Can we now end the "Just give them time" excuses?

[JoeSixPat]

Of course you look tighter using the same two receivers all the time.

With your rosey colored hindsight glasses, you probably remember Deion and Givens being healthy all the time.

Of course that wasn't the case. Let's remember what we really had at receiver for significant stretches.

Dedric Ward

jj stokes

Bethel Johnson

Andre Davis

Tim Dwight

Our 4 new guys looking a little better now? With 6 more games left?

J6Pat,

I get awfully tired of people demanding that Rome be built in a Day! This team is a glass almost full not a little little bit empty.

Wow - first of all I don't think anyone's been making excuses for the Defense - they haven't really needed to.

As far as the offense, does everyone REALLY think this team is playing as well as the SB winners in 2001, 2003, & 2004?

Trivia question for you all. How many teams have the Patriots beaten this year who have winning records?

Now here's an easier one. How many teams with .500 records or less do you expect we'll face in the playoffs?

I'm not all that down on the team - but I don't try to kid myself either.

I'm not just a homer who sees only the good and none of thebad. If they play as inconsistently as they have been playing to date, we're in for a big disappointment. And that includes the coaching.

If they play like they are capable of playing - with no more excuses about a "new" offense creeping into their minds - this will be another great offseason.

 

[pats1]

Wow - first of all I don't think anyone's been making excuses for the Defense - they haven't really needed to.

As far as the offense, does everyone REALLY think this team is playing as well as the SB winners in 2001, 2003, & 2004?

Trivia question for you all. How many teams have the Patriots beaten this year who have winning records?

I'm not all that down on the team - but I don't try to kid myself either.

I'm not just a homer who sees only the good and none of thebad. If they play as inconsistently as they have been playing to date, we're in for a big disappointment. And that includes the coaching.

If they play like they are capable of playing - with no more excuses about a "new" offense creeping into their minds - this will be another great offseason.

How many teams with winning records (at season's end) did the Pats beat in 2001?

1. The 10-6 New York Jets. (By a mind-boggling blowout score of 17-16, too)

The offense?

I think it's safe that A) The offensive personnel on the team right now trumps the 2001 squad by lightyears, and edges out the Antowain-attack of the 2003 offense and that B) The methodical precision of the 2001, 2003, and 2004 offenses wasn't replicated earlier on in the season, but has come on as of late, the Jets and Colts games notwithstanding.

There seems to be some mythical assumption out there that the 2003 and 2004 teams had shutdown defenses, light-em-up offenses, and dominated their opponents at every turn. Not true.

As Reiss puts it:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extras/askreiss/11_21_06/

As for the Patriots being an imitation of their past championship teams, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you suggesting that the Patriots never fumbled in their prior championship seasons? Are you saying that when the Patriots went 14-2 in both 2003 and 2004 that they won all their games cleanly and those games were never in doubt? I covered the teams in those years and I'll tell you, they had their struggles as well.

Enough with this 'homer' crap too. PatsNutMe both live in Homerville and are proud of it.

If you want to stay skeptical, continually reminding yourself of how many teams with winning records the Pats have beaten, that's fine. But nobody is care come playoff time. It's the second season. Every team is 0-0. Enough with the winning probabilities of each seed. Enough with how the team performs during the regular season. In the regular season, the objective is to MAKE THE PLAYOFFS, any way possible! In fact, I consider each ROUND of the playoffs to be a separate season. Once that NFL Playoff logo is painted on the field, it's only the 60 minutes of football that week that matter. From there, the sole objective is to get to the next round - the next season.

Whether you win 3-0 or 30-0 in the first round of the playoffs has no bearing on the second round. Whether you beat 8 'quality' teams or 0 'quality' teams in the regular season has no bearing on the playoffs.

 

[Seymour93]

185 - 317 - 14 - 6.8 Seahawks

199 - 334 - 9 - 6.87 Patriots

Since we have more completions for more yardage and a better average than the team with Darryl Jackson, Deion and 7 mil a year Burleson,the question is:

Give them time for what?

