ayjackson's Tackle/OL discussion

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think mid-first round is a sweet spot for the top tackles in this draft. I'm not sure what the plan is after Light.

There's no thread up on tackles, but what's the early feel about this year's crop? Is Vollmer a RT going forward or LT? Opine, cousins, opine!

It seems I may have more dysfunctional family than I knew!

Vollmer can play either side, and is an option for LT, but I expect him to stay at RT for continuity on the right side with potentially a new RG next season.

I expect Light to re-sign for a couple more years.

Kaczur is starter quality at either OT slot if needed, where he plays may depend on Mankins' and Neal's decisions.

I like Nate Solder and expect him to project to mid-first round. I think Solder can play either OT slot; I had projected him as a better RT to start with, but that goes back to the Vollmer discussion - do you shake up the entire line by moving Vollmer to LT and plugging a rookie in at RT? I think Solder will grow into a fine LT, so I'd not get too worried about starting him if Light left.

Worse case OL scenario: Light and Mankins leave in free agency, Neal retires.
-- Draft Solder (1st), two of OL Jason Pinkston/Clint Boling/Danny Watkins (2nd/3rd), and RT Jah Reid (7th). Two pure Tackles for depth. Two Four position OL for depth everywhere. Overkill perhaps, but if NE has to do a major rebuild on the O-line in a hurry, this is the year to do it with the depth everywhere else on the team except RB. Solder at #15 sets up a trade back at 1b and/or 2a to gain extra picks.
---- Kaczur at RT, Vollmer at LT.
---- Connolly goes to LG for his experience alongside Vollmer. Pinkston/Watkins understudies at LG and may even win the job outright.
---- Boling/Watkins/Pinkston battles Orhnberger, Wendell, and Ojinnaka for RG alongside the veteran Kaczur.
---- Solder develops as a Swing Tackle who is primed to take over for Kaczur who is signed through 2012, but will be 32 to start Training Camp. Reid is injury insurance at OT and competition for Ojinnaka and LeVoir.
---- Fans are unlikely to know how Maneri is progressing on the PSquad or how he will impact draft decisions, but we do know he does have 3 Practice Player of the Week awards, so he's at least working hard.
---- If Solder gets snagged before NE's Oakland pick Pinkston/Boling/Watkins are all LTs, with Boling also a RT/RG so there's still redundancy.

Next worst scenarios, Mankins leaves and Neal retires, but Light re-signs; draft Pinkston, Boling, Watkins, and Reid setting up a donnybrook for the Guard slots while creating flexibility all along the line; or Light and Mankins both leave but Neal stays one more year: draft Solder and two of Pinkston/Boling/Watkins.

 

[ayjackson]

I usually only spend January to May in these parts, but my recollection is that we are all cousins in at least one poster's mind and that we are certainly disfunctional.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

It seems I may have more dysfunctional family than I knew!

Vollmer can play either side, and is an option for LT, but I expect him to stay at RT for continuity on the right side with potentially a new RG next season.

I expect Light to re-sign for a couple more years.

Kaczur is starter quality at either OT slot if needed, where he plays may depend on Mankins' and Neal's decisions.

I like Nate Solder and expect him to project to mid-first round. I think Solder can play either OT slot; I had projected him as a better RT to start with, but that goes back to the Vollmer discussion - do you shake up the entire line by moving Vollmer to LT and plugging a rookie in at RT? I think Solder will grow into a fine LT, so I'd not get too worried about starting him if Light left.

Worse case OL scenario: Light and Mankins leave in free agency, Neal retires.
-- Draft Solder (1st), two of OL Jason Pinkston/Clint Boling/Danny Watkins (2nd/3rd), and RT Jah Reid (7th). Two pure Tackles for depth. Two Four position OL for depth everywhere. Overkill perhaps, but if NE has to do a major rebuild on the O-line in a hurry, this is the year to do it with the depth everywhere else on the team except RB. Solder at #15 sets up a trade back at 1b and/or 2a to gain extra picks.
---- Kaczur at RT, Vollmer at LT.
---- Connolly goes to LG for his experience alongside Vollmer. Pinkston/Watkins understudies at LG and may even win the job outright.
---- Boling/Watkins/Pinkston battles Orhnberger, Wendell, and Ojinnaka for RG alongside the veteran Kaczur.
---- Solder develops as a Swing Tackle who is primed to take over for Kaczur who is signed through 2012, but will be 32 to start Training Camp. Reid is injury insurance at OT and competition for Ojinnaka and LeVoir.
---- Fans are unlikely to know how Maneri is progressing on the PSquad or how he will impact draft decisions, but we do know he does have 3 Practice Player of the Week awards, so he's at least working hard.
---- If Solder gets snagged before NE's Oakland pick Pinkston/Boling/Watkins are all LTs, with Boling also a RT/RG so there's still redundancy.

Next worst scenarios, Mankins leaves and Neal retires, but Light re-signs; draft Pinkston, Boling, Watkins, and Reid setting up a donnybrook for the Guard slots while creating flexibility all along the line; or Light and Mankins both leave but Neal stays one more year: draft Solder and two of Pinkston/Boling/Watkins.

It seems to me that BB's drafting of early O line guys is part blocking scheme they played in in college and part physical makeup (fat slobby leaners need not apply) and part mental makeup (penalties, recognition, etc.)

He tends to take guys later in the draft and UDFAs that are projects and see if they can pick it up fast enough to secure a roster spot. If not and they make it through waivers, they can learn on the PS.

