Weis leaving KC for U of Florida

[stcjones]

OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

To become OC for the U of Florida????.....sorry if this was posted somewhere...didn't see it. Anyways, this is what Joke-SPN is reporting......Why would Weis make thus move?????

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

You didn't see a thread about it because as interesting and loosly connected to us as it is a mod moved it to the NFL Forum already.

As for the reason, clash with the former OC turned HC seems to be the underlying issue. Charlie wants autonomy over the offense and Haley the hothead apparently can't keep his distance and while learning to be a HC. Haley is one of those run before you walk guys, while Charlie knows that is a path strewn with potentially costly pitfalls. I was reading over on Chief's Planet that apparently Cassel actually got yanked from a recent game for a series. Was seen jawing with Haley on the sidelines. Haley's explanation later was that they had some strategic planning to straighten out. Can't imagine it was the OC up in the booth who yanked the QB. He doesn't generally have that kind of leeway on any team. Also seemed Haley was often seen jawing with someone on the headset. That's a HC stepping in... Seemed to have some conflict earlier in the season with Haley as is his habit trying to push the envelope and go for it in questionable circumstances that nearly cost them some games. He's impatient, which is the kiss of death in this system on either side of the ball. It's all about not making costly mistakes and keeping yourself in the game this early in the building process... Or at least that was the way it unfolded (into success) here...

As for Florida, that may just be a case of first in and they or someone in Charlie's circle leaked the interest and Pioli's granting of permission to talk (which he would do as would Bill who learned one thing from Tuna that was never stand in someone's way if they are unhappy or unfulfilled in your situation). Charlie shouldn't have to go to college to get autonomy as an OC given all the demand that the plethora of HC partings will lead to this season. You would think recruiting would be an issue for him as he apparently needs knee surgery as soon as the season is over, but perhaps Florida's new HC wants him bad enough that he was willing to overlook that. And it could be Charlie doesn't want to wait and see if a pro HC/GM is willing to make similar health concessions or if the coordinator market will lag because of the uncertain CBA and a potential work stoppage.

 

[PatsDeb]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

You didn't see a thread about it because as interesting and loosly connected to us as it is a mod moved it to the NFL Forum already.

As for the reason, clash with the former OC turned HC seems to be the underlying issue. Charlie wants autonomy over the offense and Haley the hothead apparently can't keep his distance and while learning to be a HC. Haley is one of those run before you walk guys, while Charlie knows that is a path strewn with potentially costly pitfalls. I was reading over on Chief's Planet that apparently Cassel actually got yanked from a recent game for a series. Was seen jawing with Haley on the sidelines. Haley's explanation later was that they had some strategic planning to straighten out. Can't imagine it was the OC up in the booth who yanked the QB. He doesn't generally have that kind of leeway on any team. Also seemed Haley was often seen jawing with someone on the headset. That's a HC stepping in... Seemed to have some conflict earlier in the season with Haley as is his habit trying to push the envelope and go for it in questionable circumstances that nearly cost them some games. He's impatient, which is the kiss of death in this system on either side of the ball. It's all about not making costly mistakes and keeping yourself in the game this early in the building process... Or at least that was the way it unfolded (into success) here...

As for Florida, that may just be a case of first in and they or someone in Charlie's circle leaked the interest and Pioli's granting of permission to talk (which he would do as would Bill who learned one thing from Tuna that was never stand in someone's way if they are unhappy or unfulfilled in your situation). Charlie shouldn't have to go to college to get autonomy as an OC given all the demand that the plethora of HC partings will lead to this season. You would think recruiting would be an issue for him as he apparently needs knee surgery as soon as the season is over, but perhaps Florida's new HC wants him bad enough that he was willing to overlook that. And it could be Charlie doesn't want to wait and see if a pro HC/GM is willing to make similar health concessions or if the coordinator market will lag because of the uncertain CBA and a potential work stoppage.

Wow, if this is true, is Haley stupid or what? They were a mess last year before Charlie Weis got there.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

Wow, if this is true, is Haley stupid or what? They were a mess last year before Charlie Weis got there.

If so, Pioli needs to go to the owner and 'fix' the HC position

 

[alamo]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

If so, Pioli needs to go to the owner and 'fix' the HC position

When a team wins their division for the first time in years, the HC usually gets an extension, not "fixed".

Much more effective for Pioli to work with Haley to solve the problems. A new OC would be a good opportunity to start over too.

 

[DarrylS]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

Surprised at Charlie, didn't he want to stay close to his home because of his disabled daughter??

The Hannah Weis foundation is located in South Bend, Ind.

 

[patchick]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

The fact that this has been leaked before the playoffs is terrible for the Chiefs. A huge downer/distraction at the least (assuming some of the KC players feel about Weis the way Brady did), and potentially a source of conflict between the players and HC.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

When a team wins their division for the first time in years, the HC usually gets an extension, not "fixed".

Much more effective for Pioli to work with Haley to solve the problems. A new OC would be a good opportunity to start over too.

Your perspective on Haley as a HC differs from mine. I fail to see the value add. That said, admittedly good HCs aren't in great supply.

 

[RobAllan]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

Your perspective on Haley as a HC differs from mine. I fail to see the value add. That said, admittedly good HCs aren't in great supply.

I'm with you. I don't think Haley is a good HC, I think he got great coordinators this year. They should oust him and promote RAC or Charlie.

I looked at some Chiefs messageboards and most of them are wanting McDaniels and thinking that'll be an upgrade. Very odd times in KC all of a sudden.

 

[alamo]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

Your perspective on Haley as a HC differs from mine. I fail to see the value add. That said, admittedly good HCs aren't in great supply.