Will our passing game get better? Probably. Is that a bad thing?

Also 6th rated passing O in AFC by NFL.com, (Don't know what their formula is).

Fifth rated run O BTW.

It would be interesting to look at all the stats for our opponents and compare the one's we've lost to and the one's we've won against. But then again arguing over stats is for Colts fans. The 70,000, including the QB himself, who were there can tell you the offense, despite the stats, wasn't clicking against the Broncos, Colts, Jets, and wasn't anything special against the Bills and Dolphins either.

 

[RayClay]

It would be interesting to look at all the stats for our opponents and compare the one's we've lost to and the one's we've won against. But then again arguing over stats is for Colts fans. The 70,000, including the QB himself, who were there can tell you the offense, despite the stats, wasn't clicking against the Broncos, Colts, Jets, and wasn't anything special against the Bills and Dolphins either.

No one said their offense has been clicking on all cylinders. Those are the stats using a new running back and 4 new receivers. 3 of the receivers had virtually no training camp.

I think they're going to get better.

Did I think that when they were using Stokes and Ward at the end of seasons? No.

Fortunately the Patriots play one game at a time and don't worry or quit as long as they have practice and games to improve.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Yup - guess I am imagining things -

Thanks for correcting me guys.

This team is playing better ball than any we've ever had on the field. The lackluster performances are no doubt designed to lull opponents into complacency and we can take comfort that come February, the true fans will be reminding us that we just need to give everyone a little bit more time.

 

[RayClay]

I guess it's how you look at it.

I thought 35-0 was pretty good, but I guess all but three games are exhibition season.

 

[PatsSteve1]

OK, thanks for enlightening me.

* Well someone has to - It's what's called a prediction. Ever make one?
IMO, the Patriots need to beat the Bears for thier own confidence. They know they haven't beaten a top team in 2 years and have now lost 3 games at home this year. (last year's win against the Steelers was before they went on THIER run which I guess you think meant nothing to thier confidence) I would rather the Patriots beat the Bears and lose another game later in the year than lose to the Bears and not lose another game. That's what's called an opinion.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

You and NEM should compare notes on current meds.

You honestly think Vinny was brought in to be a quarterback? I believe he was brought in to take the palce of Doug FLutie and I think the Pats offense is missing that presence more than we know and think.

 

[RayClay]

OK, thanks for enlightening me.

* Well someone has to - It's what's called a prediction. Ever make one?
IMO, the Patriots need to beat the Bears for thier own confidence. They know they haven't beaten a top team in 2 years and have now lost 3 games at home this year. (last year's win against the Steelers was before they went on THIER run which I guess you think meant nothing to thier confidence) I would rather the Patriots beat the Bears and lose another game later in the year than lose to the Bears and not lose another game. That's what's called an opinion.

I guess Brady will eventually gain confidence in himself. We can only hope.

 

[pats1]

OK, thanks for enlightening me.

* Well someone has to - It's what's called a prediction. Ever make one?
IMO, the Patriots need to beat the Bears for thier own confidence. They know they haven't beaten a top team in 2 years and have now lost 3 games at home this year. (last year's win against the Steelers was before they went on THIER run which I guess you think meant nothing to thier confidence) I would rather the Patriots beat the Bears and lose another game later in the year than lose to the Bears and not lose another game. That's what's called an opinion.

Predictions are bull****.

And if the Patriots need to beat the Bears for playoff confidence, you aren't watching the same Pats I have.

 

[pats1]

Yup - guess I am imagining things -

Thanks for correcting me guys.

This team is playing better ball than any we've ever had on the field. The lackluster performances are no doubt designed to lull opponents into complacency and we can take comfort that come February, the true fans will be reminding us that we just need to give everyone a little bit more time.

And what were you saying after the lackluster performances in 2004 (Miami, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Indy) or in 2003 (Washington, Buffalo, Indy, Houston, Miami)?

 

[RayClay]

Wow - first of all I don't think anyone's been making excuses for the Defense - they haven't really needed to.