Based on these criteria I see quite a few O Line guys that could excel in our system with two guys for sure that can start from day one.

- Boiling of Georgia at OG. Flat back, nasty run blocker but he also has the feet and can sink his hips and anchor strongly to block against the pass.

- Ziemba of Auburn at ROT. An absolute beast as a run blocker. Strong and powerful and uses his hands well. Needs work on pass protection, but with Crumpler lined up on his shoulder, some of the weakness is covered up nicely.

Another big OT I like a lot is Hix of Texas. The inexperience at QB has given the Texas O Line fits this season, so B should be able to pick him up on day three.

 

[MaineMan]

Nicely done, both Box and Ochmed. Great prospect info, strategerizinging.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I usually only spend January to May in these parts, but my recollection is that we are all cousins in at least one poster's mind and that we are certainly disfunctional.

Well that "cousin" does remind me of my more dysfunctional family members; you, not so much.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

It seems to me that BB's drafting of early O line guys is part blocking scheme they played in in college and part physical makeup (fat slobby leaners need not apply) and part mental makeup (penalties, recognition, etc.)

He tends to take guys later in the draft and UDFAs that are projects and see if they can pick it up fast enough to secure a roster spot. If not and they make it through waivers, they can learn on the PS.

Based on these criteria I see quite a few O Line guys that could excel in our system with two guys for sure that can start from day one.

- Boiling of Georgia at OG. Flat back, nasty run blocker but he also has the feet and can sink his hips and anchor strongly to block against the pass.

- Ziemba of Auburn at ROT. An absolute beast as a run blocker. Strong and powerful and uses his hands well. Needs work on pass protection, but with Crumpler lined up on his shoulder, some of the weakness is covered up nicely.

Another big OT I like a lot is Hix of Texas. The inexperience at QB has given the Texas O Line fits this season, so B should be able to pick him up on day three.

The interesting thing about the five OL drafted in rounds 1-3 since BB took over:
-- four of the five came from mid-majors.
-- all were Left Tackles their senior year.
-- the last three were All-Conference First Team as seniors.
-- we know two of the last three played for the same OL Coach currently at Illinois.

BB/Coach Scar seem to harvest late round kids from the BCS conferences. Since 2000 NE has drafted two round 4-7 OL from mid-majors, the rest are all from BCS programs. NE has not dipped into the FCS or Div II/III/NAIA for an OL in the draft, though they don't mind grabbing one off the street for the Scarnecchia Big Man Dancing Academy.

Forecasting NE drafting an OL in 2011 may be wishful thinking, they've literally hoarded OL this season:
-- between the Active Roster, PSquad, and IR NE currently has 13 OL under contract, which is nearly Training Camp numbers. (I can't help but wonder if that's related to the CBA uncertainty, their draft quality projection, or a mixture of both.)
-- three of the OL are UFA, two of those are starters, but NE still has exclusive negotiating rights to them until March and the beginning of Free Agency.
-- I expect NE to make a strong effort to re-sign Light and Mankins, they shouldn't have a lot of competition for Ojinnaka.

Looking at this draft class I don't currently see any mid-major OTs who stand out as potential Scarnecchia projects, perhaps one will emerge in an All-Star game. Which leaves me looking at the BCS kids I listed above as the most likely suspects if NE "has" to replace a starter. While we both agree on Boling, I'm not as comfortable with Ziemba. I've tried to keep an eye on him since you raised his name at the start of the season, I see him as more of a fit for one of the "hog" teams, not so much as one of Scar's "gazelles."

Assuming Kaczur's rehab reports are positive, and NE retains at least one of Light or Mankins, and Neal doesn't decide to retire, I don't really see NE drafting an OL before the third round. Off course my record on forecasting which direction BB is going to jump in the draft is right up there with Kipers.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Nate Solder 6'8" 310LB Colorado. Looks more like Gronk. Scar can put 15lbs on him and make him an all pro. He's the most Pats like OL to me in the upcoming draft. However, he might be the first T off of the board. If Matt Light leaves, I can see us picking him early. Either 1a or 1b. Matt wouldn't be the first vet to leave for one last big pay day. And, I wouldn't blame him. But, I guarantee you that KC will kick the tires on him. Not sure what to make of the whole Mankins ordeal.

 

[SanAngeloState]

They may draft ryan pugh from auburn or steve schilling from Michigan.

That would work, I think. Push played LT as a freshman, so he must have pretty good feet.

 

[midwestpatsfan]

Being in big 12 country I had an opportunity to watch Soldier early on this season and came away completely unimpressed. I thought he was a heavy legged waistbender(mayock special there) and he got torched for 2 entire games against lesser compitetion. I only caught 1 big 12 game and that was the Iowa State game where he played better, but not what I would consider great. I am not in love with the OT talent this year. I would much rather draft the position later and resign light, but that is me.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Being in big 12 country I had an opportunity to watch Soldier early on this season and came away completely unimpressed. I thought he was a heavy legged waistbender(mayock special there) and he got torched for 2 entire games against lesser compitetion. I only caught 1 big 12 game and that was the Iowa State game where he played better, but not what I would consider great. I am not in love with the OT talent this year. I would much rather draft the position later and resign light, but that is me.

I watched a couple games early, including California where he was raked over the coals by draftniks and thought his big issue was inexperience, reportedly he's improved as the season progressed and I'm looking forward to seeing him in the Senior Bowl to see how he does against top competition.