2011 Compensatory Draft Picks

[Urgent]

Each year around the time we start to think about draft prospects we start trying to project compensatory draft picks. I would guess a fourth to the Patriots, based on the following.

This year these is much less activity for the Patriots.

Total list of players added:
Taylor Price
Rob Gronkowski
Aaron Hernandez
Alge Crumpler
Steve Maneri
Quinn Ojinaka
Kyle Love
Brandon Deaderick
Tracy White
Jermaine Cunningham
Brandon Spikes
Dane Fletcher
Devin McCourty
Jarrad Page
Zoltan Mesko

Steve Maneri was claimed off waivers.
Quinn Ojinnaka was acquired for a draft pick (Falcons)
Tracy White was acquired for a draft pick (Eagles)
Jarrad Page was acquired for a draft pick (Chefs)
All in italics were rookies.
Alge Crumpler was an Unrestricted Free Agent - two years, $4.8mm, $2.4mm avg

The Pats lost the following Unrestricted Free Agents:
Jarvis Green - four years, $20mm, avg $5mm/year
Ben Watson - three years, $12mm, avg $4mm/year

So assume Ben Watson cancels Crumpler - although there might be 'net free agent loss' compensation at the tail end of the seventh.

That means the Pats would only be compensated for the loss of UFA Jarvis Green.

In 2010, Adamjt13 projected that $6mm contracts were third rounders, and the highest fifth round projection was $4.8mm. He projected no fourth rounders. That would project Green as a fourth, or possibly a fifth if there was 'inflation' - which there didn't seem to be, given the limited free agency due to CBA restrictions.

Thus, based on this reasoning, the Pats would receive a late fourth for Jarvis Green. It could possibly be the first fifth compensatory pick offered. There could possibly be a 'net loss' awarded at the end of the seventh. This is more likely in a year with lower free agent movement like 2010.

I might have missed things - take a look.

 

[Urgent]

Related to this are some of the picks involved in trades.
Page was 'undisclosed.'
White was 'undisclosed.'
Ojinnaka was conditional, I believe.

Moss included a seventh back to Minnesota.
I think Maroney included a sixth going back to Denver.

I hope the Patriots don't lose fifth's and six's for Page, White, or Ojinnaka.

There should be a sixth coming from the 2009 David Thomas transaction.

While we know the outcome of the first three rounds, with the extra picks from Oakland, Carolina, and Minnesota, the fourth-seventh are more murky.

 

[MaineMan]

By the time this actually gets posted, it will be redundant..........

ANyway, Green was cut by DEN - the team that originally signed him as a FA, so we get nothing for him, AFAIK.

We could, however, get a comp pick equivalent to the difference between Watson's contract and Crumpler's which might be a 6th or a 7th?

 

[mgteich]

adamj will tell us the real scoop. Doesn't Gerard Warren count?

What about additions after season started like Woodhead and Moore?

 

[MaineMan]

adamj will tell us the real scoop. Doesn't Gerard Warren count?

What about additions after season started like Woodhead and Moore?

I think Warren was actually cut by the Raiders. Woodhead was definitely cut by the Jets. Moore came out of the UFL, so NFL FA rules probably don't apply.

 

[MaineMan]

According to my tracking sheet .......
- Tracy White was acquired for a 2012 7th rounder. If so, then not part of this year's equation.
- The "conditional" part of the Ojinnaka trade probably voided all compensation for him when he was cut on 9/30/10 (even though he was later re-signed). I have it as originally being a 2011 7th.
- Page was an RFA with KC and the Pats picked him up after he signed his tender, so, no telling on that one, though the most persistent rumor at the time was a 2011 5th.
- We got a 2011 7th for Thomas which was immediately traded to the NYG for TE Michael Matthews. However, that was apparently voided when Matthews was cut (after about 10 minutes).

 

[ctpatsfan77]

According to my tracking sheet .......
- Tracy White was acquired for a 2012 7th rounder. If so, then not part of this year's equation.
- The "conditional" part of the Ojinnaka trade probably voided all compensation for him when he was cut on 9/30/10 (even though he was later re-signed). I have it as originally being a 2011 7th.
- Page was an RFA with KC and the Pats picked him up after he signed his tender, so, no telling on that one, though the most persistent rumor at the time was a 2011 5th.
- We got a 2011 7th for Thomas which was immediately traded to the NYG for TE Michael Matthews. However, that was apparently voided when Matthews was cut (after about 10 minutes).

We could, however, get a comp pick equivalent to the difference between Watson's contract and Crumpler's which might be a 6th or a 7th?

AdamJT13 has found that the only compensation that ever results from "loss of talent" without "loss of numbers" is a comp 7 after all other 7th round comp pick. Sometimes, depending on numbers, there's no compensation at all.

And to reiterate what's been said before: (1) players who are signed after the season begins (Woodhead) never change the results; (2) players who are waived by their teams (G.Warren) do not count for the team that waived them or against the team that signs them; (3) players acquired via trades (Page) never count for the team that traded them or against the team trading for them, conditional or not.

 

[MaineMan]

AdamJT13 has found that the only compensation that ever results from "loss of talent" without "loss of numbers" is a comp 7 after all other 7th round comp pick. Sometimes, depending on numbers, there's no compensation at all.

