Improve The defense

[mgteich]

In the end, having the best quarterback in the nfl and the best offense is not enough. We have lost our last 3 playoff games, and are 50% since winning our last Super Bowl.

We just can't win without a top defense, so we need to do more to make it happen.

 

[Sciz]

Kinda hard when injuries take out a starting CB, two starting DEs and two subpackage DEs.

I want a first round DE and OLB, but I think a lot of improvement from this season to next will be because of less crappy injury luck.

 

[ddanny1992]

Yup, and it all starts with the draft.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Yup, and it all starts with the draft.

No, it actually starts with getting back all the DLs lost to injury.

Yes, there are lots of question marks, but the Pats are going into the offseason with this year's week 1 DL roster, not today's.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

In the end, having the best quarterback in the nfl and the best offense is not enough. We have lost our last 3 playoff games, and are 50% since winning our last Super Bowl.

We just can't win without a top defense, so we need to do more to make it happen.

Odd, I was under the impression the defense kept the game close despite the offense & KR team, and the PR team on that fake punt fiasco, leaving them short fields to defend.

 

[letekro]

In the end, having the best quarterback in the nfl and the best offense is not enough. We have lost our last 3 playoff games, and are 50% since winning our last Super Bowl.

We just can't win without a top defense, so we need to do more to make it happen.

NO doubt we need to beef up the front 7, but if you're suggesting that the defense has been the problem in our recent playoff losses, you're wrong. Yes, we have a great regular season offense, but good defenses have shown the ability in the playoffs to bear down and stop the short stuff that is our bread and butter. Even going back to 2006, the offense really struggled at SD and did nothing in the second half against the Colts when the game was on the line. In the playoffs, the windows are tighter, and without a good running game to open things up, Brady really has to be perfect. He's been far from perfect lately.

 

[MaineMan]

Odd, I was under the impression the defense kept the game close despite the offense & KR team, and the PR team on that fake punt fiasco, leaving them short fields to defend.

I'd agree that a young, patchwork defense did a halfway decent job against a not-so-great offense that played over its had last night. And the defense will be better just from getting guys back off IR. But there needs to be more there. It needs to be more solid and deep across the board so that it can afford to become more aggressive - IOW, make big plays without giving up big plays.

The offense needs some help - deep threat, improved ground game - but it seems to me that a great offense just isn't going to get it done anymore by itself.

 

[aurakilla]

any chance to get chad greenway?

it certainly would make the draft less stressful on defense

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

I know we just resigned Bodden last season to a multi year deal, but would there be any reasonable way (cap wise) that we could trade him, and clear up some room to sign Asomugha? I know Nnamdi would be much more expensive, but the upgrade he would provide could be well worth it. McCourty, and NA would be a pretty lockdown tandem at CB.

 

[aurakilla]

I know we just resigned Bodden last season to a multi year deal, but would there be any reasonable way (cap wise) that we could trade him, and clear up some room to sign Asomugha? I know Nnamdi would be much more expensive, but the upgrade he would provide could be well worth it. McCourty, and NA would be a pretty lockdown tandem at CB.

apparently he wants to go to the jets or packers

2011 NFL Free Agents: DB

maybe bb could work some magic, hell I would be happy with champ bailey

 

[MaineMan]

I know we just resigned Bodden last season to a multi year deal, but would there be any reasonable way (cap wise) that we could trade him, and clear up some room to sign Asomugha? I know Nnamdi would be much more expensive, but the upgrade he would provide could be well worth it. McCourty, and NA would be a pretty lockdown tandem at CB.

Here's another way to look at it. Rating our CBs on a 1-10 scale, let's say McCourty is a 9, Bodden is a 7/8, Arrington might be a 5/6, Butler & Wilhite (maybe) in the 2-3 range. So, your Asomugha proposal spends a lot of money to upgrade the top end by 1-2 points.

I'd much rather draft/acquire a 3rd guy in the 6-8 range and a 4th guy in the 4-6 range to replace Butler and Wilhite. That way, you've raised the overall quality of the CB corps by a minimum of 4 points for the same (or, probably, far less) money. More importantly, you've considerably improved the depth/resilience.

 

[aurakilla]

Here's another way to look at it. Rating our CBs on a 1-10 scale, let's say McCourty is a 9, Bodden is a 7/8, Arrington might be a 5/6, Butler & Wilhite (maybe) in the 2-3 range. So, your Asomugha proposal spends a lot of money to upgrade the top end by 1-2 points.

I'd much rather draft/acquire a 3rd guy in the 6-8 range and a 4th guy in the 4-6 range to replace Butler and Wilhite. That way, you've raised the overall quality of the CB corps by a minimum of 4 points for the same (or, probably, far less) money. More importantly, you've considerably improved the depth/resilience.

yes but by getting NA, they would have one 9, and a 10. in turn getting rid of Bodden to free up some cap room. Arrington could stay so a 10,9, and a 5/6 + if they were to trade bodden the obtained pick or player could be an upgrade over butler/Wilhite.

oh well thats the fun of what ifs........to bad itd never happen

 

[Peachhead]

Here's another way to look at it. Rating our CBs on a 1-10 scale, let's say McCourty is a 9, Bodden is a 7/8, Arrington might be a 5/6, Butler & Wilhite (maybe) in the 2-3 range. So, your Asomugha proposal spends a lot of money to upgrade the top end by 1-2 points.

I'd much rather draft/acquire a 3rd guy in the 6-8 range and a 4th guy in the 4-6 range to replace Butler and Wilhite. That way, you've raised the overall quality of the CB corps by a minimum of 4 points for the same (or, probably, far less) money. More importantly, you've considerably improved the depth/resilience.