As far as the offense, does everyone REALLY think this team is playing as well as the SB winners in 2001, 2003, & 2004?

Trivia question for you all. How many teams have the Patriots beaten this year who have winning records?

Now here's an easier one. How many teams with .500 records or less do you expect we'll face in the playoffs?

I'm not all that down on the team - but I don't try to kid myself either.

I'm not just a homer who sees only the good and none of thebad. If they play as inconsistently as they have been playing to date, we're in for a big disappointment. And that includes the coaching.

If they play like they are capable of playing - with no more excuses about a "new" offense creeping into their minds - this will be another great offseason.

10th game

2001-Patriots lose to Rams bringing their record to 5-5.

That's two losses in last 4 games, (Denver). Apparently this young team still had the confidence to beat the Rams in the Super Bowl.

2006-Patriots 35-0 over Green Bay Brady throws for 4 TDs and no Ints to bring record to 7-3.

Obviously can't go 14-2 at this point.

 

[PatsSteve1]

Predictions are bull****.

* Well, Mr Bull****, I see you have a prediction in the guess the score thread -

And if the Patriots need to beat the Bears for playoff confidence, you aren't watching the same Pats I have.

* The typical internet board reply. I must be watching a different game. Very original. And worthless. The Patriots team I've been watching this year hasn't shown itself to be a top tier team yet. I don't watch games with rose colored glasses on like you do. It has a chance to be a SB contender but hasn't shown that yet against top tier teams. They can start Sunday.

 

[pats1]

* The typical internet board reply. I must be watching a different game. Very original. And worthless. The Patriots team I've been watching this year hasn't shown itself to be a top tier team yet. I don't watch games with rose colored glasses on like you do. It has a chance to be a SB contender but hasn't shown that yet against top tier teams. They can start Sunday.

First off, please use the quote button to reply to posts. It's confusing with broken code and such to distinguish post from quote. As the multi-quote feature doesn't seem to be working correctly, I wouldn't use it.

Secondly, don't hold your breath waiting for this team to "prove itself." Last time I checked, this isn't the BCS. Losing against "better" teams doesn't eliminate you from title contention. That's the beauty of PLAYOFFS. Nobody is sitting at the Super Bowl Gates with a clipboard, only admitting "elite" teams.

This is NOT the time to judge a team. This Patriots team doesn't have to proven a blessed thing to you, by beating "elite" teams. The playoffs are a completely different animal, with the objective of the regular season being to reach them. If the Patriots can't beat "elite" teams then, it's over. They don't have to "start" anything Sunday.

The only bearing the result of regular season games have is apparently to your very questionable faith in this team. That's it. And if you believe it has any appreciable effect on the Patriots', you're sadly mistaken. Also, the whole concept of "top tier team" in the REGULAR season is simply something to make you satisfied/dissatisfied with a team. It's a name; a category. That's it.

Right now, there's two emerging categories: playoff teams, and non-playoff teams.

But until the conference champions are decided, and two teams travel to Miami having defeated the rest of the pack, THEN we can talk about "top tier teams." Until then, I don't want to hear anything of it.

The Patriots are very close to wrapping up the title of "playoff team." On November 25, that's all that matters.

 

[mgteich]

We are what we are, period. We are one of the top offenses and one of the top defenses in the NFL. By almost everyone's count we are one of the top 8 teams in the NFL. COmparing to 2001 is ludicrous. This team is much better than the 5-5 team at this point in the season, and is arguably as good as any of the SUper Bowl teams. In the end, that may not be good enough, or it might be good enough. That IS why they play the games.

Of course, we shouldn't use excuses. None are needed. We are two games ahead in the division, playing one game at a time, and preparing for the second season.

We have to beat the Bears so that the team can have confidence???? I think that we will win easily against the bears, but the game is far, far from a must win.

If there are questions as we look ahead, they are not on offense. The question mark, the very big question mark, is with regard to health of our defense, especially the secondary.