It's actually irrelevant whether he's a good coach or not. It's almost unheard of for a coach making the playoffs after a drought to get fired. It's far more common for them to get an extension instead. (e.g. Rex Ryan last year)

It has more to do with the ownership making the fans happy and hopeful for the future than whether the coach is any good.

 

[patchick]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

It's actually irrelevant whether he's a good coach or not. It's almost unheard of for a coach making the playoffs after a drought to get fired. It's far more common for them to get an extension instead. (e.g. Rex Ryan last year)

It has more to do with the ownership making the fans happy and hopeful for the future than whether the coach is any good.

...and that's what makes this situation unusual. It seems that a lot of the fans in KC attributed this season's success to Charlie & RAC, and are now heading into their first playoff game in years fuming at their head coach.

 

[PatsDeb]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

It's actually irrelevant whether he's a good coach or not. It's almost unheard of for a coach making the playoffs after a drought to get fired. It's far more common for them to get an extension instead. (e.g. Rex Ryan last year)

It has more to do with the ownership making the fans happy and hopeful for the future than whether the coach is any good.

What Pioli should be demanding (behind the scenes) is that Haley work it out with Weis. You don't think Charlie was a big reason for their meteoric rise in O this year?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

When a team wins their division for the first time in years, the HC usually gets an extension, not "fixed".

Much more effective for Pioli to work with Haley to solve the problems. A new OC would be a good opportunity to start over too.

Yeah, all too often that is the formula and as the coordinators move on teams don't have the kind of consistent success we did here... It all depends on who did what to achieve the turnaround. Pioli culled and drafted well and brought in some character guys including some he even got panned for when it didn't immediately take them to the promised land in year 1. Then HE brought in two veteran coordinators who know the system inside out since they helped shape it in their BB years. Haley is a different kind of cat. A coaches son but not a football lifer in many ways. Didn't play in college, his game was golf. Didn't start out with the system guys, just ran into them as a scouting holdover part of his father's staff in NY with the JETS. He was a position coach for one year on Charlie's staff. They didn't take him to NE with them when the system moved on and he was off to Dallas shortly thereafter and then on to AZ where he coordinated for a former OC in Wisenhut (who kept him on a short leash the first season and then watched him clash with his talent the second). He picked up some habits along the way that better suit his aggressive personality. Now he wants to do things his former mentor in this system thinks are not wise... He's lucky he didn't get Cassel damaged beyond repair last season trying to run before they could walk consistently. He even created a certain level of distrust in his franchise QB even as Pioli was working on a long term deal (kept talking competition with Croyle...). That led fans to question both Pioli and Cassel heading into this season. Charlie reeled all that back in and got the offense balanced and clicking.

Pioli set this fool up for success as a HC while he's apparently intent on doing it his way. Ego and impatience are killer qualities in this system. He leaves RAC alone because he doesn't have a clue defensively, he needs to leave his OC alone too when he's forgotten more than Haley will possibly ever know. I can't imagine Josh will follow Charlie again from the frying pan into the fire. And Haley would be foolish to ask for that since if they clash down the road Scott is liable to back the OC the third time that happens and have him replace the HC...

 

[alamo]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

What Pioli should be demanding (behind the scenes) is that Haley work it out with Weis.

That was effectively what I said in my earlier message, though I assumed Weis is as good as gone and Pioli needs Haley to work better with a new OC.

I never ever in this thread expressed an opinion on Haley up or down. I am simply saying there is almost zero chance he is fired over this.

I haven't checked any KC boards to judge for myself what the actual fan sentiment seems to be, recall that some here were asking for Weis' ouster years before he was hired away. Gauging fan sentiment is tricky, people who are happy don't speak up as much.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

...and that's what makes this situation unusual. It seems that a lot of the fans in KC attributed this season's success to Charlie & RAC, and are now heading into their first playoff game in years fuming at their head coach.

Over at chief's planet seems to be the other way around. Lots of NEM's over their who want to criticize Charlie's playcalling as too predictable. I guess they think they would have won more or won better some other way... Pioli is almost the forgotten man there. They seem to think Haley is the system architect, drafter, player developer, although they are well aware of the knocks against him personality/temperement wise... If Charlie goes they could be in for a very rude awakening.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

Weis and Haley are both hotheads. A failure to get along shouldn't be surprising, especially with the power structure reversed in comparison to what it was when they last worked together.

 

[WhiZa]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

I still never understood why the Chiefs signed a bunch of ex-Patriots after Pioli joined. Was it Haley's team or not?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

I still never understood why the Chiefs sign a bunch of ex-Patriots after Pioli joined. Was it Haley's team or not?

It's Pioli's.

 

[jmt57]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

I'm with you. I don't think Haley is a good HC, I think he got great coordinators this year. They should oust him and promote RAC or Charlie.

I looked at some Chiefs messageboards and most of them are wanting McDaniels and thinking that'll be an upgrade. Very odd times in KC all of a sudden.

I've seen that too; I guess the assumption is that any available former Pats coach will join the staff. But if Haley and Weiss supposedly can't get along, what's going to happen between Haley and McDaniels? Remember earlier this year when the Broncos blew out the Chiefs? McDaniels went to midfield to shake Haley's hand and with the cameras rolling Haley stuck his finger in McDaniels face, apparently lecturing and scolding him about something.

My guess is that Haley doesn't want McDaniels, and Josh is probably not too eager to work for Haley either.

 

[dhamz]

Re: OT: Charlie Weis to leave chiefs after this season?

Weis and Haley are both hotheads. A failure to get along shouldn't be surprising, especially with the power structure reversed in comparison to what it was when they last worked together.

This is exactly right.