Plus, a wicked passrush will make 7-9 rated guys into world beaters. Hell, It would probably make Arrington, Wilhite and Butler look damn good.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Truth be told, I guess it doesn't matter how many top flight DB's we have, if we can't get to the QB, or at least put pressure on him.

 

[DaBruinz]

In the end, having the best quarterback in the nfl and the best offense is not enough. We have lost our last 3 playoff games, and are 50% since winning our last Super Bowl.

We just can't win without a top defense, so we need to do more to make it happen.

The success of the offense is misleading. Koppen and Connolly were horrible yesterday. Koppen blew several protection calls and we beaten soundly by Sedrick Ellis on a couple of occasions. Koppen should be able to handle Ellis or any 4-3 DT, honestly. It's the 3-4 NTs that most Centers have trouble with. And I can understand that.

The defense will improve just by the nature of the young kids getting better. We still need someone for the RDE position. And we still need an OLB who can sub in for Ninkovich or Cunningham.. And another safety to replace Meriweather would be nice, but it's not a must have.

 

[MaineMan]

Plus, a wicked passrush will make 7-9 rated guys into world beaters. Hell, It would probably make Arrington, Wilhite and Butler look damn good.

To me, Arrington isn't so much a CB as he is a relatively quick safety playing CB - he generally plays the run well and tackles very well, at least limiting YAC. He may or may not have the potential to become a better CB, but he really can't cover well enough without safety help over the top right now.

Neither Butler nor Wilhite appear to be able to cover the edges well enough even WITH safety help and Butler doesn't tackle well enough to cover a slot guy in the short/intermediate area.

The point being that even a great pass rush won't actually make these guys better, it will only help cover their flaws when it's working. When the rush fails, their flaws are still there to be exploited. We need better corners for those times.

 

[Fencer]

Odd, I was under the impression the defense kept the game close despite the offense & KR team, and the PR team on that fake punt fiasco, leaving them short fields to defend.

You're right that the offense played worse than or about even with the defense Sunday despite having a far better season overall. But if mgteich is arguing that "Good enough to win if the offense is humming" isn't a high enough bar to set for the defense, he's right.

 

[MaineMan]

The success of the offense is misleading. Koppen and Connolly were horrible yesterday. Koppen blew several protection calls and we beaten soundly by Sedrick Ellis on a couple of occasions. Koppen should be able to handle Ellis or any 4-3 DT, honestly. It's the 3-4 NTs that most Centers have trouble with. And I can understand that.

The defense will improve just by the nature of the young kids getting better. We still need someone for the RDE position. And we still need an OLB who can sub in for Ninkovich or Cunningham.. And another safety to replace Meriweather would be nice, but it's not a must have.

I'm wondering how many of the bad protection calls were at least partly on Brady. On the sack by Jets DB #30 (Lowery?), Brady had Woodhead in the backfield to his left - #30 was obviously cheating up toward that side and yet Brady sent Woodhead (his only protection) in motion to his right and ended up not even having enough time to complete his drop while never looking to his left at all. I was in WTF-mode even before the snap on that play.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Don't forget free-agency. We usually don't make a big splash there. But, hey you never know. Lamar Woodley is a UFA. I'm sure Pittsburgh would want to keep him. They gave a lot of money to J. Harrison. And, they need to get L. Timmons under a long-term contract. We know Belichick doesn't like to draft olb's. We signed R.Colvin and A.Thomas in the past. Why not?? Hurts a rival. Helps you. Get that 3-4 de at 17. Maybe Cam Heyward or Cam Jordan. Use 28 on the ol. Maybe Pouncey kid from Florida. Can play RG. If he improves his shotgun snap might be an eventual replacement for Koppen. There aren't any great safeties, but I don't see us giving B. Meriweather a long term contract. So, draft his replacement at 33. Won't start until next year. Can help out on special teams until then.

 

[mgteich]

Unfortunately, that is exactly what I mean.

The defense played very well indeed. They have exceeded all expectation throughout the season as well as yesterday. The defense is the youngest in the nfl and will continue to improve. Belichick did a truly amazing job with this patchwork of youngsters, three bowl level vets, some guys of the street and few OK vets. Belichick deserves to be DC of the year.

Going into the game, we were not heavily favored because our defense could play like a top 15 defense (which they did). We were favored because we had the best offense in the nfl. Unfortunatley, we need to build a top 5 defense. For the patriots, the top offense plus an average defense is just not enough to get the job done. The defense must be able to win games. The offense CANNOT be routinely counted on, and apparently not in a clutch situations.

How serious is the situation. Well, we were reduced to fake punts and onside kicks to try to make up for the ineptness of the offense. Brady had forever to pass. If anyone were told Saturday how much time Brady would have, the would have taken the over and bet on the patriots.

The long drive by the patriots at the end of the game (that handed the game to the jets) was truly pathetic. There is no way that it made sense that Brady shouldn't be taking some chances in that situation. This was the time to put the team on his back and FINISH. Instead of trying to take what we needed, we accepted what was given. Perhaps someday we will find out what happened. There are a dozen other teams who would have put more faith in their quarterback than we did. Maybe Brady was injured. Maybe he was afraid to be hit again and again. Maybe we really need a better OC. How can a 14-2 team with the best offense in league lack confidence?

Drafting and securing players to be able to play against the jets' scheme is simply not enough, The jets (or someone else) will simply have another scheme next time.

You're right that the offense played worse than or about even with the defense Sunday despite having a far better season overall. But if mgteich is arguing that "Good enough to win if the offense is humming" isn't a high enough bar to set for the defense, he's right.