Immediate impact pass rush specialist?

[Water Boy]

Every year we grapple with finding the elusive prototypical 3/4 OLB for BB's system. One who can play with a hand down and rush the QB, set the edge, and drop into coverage. This type of player takes time to develop in the system. However, we also know that BB is not afraid to have role players on the roster. Case in point is TBC. Due to his skill set, his one job is to rush the QB. TBC did not have a good year in 2010/2011 IMO.

In your opinion, is there a player in this draft who could replace TBC and give us an immediate impact as an outside pass rush specialist? A player who may not develop into a prototypical BB 3/4 OLB, but who can pin his ears back and simply rush the QB? If so, who would you draft and how high of a pick would you be willing to use?

 

[MaineMan]

Every year we grapple with finding the elusive prototypical 3/4 OLB for BB's system. One who can play with a hand down and rush the QB, set the edge, and drop into coverage. This type of player takes time to develop in the system. However, we also know that BB is not afraid to have role players on the roster. Case in point is TBC. Due to his skill set, his one job is to rush the QB. TBC did not have a good year in 2010/2011 IMO.

In your opinion, is there a player in this draft who could replace TBC and give us an immediate impact as an outside pass rush specialist? A player who may not develop into a prototypical BB 3/4 OLB, but who can pin his ears back and simply rush the QB? If so, who would you draft and how high of a pick would you be willing to use?

And the other question is, "Do we need to spend a draft pick at all to acquire a pass rush specialist?" By that, I mean a guy who wouldn't necessarily have a lot of versatility to begin with and might not ever develop any.

McGinest was a 1st rounder, but he was already on the roster when BB arrived.
Vrabel was, IIRC, a free agent
Colvin was a free agent
TBC was a 7th rounder (re-signed after he was cut by SF)
Crable was a 3rd rounder
Thomas was a free agent
Burgess cost us a 3rd and a 5th
Eric Moore was a free agent

Seems to me that, aside from McGinest, we've gotten more production out of guys who didn't cost us anything in the draft.

 

[upstater1]

It's a good sign that Belichick went after Thomas and Colvin. it means he sees some value in FA pass rushers coming in.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'd like to get Tamba Hali if we're going the free agent route. This is assuming that Ngata will get locked up by the Ravens.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

I think we have something in Ninkovich and Cunningham. Cunningham has a strong start and sort of petered out, and Ninkovich really showed us something down the home stretch and was the only guy to even get close to Sanchez. Obviously, neither of them is Julius Peppers or Willie Mac, but they're about as good as we've had in recent memory.

The problem with the pass rush is that Vince can't do it alone in the trenches. If we can land a decent big ugly in the draft we could be in business.

 

[Homeland Defense]

I think the argument that certain guys can't play in this system is overrated. I think talented guys like Clay Mathews and Peppers can play in any system.

 

[Sciz]

I think the argument that certain guys can't play in this system is overrated. I think talented guys like Clay Mathews and Peppers can play in any system.

Peppers absolutely. He's a freak. Matthews, on the other hand, has strengths (speed and burst) that aren't especially needed in the scheme and weaknesses (bulk, ability to set the edge, pass-rush moves other than speed move) that are almost required in the scheme. When Gronk can take Matthews out of a play by himself, then that's a sign that Matthews wouldn't fit at OLB in our scheme.

 

[Marqui]

I think we have something in Ninkovich and Cunningham. Cunningham has a strong start and sort of petered out, and Ninkovich really showed us something down the home stretch and was the only guy to even get close to Sanchez. Obviously, neither of them is Julius Peppers or Willie Mac, but they're about as good as we've had in recent memory.

The problem with the pass rush is that Vince can't do it alone in the trenches. If we can land a decent big ugly in the draft we could be in business.

Ninkovich is terrible. Always will be.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

I think Cunningham will be sacking people from that position for years to come. He needs to get stronger as evidenced by him often getting to the qb but rarely coming up with the sack. As he gets stronger and more used to the role those qb pressures will turn into qb sacks and he will set the edge more effectively.

I think we need one more good all around outside backer to make this defense elite for years to come. To me that guy is Kerrigan from Purdue. He reminds me of Vrable in that he isn't an elite athlete but is intelligent and has a motor that never stops.

 

[letekro]

I think we need one more good all around outside backer to make this defense elite for years to come. To me that guy is Kerrigan from Purdue. He reminds me of Vrable in that he isn't an elite athlete but is intelligent and has a motor that never stops.

I would rather draft a more explosive athlete such as Houston from Georgia and teach him up on playing the run. Worst case scenario, he is a demon in sub packages (i.e., more than 50% of snaps) and Ninko plays in the base.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I would rather draft a more explosive athlete such as Houston from Georgia and teach him up on playing the run. Worst case scenario, he is a demon in sub packages (i.e., more than 50% of snaps) and Ninko plays in the base.

Here's the problem with that thinking. Tackling is about courage and attitude. And neither one of those adjectives currently describes Houston. Now it is true that the defense was new at Georgia and he may have been asked to play a passive way, but unless that is the case....

Why spend a 1st or high second on a guy that won't hold up at the POA and can't set a hard edge?

 

[patchick]

Hmm...this is the second thread asking "what about a pure pin-back-your-ears pass rush specialist who wouldn't be a real, full-featured OLB"?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...0-pass-rush-specialist-worth-top-40-pick.html

Curiously, both times it quickly turned into "You bet! An all-around awesome impact player at OLB is exactly what this team needs!"

