Developing new OL

[Schmo]

I believe our OL is the group that needs the biggest upgrade. A lot of the blame for our losses in big games in recent years lies on them. I thought we have been in good shape the last few years, but now is the time to improve. Light's long term future is in question, along with Mankins' short term. RG has increasingly become our biggest single problem position on the offense and there IS such a thing as an upgrade over Koppen.

Under certain circumstances, I could see a changeover of up to 3 starting OL positions (I pray Mankins is in good graces with the Pats brass). Now, as I understand it, the difficulty from hardest to easiest is generally LT-RT-LG-C-RG. As we know, Dante is easily one of the best in the business. How realistic do you all think it is to have such a changeover... especially if all 3 are rookies? I would never have thought our defense would have been as young as it was this year. Could the same thing happen to our line?

 

[serifyn]

i understand that everyone is down on the O-line, but keep in mind that this O-line is/was one of the best in the NFL this year with 2 probowlers (who are also FAs).

Brady is comfortable with them and works well with them, they coordinate snaps and the run game very well this year, it is unfortunate that they were tricked when it mattered most, but all of the offense was, brady had a terrible game.

This is a veteran group of offensive lineman who have been working with brady for years, they know how cadence and commit few false starts, if this entire group was revamped in a year, you would see them slow down one of the most effective offenses in the NFL.

 

[Sciz]

There's a difference. A young defense means you give up points. A young OL means Brady gets killed. The first is alright. The second is not.

Personally, I want Light at LT, Mankins at LG, Koppen at C, either Connolly or Kaczur at RG, and Vollmer at RT. Get a mid-round guard project and a late 2nd-early 3rd tackle project for the future and call it good.

 

[Froob]

Get Pouncey with one of the 1st round picks(if he is as good as his brother as people are saying). Any of you gators fans know if he has that nasty mankins attitude?

 

[serifyn]

he played like crap this year from what ive read, hes got a third round grade.

 

[ATippett56]

How realistic do you all think it is to have such a changeover... especially if all 3 are rookies? I would never have thought our defense would have been as young as it was this year. Could the same thing happen to our line?

In 2005, the New England Patriots started for a vast majority of the games with Logan Mankins at left guard and Nick Kaczur at right tackle. Nick Kaczur moved to left tackle after Matt Light went down with a broken leg. So the Patriots have started two rookies before on the offensive line. At worst, I hope the New England Patriots expend the #33 overall draft pick in the 2011 NFL Draft on an offensive guard, for example Mike Pouncey from Florida.

 

[Patspsycho]

Get Pouncey with one of the 1st round picks(if he is as good as his brother as people are saying). Any of you gators fans know if he has that nasty mankins attitude?

He doesn't have the attitude to play in cold weather and has said as much.

 

[RxJock1120]

My personal feeling on this is that Light's days at LT are numbered. I have now seen 3 consecutive playoff games that Light has not handled himself well. He was not terrible, but when it came time to get a push on the DL, he has not been able to do it. While he has been a great Patriot, he is limited by his althletic abilities and to many times gets beaten out by hungry young DL. I really believe that he needs to move him inside to LG(assuming that we actually resign him). We need to move Vollmer to LT and resign Mankins and move him to RG. Which mean we would have to draft a big RT. Maybe Derek Sherrod from Mississippi or an Anthony Castonzo from BC, whome ever is the top rated tackle on the Pats board at #28. In this case I think our OL will get a nice infusion of young hungry talent.

I have seen too many games where the Pats O-line is great during the season, and then folds in the playoffs. Too many times the Pats o-line has been beaten with 4 rushers. Over the years, this has been the only proven formula to beat the Pats. Those who have been able to do it, have generally come out on top. while not being able to block 6 rushers is understandable, not being able to block 4 is inexcusable!!!

 

[part-timer]

Each of the last three playoff losses have three common threads according to an article by Reese on a latest espnboston.com article1) presure on Brady2)Losing offensive rythem3)Plagued by slow starts.Everything comes back to the OL. It is finaly becoming obvious to everone that our geriatric OL has outlived its ability to be effective. Brady has suffered injuries each of the last Four years, effecting his ability to preform because of the OL. We need to make a clean sweep this year to avoid a prolonged ajustment period streched out till the end of Brady's career.1) replace Light, Vollmer to LT. 2)Sign mankins at all cost. 3)Replace Koppen with the best C available ( Wisneiwski or Pouncy) at Pick 33. 4) replace Neil with best available OG at Pick 74 (Ijalana). Sign the best available swing tackle with pick 28 to replace Vollmer at RT, ( Carimi. Castonzo). This still does not cripple us on our defensive needs. Pick 17 is still available to pick the best available DE(?), and pick 60 to grab the best available OLB ( Dontay Moch). Leaving Picks 92,124,156,188 to back up at all ather needs or trade up if nessisary to accomplish picks 1-5.

 

[Froob]

He doesn't have the attitude to play in cold weather and has said as much.

Damn. How is the rest of the o-line talent? Is that a lot of good ones in this draft? Pouncey in last draft was suppose to be the safest 1st round pick and he got voted to the pro bowl. Would be great to get a pass rusher and a good guard in the 1st round.

 

[jmt57]

As for 2011, whether or not the OL is the unit that needs the biggest upgrade is dependent on what happens with Matt Light and Logan Manikins, in my opinion. If they both return then I would say an upgrade at OLB (and DE) in order to produce a more effective pass rush is the first priority.

If they both re-sign then I would say shore up the pass rush first, interior line second. But if either or both are not re-signed, the OL is the first priority.

