well because they want a QB and the value isn't there at all at 10. They could still get their guy at 17 and pick up an extra pick. Washington has tons of needs and they need as many picks as they can get.

Anyways, I think Quinn is exactly what this team needs. Hes 6-5 270 which are the BB measureables and I expect him to run in the 4.6s. Quinn has an explosive first step and can bend the edge around the OT to the QB. This is one trait that not one OLB has on our entire team right now. His closing burst and quickness really stand out on film. I think his upside is unreal in this department as well. Right now he only has a speed rush and a rip move but BB could mold him into an unreal pass rusher once he learns more moves.

Versus the run he can set the edge and hold it. He plays with leverage and has a strong inital punch to discard blocks. He fights hard to work through blocks as well. Great wrap up tackler in small areas. He really moves well laterally. Hes disciplined and stays home vs misdirection and he plays with a high motor.

I haven't seen him in coverage ever but look at this from ESPN: Appears to have enough fluidity to hold up if asked to drop into coverage. How many times did Cunningham drop into coverage at Florida too? I don't ever remember him dropping and covering guys and I watched that Fla team alot.

Quinn made Anthony Costanzo look like garbage in pass protection in 09. This video is on youtube and shows many plays in the game. I saw Costanzo get the better of him twice in runs plays (one time when Quinn got blown off the ball and another when he didnt set the edge) and other then that Quinn demolished Costanzo.

Quinn isn't perfect. He needs to improve his instincts and he needs to improve his strength which will help him anchor against the run. Other then that I don't see any weaknesses besides lack of experience in coverage although his physical ability looks like he can hold up. I think his upside is unreal as well. Hes only 20 years old turning 21 in May.

We aren't going to win a Super Bowl with Cunningham, Ninkovich and TBC are our OLB core. I understand that pass rush can come in different areas like the DL but one way or another OLBs need to collapse the pocket with the DL. I know sacks aren't the "be all and end all" and that BB thinks pressures and hurries can be just as effective by forcing INTs but this team had one of the weakest pass rushes in the league at 36 sacks and the worst 3rd down % defense in the league. I still think our OLBs are weak at rushing and the stats back this up. I don't know if there is a website out there that tracks hurries and pressures but we sucked at this too.

We don't have Willie Mcginest, Mike Vrabel, Rosie Colvin, and Roman Phifer anymore. We need to go get the BB prototype and I am sorry to say I don't see another guy in this draft available that fits these requirements.

Do others think Quinn is the answer?
If not who is the best OLB in this draft for the Patriots.

 

[SirApropos]

I totally agree about the moving up but think it will be Marcell Dareus they can get at #10 instead of Quinn.

 

[Sciz]

NFL Forum :: - Why Robert Quinn Won't be a New England Patriot
This thread just popped up this afternoon. Good read.

 

[TheBaronPatriot]

There are two missing pieces not captured here.
We know the Pats love to draft players that are smart and love football.

Judging by his 1 year suspension when he could have had a 4 game instead I'd question the love of the game part. Don't get me wrong I like the guy.

Second, is he football smart? When BB and co ask him to break down some film how will he do?

 

[stinkypete]

I think Von Miller is the guy to move up for, far more productive player, though his size might keep it from happening.

 

[jsull87]

I think Von Miller is the guy to move up for, far more productive player, though his size might keep it from happening.

move up for von miller? you have people debating if we should even take him with our 28/33.

i am one who... if quinn is there 10-12 then yes i would love to move up as he is a great talent in my opinion.

But i can also live with DE (JORDAN), or an OT there as well there are just alot of options. I also have to see more of Quinn but the tape from a year ago is phenominal

 

[MaineMan]

NFL Forum :: - Why Robert Quinn Won't be a New England Patriot
This thread just popped up this afternoon. Good read.

Yes, good thread. Thanks! Good synopsis of the questions about Quinn from the OP and his main antagonist is another fine example of someone who becomes so emotionally invested in a player that they'll argue their projection as if it were incontrovertible fact.

The point for me, though, is not if Quinn is a legitimate "10" or a "Gholston", but that (A) there are guys who'll be available later, where we already have picks, who might be "8s" and still a significant upgrade over who we have now at OLB, and (B) the Pats have many more holes to fill so the cost in picks to move up for Quinn is simply too high for the potential benefit (IMHO). IOW, as usual, "one guy" isn't going to fix everything that needs fixing and trading up to get him will necessarily leave at least a couple other areas of need completely unaddressed.

 

[Marqui]

Completely agree with the OP.