And to reiterate what's been said before: (1) players who are signed after the season begins (Woodhead) never change the results; (2) players who are waived by their teams (G.Warren) do not count for the team that waived them or against the team that signs them; (3) players acquired via trades (Page) never count for the team that traded them or against the team trading for them, conditional or not.

IOW - the Crumpler v Watson thing could result in a pick close to Mr. Irrelevant or even nothing at all.

The rest of that post was simply conveying the info I had on those trades. Didn't mean to imply that I thought there was any effect on compensatories.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

IOW - the Crumpler v Watson thing could result in a pick close to Mr. Irrelevant or even nothing at all.

The rest of that post was simply conveying the info I had on those trades. Didn't mean to imply that I thought there was any effect on compensatories.

Fair enough, I was just reiterating stuff that's been mentioned in previous threads, with explanations, in the hopes that we don't have to do it every three days.

 

[Aßßynormal]

What about the fact that Crumpler was a long term veteran ....... do they require any compensation at all? IOW, does it matter to the formula that we signed him?

 

[MaineMan]

Fair enough, I was just reiterating stuff that's been mentioned in previous threads, with explanations, in the hopes that we don't have to do it every three days.

Oh, yeah. I hear you there! At least we now have a thread entitled "Compensatory Picks" for people to refer to. We'll just have to bump it occasionally so that someone else doesn't start yet another one, eh?

 

[jmt57]

Related to this are some of the picks involved in trades.
Page was 'undisclosed.'
White was 'undisclosed.'
Ojinnaka was conditional, I believe.

Moss included a seventh back to Minnesota.
I think Maroney included a sixth going back to Denver.

I hope the Patriots don't lose fifth's and six's for Page, White, or Ojinnaka.

There should be a sixth coming from the 2009 David Thomas transaction.

While we know the outcome of the first three rounds, with the extra picks from Oakland, Carolina, and Minnesota, the fourth-seventh are more murky.

Players who were traded do not count in the formula for compensatory picks at all. If you think of the term 'compensatory', consider it 'compensation' for losing players in free agency. That's also why players that were cut do not count, and players signed after July 1 do not count. There's no reason to compensate a team for cutting a player, for trading a player, or for losing a player they showed no interest in re-signing.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Players who were traded do not count in the formula for compensatory picks at all. If you think of the term 'compensatory', consider it 'compensation' for losing players in free agency. That's also why players that were cut do not count, and players signed after July 1 do not count. There's no reason to compensate a team for cutting a player, for trading a player, or for losing a player they showed no interest in re-signing.

The formula DOES reward teams in the last case: the Pats got a comp pick for Donté Stallworth when they declined to pick up his option.

 

[Urgent]

Players who were traded do not count in the formula for compensatory picks at all. If you think of the term 'compensatory', consider it 'compensation' for losing players in free agency. That's also why players that were cut do not count, and players signed after July 1 do not count. There's no reason to compensate a team for cutting a player, for trading a player, or for losing a player they showed no interest in re-signing.

Exactly. Not sure what the confusion was.
The first post seemed to label the traded players as not requiring compensation -- see the first post projecting compensatory picks.

Perhaps the uncertainty as to the actual trade values for White, Page, Ojinnaka, who were initially reported as 'undisclosed.' Since the Patriots traded their seventh, and we are unsure of the undisclosed trade value, they might have traded fifth or sixth round picks for those players. Since that question, some folks have posted more recent information on the picks traded for those players.

 

[Don Kipines]

If I'm not mistaken there's no compensation for Ojinnaka because he was cut and re-signed.

 

[MaineMan]

If I'm not mistaken there's no compensation for Ojinnaka because he was cut and re-signed.

If you're saying that we'd get back the 2011 7th rounder we traded to ATL for him, that would depend on whether or not the deal was a "conditional" and I don't think it was.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

It is much more likely that Crumpler signing will cancel out the Jarvius Green signing, which would leave the Watson contract. Watson signed a pretty big contract for a TE and he had a pretty productive year. I would be shocked if the Pats don't AT LEAST get a 6th round pick, a 5th round pick is more likely. I doubt it would go as high as a 4th round pick.

 

[MaineMan]

It is much more likely that Crumpler signing will cancel out the Jarvius Green signing, which would leave the Watson contract. Watson signed a pretty big contract for a TE and he had a pretty productive year. I would be shocked if the Pats don't AT LEAST get a 6th round pick, a 5th round pick is more likely. I doubt it would go as high as a 4th round pick.

IIRC, because Green ended up getting cut, he no longer figures into the calculations. AFAIK, it's just Crumpler v. Watson and the contract difference between those two might end up as a 6th, a 7th, or nothing at all.

 

[Urgent]

IIRC, because Green ended up getting cut, he no longer figures into the calculations. AFAIK, it's just Crumpler v. Watson and the contract difference between those two might end up as a 6th, a 7th, or nothing at all.

Excellent point.

Jarvis Green was cut by Josh McDaniels in Denver after signing a big contract. He was later picked up by Houston but didn't play in 2010. As such it is doubtful he will count.

As Emily Litella said...

 

[bucky]

Green was cut by DEN - the team that originally signed him as a FA, so we get nothing for him, AFAIK.

I know performance of the FAs counts towards the determination, but would it matter that much ? I would think we still get something, maybe a 6th?

Also, since performance is a consideration, wouldn't the difference between Crumpler and Watson be more significant? Watson - 68 rec, 763 yds. Crumpler - 6 for 52.