If Light moves on, that leaves Vollmer and Kaczur as your starting tackles, with Mankins, Koppen and Connolly inside.

If Mankins moves on, then you have Kaczur and Connolly inside next to Koppen, with Light and Vollmer still at tackle.

If both leave, you're looking at a line of Vollmer, Connolly, Koppen, Wendell and Kaczur. Obviously that scenario would require drastic measures.

I left Neal out of the discussion because I don't think he'll be back; he was very close to retiring last off season. Besides, considering his age and the number of injuries he has suffered the last few years, I don't believe you can count on him for 2011.

Last year I was expecting the Pats to take an OLB with their first pick, and an interior lineman in the 3rd or 4th round. They drafted Ted Larsen a little bit later, who I envisioned as a replacement for Koppen next year, but he had a rough training camp. Time to try again with an earlier pick.


Bottom line is that for the short term (i.e., 2011), it all depends on how those two negotiations go. Yes the OL needs an upgrade, but it's debatable whether or not it is more of a priority than upgrading the pass rush.

 

[ATippett56]

Those who have been able to do it, have generally come out on top. while not being able to block 6 rushers is understandable, not being able to block 4 is inexcusable!!!

Plenty of offensive tackles in the 2011 NFL Draft.

NFL Draft Scout----Powered By: The Sports Xchange

Bon Appetit!

 

[ATippett56]

Bottom line is that for the short term (i.e., 2011), it all depends on how those two negotiations go. Yes the OL needs an upgrade, but it's debatable whether or not it is more of a priority than upgrading the pass rush.

At worst, the third highest priority for the 2011 New England Patriots is to draft an offensive guard to replace Stephen Neal/Dan Connolly at the right offensive guard position.

NFL Draft Scout----Powered By: The Sports Xchange

 

[serifyn]

while not being able to block 6 rushers is understandable, not being able to block 4 is inexcusable!!!

not necessarily. from what i understand, the jets brought alot of 3 or 4 man rushes all game long, they dropped back alot of DBs and clogged up the middle, sometimes the jets would bring more pressure on one side and others they wouldent bring any pressure at all from another side, knowing brady wasent a big run threat they knew they could do this.

The patriots are a passing team at heart, and when things get tough they always go back to the pass, the jets knew this and they were right, they played coverage all night and Brady couldn't find anyone open.

It would be easy to blame the O-line for having brady be sacked 5 times, but it is as much his fault as it is the receivers for not being open to throw to or the playcalling which refused to run the ball.

 

[ATippett56]

Could the same thing happen to our line?

I could see two rookies at left tackle and right guard but not three. In my opinion, the New England Patriots first priority in free agency is to sign Logan Mankins to a long term deal. Based on your scenario, the Patriots 2010 NFL Draft could play out as follows:

1st Round
#17 OLB - Ryan Kerrigan from Purdue, Justin Houston from Georgia
#28 OT - Left Offensive Tackle

2nd Round
#33 OG - Right Offensive Guard
#60 DT

3rd Round
#74 FS or DT or RB or OLB
#92 OC - Center

 

[Kontradiction]

Get Pouncey with one of the 1st round picks(if he is as good as his brother as people are saying). Any of you gators fans know if he has that nasty mankins attitude?

Yeah, he's a mauler.

 

[Kontradiction]

He doesn't have the attitude to play in cold weather and has said as much.

Can you link me to where you saw this? Not saying you're lying, but I haven't seen this yet.

 

[satz]

The biggest issue with this year and even last year was the right side of the line

1) Vollmer had a great start and post concussion he struggled last year. This year his shin has been bothering him

2)RG- Just horrible every team gets there best to go against Dan connelly. But the combination of Vollmer and Dan was the issue as you can help 1 but not both

Gaurds vs tackles - tackles play in space and hence more atheletic and leaner . Gaurds are more stockier as they are fighting inside a telephone box. tackles go against smaller faster players and gaurds against huge DT. so please light can play gaurd but is it what you want to do ? .Different skill set.


So we need 1 Gaurd starting gaurd and a Solid C/G prospect.

The 3 games we lost

2007 SB - A super charged DL who played with emotion,passion and killer instint - We played with just do our job and do not get emotional attitude

2009 Ravens - A super charged front seven which was pissed off as they got no respect who played with emotion,passion and killer instint - We played with just do our job and do not get emotional attitude

2010 Jets - The whole defense came to fight and where mean and vicious from go. We ofcourse do your job and do not get emotional attitude.

I see a pattern.we need a change of attitude. When mankins came the OL improved what we need is 3-4 mankins not 1 guy.

 

[part-timer]

There's a difference. A young defense means you give up points. A young OL means Brady gets killed. The first is alright. The second is not.

Personally, I want Light at LT, Mankins at LG, Koppen at C, either Connolly or Kaczur at RG, and Vollmer at RT. Get a mid-round guard project and a late 2nd-early 3rd tackle project for the future and call it good.

If you haven't noticed Brady has been been geting killed the last thee years,Knee, ankle, sholder, ribs, foot, fingers, not to mention the ones BB did not report and the press did not find out about .

 

[RobertWeathers]

If you haven't noticed Brady has been been geting killed the last thee years,Knee, ankle, sholder, ribs, foot, fingers, not to mention the ones BB did not report and the press did not find out about .

Agreed.

As of right now, the only players I am comfortable with on the line next year are Light, Mankins and Vollmer.

Koppen and RG du jour should be pushed hard.