 

[borg]

The image of 4 DLs successfully attacking the Patriots Oline in both the Giants and Jets playoff games has me wishing for a similar 3rd down package. Getting pressure with only 4 players allows the D to flood the secondary. Wilfork and Wright bookended by a Watts/Jordan type would be a nice start....why not both

 

[RxJock1120]

I am starting this thread for all who are in agreement or disagreement that we should trade up for Robert Quinn. I really think Quinn might drop in the draft down to the 8-11 range. We could trade 17 and 60 to Washington for the 10th pick. I could see Washington wanting to move down as well because they want a QB and the value isn't there at all at 10. They could still get their guy at 17 and pick up an extra pick. Washington has tons of needs and they need as many picks as they can get.

Anyways, I think Quinn is exactly what this team needs. Hes 6-5 270 which are the BB measureables and I expect him to run in the 4.6s. Quinn has an explosive first step and can bend the edge around the OT to the QB. This is one trait that not one OLB has on our entire team right now. His closing burst and quickness really stand out on film. I think his upside is unreal in this department as well. Right now he only has a speed rush and a rip move but BB could mold him into an unreal pass rusher once he learns more moves.

Versus the run he can set the edge and hold it. He plays with leverage and has a strong inital punch to discard blocks. He fights hard to work through blocks as well. Great wrap up tackler in small areas. He really moves well laterally. Hes disciplined and stays home vs misdirection and he plays with a high motor.

I haven't seen him in coverage ever but look at this from ESPN: Appears to have enough fluidity to hold up if asked to drop into coverage. How many times did Cunningham drop into coverage at Florida too? I don't ever remember him dropping and covering guys and I watched that Fla team alot.

Quinn made Anthony Costanzo look like garbage in pass protection in 09. This video is on youtube and shows many plays in the game. I saw Costanzo get the better of him twice in runs plays (one time when Quinn got blown off the ball and another when he didnt set the edge) and other then that Quinn demolished Costanzo.

Quinn isn't perfect. He needs to improve his instincts and he needs to improve his strength which will help him anchor against the run. Other then that I don't see any weaknesses besides lack of experience in coverage although his physical ability looks like he can hold up. I think his upside is unreal as well. Hes only 20 years old turning 21 in May.

We aren't going to win a Super Bowl with Cunningham, Ninkovich and TBC are our OLB core. I understand that pass rush can come in different areas like the DL but one way or another OLBs need to collapse the pocket with the DL. I know sacks aren't the "be all and end all" and that BB thinks pressures and hurries can be just as effective by forcing INTs but this team had one of the weakest pass rushes in the league at 36 sacks and the worst 3rd down % defense in the league. I still think our OLBs are weak at rushing and the stats back this up. I don't know if there is a website out there that tracks hurries and pressures but we sucked at this too.

We don't have Willie Mcginest, Mike Vrabel, Rosie Colvin, and Roman Phifer anymore. We need to go get the BB prototype and I am sorry to say I don't see another guy in this draft available that fits these requirements.

Do others think Quinn is the answer?
If not who is the best OLB in this draft for the Patriots.

Robert Quinn is very inconsistent! His production come in bunches and on top of that there are significant off-the-field questions. How bright do you have to be to refuse taking money from an agent when you are 1 year away from being a top 5 pick and a multi-millionaire. My gues is....NOT VERY BRIGHT AT ALL!!

Aldon Smith from Missouri however is a beast I would love in a Pats uniform. Check out his YouTube video against Colorado's Nate Solders. He emberrases the top LT in 2011 draft. Alfonso has a violent burst, extremely long arms and a non-stop motor.

 

[WesWelker83]

Yes, good thread. Thanks! Good synopsis of the questions about Quinn from the OP and his main antagonist is another fine example of someone who becomes so emotionally invested in a player that they'll argue their projection as if it were incontrovertible fact.

The point for me, though, is not if Quinn is a legitimate "10" or a "Gholston", but that (A) there are guys who'll be available later, where we already have picks, who might be "8s" and still a significant upgrade over who we have now at OLB, and (B) the Pats have many more holes to fill so the cost in picks to move up for Quinn is simply too high for the potential benefit (IMHO). IOW, as usual, "one guy" isn't going to fix everything that needs fixing and trading up to get him will necessarily leave at least a couple other areas of need completely unaddressed.

Who is available later in the draft that fits our scheme at OLB?
Kerrigan - 4-3 DE, cant cover or play in space
A. Smith - Even more raw then Quinn, cant defend run or set edge
Houston - Cant play the run or set the edge, looks smaller then his measureables indicate
Beal - doesnt have one NFL skill

I think even though we may have holes now those needs could change after free agency. I think we need one OLB, one DE, one OG, one RB, one WR. At rb we really just need depth too so a high pick wont be used there. We have the amount of picks to trade up and still fill our needs.

 

[WesWelker83]

NFL Forum :: - Why Robert Quinn Won't be a New England Patriot
This thread just popped up this afternoon. Good read.