 

[Robdude]

This is an odd discussion most people seem to be having on here. I think I would like to try and answer the question that started this thread.

No, we cannot end the "just give them time" excuses. Because I do not think it is an "excuse". First of all we have a very good offense. Have they had bad games? Yes. But, do any of you Pats Fans go into a game thinking they will not be able to move the ball? Ofcourse not. We expect the offense to move the ball well against everyone because we know it is a good offense. I think it is safe to say that anyone can look at the schedule for the week and make a list of the offenses that will most likely struggle and the Pats won't be on this list. I would be curious to see someone come up with 6 teams with better offenses.

Look at what the offense is asked to do with what they have. We have at least 3 rookies that are asked to be major contributors (Maroney, Jackson, O'Cal) and yes they are all still rookies.

We have 2 receivers that should know the system by know and that is Caldwell and Brown. Certainly just my opinion but I think both are performing better then expected.

After those players we have Gabriel, who is a mystery. Gaffney who STILL HAS TO LEARN THE SYSTEM. When Graham was hurt (and still might be) someone was forced to learn his role.

This same discussion came about during pre season with different names attached. I will say I like the fact that BB and staff are not afraid to bring in new players to fix problems they notice. But, it does cause the offense to be in flux for a continued period of time.

 

[PatsSteve1]

First off, please use the quote button to reply to posts. It's confusing with broken code and such to distinguish post from quote. As the multi-quote feature doesn't seem to be working correctly, I wouldn't use it.

* 1st off, I'll reply any dam way I want and I don't need permisiin from you -

This is NOT the time to judge a team. This Patriots team doesn't have to proven a blessed thing to you, by beating "elite" teams. The playoffs are a completely different animal, with the objective of the regular season being to reach them. If the Patriots can't beat "elite" teams then, it's over. They don't have to "start" anything Sunday.

* I'll judge them any dam time I want. You have your opininon and I have mine. Who are you trying to convince. Yourself?

The only bearing the result of regular season games have is apparently to your very questionable faith in this team. That's it.

* You have no right to querstion my anything as a Patriots fan. I don't go by faith I go by what I think and see. Without rose colored glasses

But until the conference champions are decided, and two teams travel to Miami having defeated the rest of the pack, THEN we can talk about "top tier teams." Until then, I don't want to hear anything of it.

* I'll post any dam thing I want. No I don't think any team that makes the playoffs has a chance to win the Super Bowl. I guess you do.

The Patriots are very close to wrapping up the title of "playoff team." On November 25, that's all that matters.

* In your mind. You shouldn't post opinion as if it's uncontested fact. I said from the start it's my opinion. Can't anyone have an opinion other than ours? Apparently you don't think so.

 

[pats1]

* In your mind. You shouldn't post opinion as if it's uncontested fact. I said from the start it's my opinion. Can't anyone have an opinion other than ours? Apparently you don't think so.

Not every team that's in the playoffs has a chance to go to the Super Bowl?

When did Polian make that rule?

 

[PatsSteve1]

Not every team that's in the playoffs has a chance to go to the Super Bowl?

* At least replay to what I said. I said "win" the Super Bowl. And they don't. I guarantee the lowest seed team in the NFC won't win the Super Bowl. That's my opinion. There'll be other teams that make the playoffs that won't win the Super Bowl. That's also my opinion.

When did Polian make that rule?

* Ah, another original internet replay. I bet your getting a lot of laughs -You seem to have trouble telling opinion from fact.
Fact, yse every team that makes the playoffs "could" win the Super Bowl. Opinion, no they won't -

 

[RayClay]

* Ah, another original internet replay. I bet your getting a lot of laughs -You seem to have trouble telling opinion from fact.
Fact, yse every team that makes the playoffs "could" win the Super Bowl. Opinion, no they won't -

Apparently you're not deterred by the facts, even the most recent one.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/12/26/SPGLLGDC7N1.DTL

Pittsburgh (10-5) only has to beat Detroit, at home, in its final game to clinch the last wild-card spot.