Interesting claim: The Jets are more talented than the Patriots by a wide margin

[Deus Irae]

I just saw this post on a Jets board (it's the topic of another thread here) and thought it might spark some interest.

Not "no talent" but if you look at our roster and you look at NEs roster we are more talented by a wide margin. They just have a wide gap at the most important position. switch the QBs and the Jets would have gone undefeated. I don't think people realize how great Brady is.

Discuss.

 

[billdog3484]

laughable, but what do you expect.

There's no right answer. we will find out sunday. i will keep my mouth shut till then

 

[CrazyDave]

A case of believing their own hype perhaps?

 

[patsinthesnow]

Part of that is true. Give Brady Holmes, Edwards, Crotchery, Keller, and that defense they probably are unstoppable.

Luckily, Sanchez is one of the worst qbs in the league and Brady is the best.

 

[DanishPatFan]

I just saw this post on a Jets board (it's the topic of another thread here) and thought it might spark some interest.



Discuss.

I will say it like this, i would not swap teams. This young core of players we have, makes me so exited for the years to come! I Actually like this team better than the 07 team, but i dont know why

 

[RobertWeathers]

I hate the argument of which team has more talent. I think the Jets are talented. I think the Patriots are talented. Each team is capable of beating the other.

If the Patriots win on Sunday, I don't think that necessarily means that they are more talented. It does mean that they played better on that day and are perhaps a better team overall.

I use the same logic as 2007 Pats/Giants. Giants played better that day. That doesn't mean that they have more talent or are the better overall team.

 

[dhamz]

If by more talented they mean the Jets have more guys with reputations based less on production and more on name recognition (Scott, Cromartie, and Pace come to mind) or more once great now mediocre guys (Tomlinson, Taylor) then they certainly do.

If they are talking about the talent to make plays on the field in January 2011 I could not disagree more.

 

[363839]

Part of that is true. Give Brady Holmes, Edwards, Crotchery, Keller, and that defense they probably are unstoppable.

Luckily, Sanchez is one of the worst qbs in the league and Brady is the best.

I'll take Welker, Branch, Gronks and Aaron over anyone of those guys.
They don't (usually) drop easy passes and they are good team leaders.

 

[PYPER]

I will say it like this, i would not swap teams. This young core of players we have, makes me so exited for the years to come! I Actually like this team better than the 07 team, but i dont know why

I think that's b/c of our style. We're much more balanced this year. In '07, McDaniels fell in love w/the passing game (hard to blame him) and we must have run 80-90% of our offense out of shutgun. This year we not only run the ball but we also utilize play action and spread the ball around much more. On top of that there is the issue of expectations. There was considerable talk about that team going undefeated even before the season began whereas nobody really knew what to expect out of this team. Many mediots even predicted a 3rd place finish. Opposing fans taunted us with the idea that the empire was crumbling.

I look at it like this. The '07 team proved everybody right while this team has proven everybody wrong. It's always more fun to prove everybody wrong.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Talent is used for acting, so let's draw up a good analogy.

Sanchez vs. Brady is like Stephen Spielberg versus me. You could give Stephen Spielberg a bunch of soap opera actors, crappy editors and cameramen, a pretty bad script, and throw in some third-rate music. You could then give me Russell Crowe, Edward Norton, a great script, all the best producers, a John Williams score, and basically everything else.

Spielberg makes a much better movie than I do.

Same is true about Brady and Sanchez. If you don't have the right director, all of your talent doesn't really amount to much.

 

[blackglass3]

What's REALLY funny is Saturday afternoon I looked at Gang Green for a bit. The thread I focused on was called "Not feeling it" or something to that extent. And it was basically almost all the posters on that site saying they thought they had no chance in hell, how they were ready to go into the offseason and make the changes to get better next year, ect ect.

Then Sunday I went back and it was all about how there is no way the Jets lose in New England.

 

[upstater1]

You look at the Jets WRs, RBs and some of their defneders, like Revis and Harris, and you say, yes, they are very talented. Who wouldn't want Santonio and Cotchery.

Then you say, would you swap Santonio, Cotchery, Edwards and Keller for Welker, Branch, Gronk, Hernandez and Tate. I say no.

Would you swap LaDainian and Greene for Woodhead and Green-Ellis. heck no.

Would you swap the Jets OL for the Patriots OL. No.

Would you swap Wilfork for Shaun Ellis? No.

Would you swap Mayo, Spikes and Cunningham for Harris, Pace and Scott? To tell the truth, I haven't watched Scott enough to know how he's been performing for the Jets, and I can easily see how 31 out of 32 fanbases would say yes, but I'm just going to say no.