 

[mgteich]

And Belichick can again wait until this awesome top 5 talent stud slips to us. Or he can consider those less than perfect.

The question is indeed whether a situational pass rusher is worth a top 40 pick. OBVIOUSLY, "an all-around awesome impact player" is worth TWO of our first three picks.

The other thread was started before the season ended.

We have had a WHOLE WEEK to relect. We were the worst in the league on defending 3rd down. Belichick has NEVER seen such poor production on 3rd down.

When Belichick relects on this over the next 3 months, he will find the answer. He's the best. Personally, I think that he will conclude that there is no Seymour, McGinest or Vrabel out there. He has waited and waited. Perhaps another strategy is called for. There is no question of analysis. We do need to improve on our 3rd down production,
====

Third down not the only priority of the offseason, but the others are relatively straighforward,
A) We must maintain the quality of our OT.
B) We must add a couple of running backs.
C) We need to have a plan at wide receiver. Consider our situation if Branch were out for a few games. We need downfield help.
D) We need to develop another safety. It take a year, We have only Chung and Brown signed for 2012.
===========

As I say, these three are straigtforward. Solving the situation on 3rd down is not.

Hmm...this is the second thread asking "what about a pure pin-back-your-ears pass rush specialist who wouldn't be a real, full-featured OLB"?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...0-pass-rush-specialist-worth-top-40-pick.html

Curiously, both times it quickly turned into "You bet! An all-around awesome impact player at OLB is exactly what this team needs!"

 

[MaineMan]

Ninkovich is terrible. Always will be.

Ninkovich, in is first year fulltime at OLB in BB's 3-4, performed about the same as Vrabel did in HIS first year fulltime in BB's 3-4.

So, y'know, horsepuckey.

 

[PatriotSpy]

Bruce Carter, north carolina.

Pros:

Bruce Carter is yet another top defensive prospect from the University of North Carolina. He is an explosive athlete that uses a disciplined approach to the game of football. He has decent size but good speed. He uses his speed and athleticism to create pressure in the offensive backfield. He covers a ton of ground and is threat to make a play form anywhere on the field, which is evident by the 6 blocked kicks he last season. He would fit nicely as an outside linebacker in the 3-4 defensive scheme because he has the ability to get to the quarterback on a blitz but also is sound when dropping back into coverage. Carter is a hard working individual and gains praise from his teammates about being a tremendous leader.

Cons:

At 225lbs there are some concerns about Carter’s ability to play the run in the NFL. While he has good strength he can sometimes find himself overpowered by bigger offensive linemen. We mentioned that he is disciplined but he can also be a little slow to diagnose plays and react. He can get away with this on the college level but will be out position in the pros.

Thoughts:

Carter ranks #16 on our 2011 NFL Big Board. He has a ton of physical ability that will allow him to overcome some size concerns. He is going to be the target of a 3-4 defensive team looking for a linebacker that could both rush the quarterback but also drop back into coverage.

2011 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Bruce Carter, UNC NFL Mocks | Covering the 2011 NFL Draft & Your #1 NFL Mock Draft Database


Bruce Carter - 2011 NFL Draft Prospect Bruce Carter

 

[Patriot Missile]

I'd much rather take my chances with a proven pass rusher like Hali, or a huge trenchman like Ngata.

Articles like this put into perspective how hard it is to land an effective pass rusher in the draft. Atleast 1st year ones anyway.

Want to predict which rookies will be busts? Look at pass rushers

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'm sorry. You lost me at 225 lbs.
In a 4-3 system at OLB, he could have a legitimate chance, but in the Pats system, Carter would be a special teamer at best.
Now if he's fast enough to play Free Safety, then I might be interested.

Cons:

At 225lbs there are some concerns about Carter’s ability to play the run in the NFL. While he has good strength he can sometimes find himself overpowered by bigger offensive linemen. We mentioned that he is disciplined but he can also be a little slow to diagnose plays and react. He can get away with this on the college level but will be out position in the pros.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I remember a thread 2 years ago on how drafting Vernon Gholston would be the answer to replacing guys like McGinest.

These kind of failed threads just show you how some players will never work out in the pro ranks.

Here's one archived goodie in this forum of many on Vernon

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...n-gholston-once-kill-two-stones-one-bird.html

 

[PatriotSpy]

good point vcj. i saw vid of that guy and wasn't very impressed at all.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Every year we grapple with finding the elusive prototypical 3/4 OLB for BB's system. One who can play with a hand down and rush the QB, set the edge, and drop into coverage. This type of player takes time to develop in the system. However, we also know that BB is not afraid to have role players on the roster. Case in point is TBC. Due to his skill set, his one job is to rush the QB. TBC did not have a good year in 2010/2011 IMO.

In your opinion, is there a player in this draft who could replace TBC and give us an immediate impact as an outside pass rush specialist? A player who may not develop into a prototypical BB 3/4 OLB, but who can pin his ears back and simply rush the QB? If so, who would you draft and how high of a pick would you be willing to use?

The question is there an edge rusher who is explosive off the edge with more than one move and capable of growing into the run and coverage roles ... who might fall out of the Top 10?

In the NFL Draft Scout Top 64 players there are two-three who might fit that description:

Ryan Kerrigan
Jabaal Sheard
Allen Bailey

All of whom have questions about their ability to play in space.