This thread was a good read. The competition argument is weak to me. Quinn dominated the best OT he faced all year sophomore year and Costanzo is going to be a 1st round pick! I didn't watch the other games either but just because he didnt have sacks or tackles doesnt mean he didn't play well. He could have had hurries or pressures. They also could have been double teaming him or chip blocking him. Nobody saw these games in that thread. Quinn was also only 19 at the time. This kid is only going to get better.

Jermaine Cunningham's best game of the year was week 13 vs the Jets and he only had 5 tackles 0 sacks which doesnt look like an impressive line but he was making plays or an impact on every single play out there.

 

[MaineMan]

This thread was a good read. The competition argument is weak to me. Quinn dominated the best OT he faced all year sophomore year and Costanzo is going to be a 1st round pick! I didn't watch the other games either but just because he didnt have sacks or tackles doesnt mean he didn't play well. He could have had hurries or pressures. They also could have been double teaming him or chip blocking him. Nobody saw these games in that thread. Quinn was also only 19 at the time. This kid is only going to get better.

Jermaine Cunningham's best game of the year was week 13 vs the Jets and he only had 5 tackles 0 sacks which doesnt look like an impressive line but he was making plays or an impact on every single play out there.

Well, the Quinn of 2009 dominated the Castonzo of 2009, not the Castonzo of today - the Castonzo who's played a whole season more and is NOW considered a 1st round pick. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that Castonzo put that year's experience to good use and that the Quinn of 2009 might not be able to dominate the Castonzo of today.

The other point being that - what has Quinn done to improve HIS game since? What CAN he have done in a year out of football to improve as much as Castonzo may have? Where's the proof that Quinn is even as good as he was in 2009?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Are we watching the same footgage of Quinn vs Costanzo?
YouTube - Robert Quinn vs. Anthony Castonzo

Because I see Quinn consistently getting pressure on the QB, batting down balls, and forcing early throws that led to interceptions.

That being said, I was concerned of what footage I saw of Quinn defending against the run. He did not seem instinctive in spotting the ball carrier and holding the edge. I think Quinn has the size and physical tools that BB looks for in an OLB. But I don't think he's worth trading up for. If he drops to 17, then yeah I'd have to consider him though.

 

[andrewgarrr]

I haven't seen any highlights or read anything about a player being a complete fit to 34 Patriots OLB. I think we'll avoid this position in the first round. DL and OL.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I haven't seen any highlights or read anything about a player being a complete fit to 34 Patriots OLB. I think we'll avoid this position in the first round. DL and OL.

Agreed. Risking a 1st rounder on a projection is risky, but trading up to do so would be a bit crazy.

Plus if we can get a great DE, that will instantly improve our entire OLB group. We do need another OLB though.

 

[bucky]

A. Smith - Even more raw then Quinn, cant defend run or set edge
Houston - Cant play the run or set the edge, looks smaller then his measureables indicate

I'm just curious what it is that you know about Aldon Smith, Houston, and Quinn that make you so sure that Quinn is the only one of the 3 who can set the edge. If anything, Quinn has the least experience of the 3 playing out of a 2 pt stance or dropping into coverage.

 

[rookBoston]

Not excited by the idea of trading up for Quinn. One year wonder and way too hyped, which has inflated reasonable expectations for what he could be as a pro. I am reminded of Vernon Ghoulston who got so much predraft buzz that Mangini felt he had to trade up to steal him away from us. Has been a complete dud as pro.

Mark me down as another guy who thinks the only guy worth trading up for is Marcel Dareus, especially if Gerald Warren is not re-signed. Other than that, I'm all for trading down and taking the next sure-fire starter, a la McCourty or Mankins, later in the first, whether it's a player at OLB or not. I think Ingram is actually a reasonable option.

The guy I would target to compete at OLB is Beal. He's got a lot of playing time against good competition, and has done all the things in college that we'd ask him to do in the NFL: set the edge, drop into coverage, pressure the passer.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Agreed. Risking a 1st rounder on a projection is risky, but trading up to do so would be a bit crazy.

Plus if we can get a great DE, that will instantly improve our entire OLB group. We do need another OLB though.

Agreed. Draft a defensive end and go after Hali or Woodley. We all know BB likes his LB's seasoned anyway.

There's only a handful of players I'd use extra draft picks on and most of them aren't rookies.

Edit...I do like Cameron Jordans versatility on the line. I think that will speak volumes to Belichick. I wouldn't mind a trade up there.

 

[WesWelker83]

Agreed. Draft a defensive end and go after Hali or Woodley. We all know BB likes his LB's seasoned anyway.

There's only a handful of players I'd use extra draft picks on and most of them aren't rookies.

Edit...I do like Cameron Jordans versatility on the line. I think that will speak volumes to Belichick. I wouldn't mind a trade up there.

As much as Id love to have Woodley or Hali on this team I don't think BB likes paying that much for a LB. Woodley would be sick here though.