Would you swap McCourty and Arrington for Revis and Cromartie? The latter is better, so chalk one up for the Jets.

Safeties? Patriots.

Only at LB and CB do I see a Jets advantage.

 

[BSR]

I just saw this post on a Jets board (it's the topic of another thread here) and thought it might spark some interest.



Discuss.

The surgeon general warns that frequent exposure to a Jets message board can lead to brain damage...seriously.


Personally, I think both teams have talent but much of that wasn't evident until the end of the season. I think nobody would have claimed at the beginning of the season that we had a better TE situation, but at this point our TE absolutely dominate over theirs. I'd take Gronk or Hernandez over Keller. Same probably is true of some of some of the other rookies/pick ups. BJGE, Branch, Woodhead, Arrington, Cunningham, Spikes make this team much more talented then we had previously given them credit. Its not unusual that those on the outside haven't realized this yet.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ok, so we can give the QB matchup to Brady without question, and there's no question as to the head coach. So, let's move on from there. Both teams run a 3-4, so the matchups should be even. Let's break it down.

Offense:

QB - Brady
RB1
RB2
LT - Even
LG - Mankins
C - Mangold
RG - Moore
RT - Vollmer
TE1
TE2
WR1
WR2
WR3

Defense:

LDE
NT
RDE
LOLB
LILB
RILB
ROLB
CB1
CB2
S1
S2
$.05B
$.10B

Special Teams:

P
K
Units


Anyone have other "no brainers"? For the sake of the cornerbacks discussion, because it's an overall talent question, let's use the 1 and 2 designations only as best and second best overall, not to match up Revis/McCourty and Cromartie/Arrington. I would keep the nickel and dime spots as is, though.

I'll start by suggesting Mangold as the clear winner over Koppen, and Wilfork as the clear winner over Pouha.


Edit: Also, if anyone thinks I should add any more slots for comparison, or consider any group besides the CBs to be interchangeable in slotting, let me know.

 

[luvbrain]

They may be more talented (higher round talents) compared to Pats but Pats have more real "football players".

 

[Real American Hero]

They have a lot of fancy names and hype, I guess that equates to some perceived "talent" advantage, but as proven time and time again its not how much talent you have but what you do with what you've got. And that is where the Pats are miles ahead.

 

[Fencer]

The Pats were 2 games better in the standings with Brady vs. Sanchez and BB vs. Ryan. Standings were close last year as well, especially if you count the postseason. It's reasonable to conjecture that those two advantages equaled more than 2 games.

That said, it's tough to see where the Jets have an advantage other than CB and RB (or C if you split it out from interior OL).

And the Pats have 8 Pro Bowl selections vs. 3 for the Jets, 7-3 if you exclude Brady, 6-3 if you exclude Meriweather as well.

 

[ATippett56]

NT Chris Jenkins, 31 years old
NT Sione Pouha, 31 years old
DE Shaun Ellis, 33 years old
DE Trevor Price, 35 years old
DE Mike DeVito, 26 years old
OLB Calvin Pace, 30 years old
OLB Jason Taylor, 36 years old
OLB Bryan Thomas, 31 years old
OLB Vernon Gholston, 24 years old (1st Round Bust)
ILB Bart Scott, 30 years old
ILB David Harris, 26 years old

So outside of Mike DeVito and David Harris, where is the talent on the NY Jets defensive front seven below the age of 30? Looks like some of the defensive players on the NY Jets roster are well past their prime.

 

[aluminum seats]

The Pats were 2 games better in the standings with Brady vs. Sanchez and BB vs. Ryan. Standings were close last year as well, especially if you count the postseason. It's reasonable to conjecture that those two advantages equaled more than 2 games.

That said, it's tough to see where the Jets have an advantage other than CB and RB (or C if you split it out from interior OL).

And the Pats have 8 Pro Bowl selections vs. 3 for the Jets, 7-3 if you exclude Brady, 6-3 if you exclude Meriweather as well.

Pats were 3 better, just sayin'.

I think upstater's take on it was more or less correct. Disagree about Jets' advantage at RB.

 

[godef]

I hate the argument of which team has more talent. I think the Jets are talented. I think the Patriots are talented. Each team is capable of beating the other.

If the Patriots win on Sunday, I don't think that necessarily means that they are more talented. It does mean that they played better on that day and are perhaps a better team overall.

I use the same logic as 2007 Pats/Giants. Giants played better that day. That doesn't mean that they have more talent or are the better overall team.

This is the NFL.

The 1980 Patriots were talented.