Hypothetical Question about Patriots draft picks, round one and two

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Maybe this should be in the draft section of this forum, but it's really not about who they are going to draft.

The NFL rules work like this, to my understanding: If a team has a draft pick and chooses to pass, they would then be moved back one spot. For example, if the St. Louis Rams had passed on their first pick last year, then the Detroit Lions would have moved into the #1 slot, while the Rams would then pick second.

In 2009, the Patriots owned (I believe) the 41st and 42nd pick and let the time run out on 41, as this made no difference to them (the picks were simply swapped.)

So, here's the hypothetical question. Let's suppose that Carolina finishes last in the league and the Patriots win the Super Bowl. The Patriots would then have the 32nd and 33rd pick. The first day of the draft ends after the 32nd pick. So, let's suppose the Patriots passed on #32.

Would that mean that the first day would end (since every first round draft slot, which would not include the Pats second rounder), with the Pats sitting with the top-2 second day positions? I am curious about this. In my opinion it would be an enormous advantage, since they would then have two huge bargaining chips to trade to overzealous teams with time to rationalize, or they would have an extra day to consider the two best players on the board.

 

[SoCal Bong]

Very interesting.

I bet the NFL would make them pick on day 1 and possibly even allow them extra time if they tried this strategy by surprise.

The NFL would hate it if their prime time round 1 was not completed on schedule.

Let's hope we get the opportunity to see if they try it!

 

[unoriginal]

I would imagine that after the expiration of the clock on the 32nd pick, a new clock would begin for the 33rd pick (also the Pats in this example), followed by a clock for the 34th pick. Presuming that team rushed to the podium and made their pick, the 1st round would end at that point with the 32nd player selected.

The draft would then resume the next day with the 35th pick on the clock and proceed normally from there, with the Pats able to make the "32nd" and "33rd" selections at any time by turning in their draft cards.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I would imagine that after the expiration of the clock on the 32nd pick, a new clock would begin for the 33rd pick (also the Pats in this example), followed by a clock for the 34th pick. Presuming that team rushed to the podium and made their pick, the 1st round would end at that point with the 32nd player selected.

The draft would then resume the next day with the 35th pick on the clock and proceed normally from there, with the Pats able to make the "32nd" and "33rd" selections at any time by turning in their draft cards.

That may be how they do it, but let's remember the forfeited pick in 2008. The second round began on the 32nd overall pick; not because of the number of picks, but because every team had exhausted their first round pick (whether through a trade or selection.)

 

[Sciz]

Day 1 does not end until a player has been chosen with pick 32.

 

[JohnVM]

Lets say that day 1 does not end until 32 players have been chosen. Say we have 32, 33. Say we let time expire on both. Whoever is 34 then gets to pick the 32nd spot.

This would be a perhaps okay strategy depending on who 34 is and if we think they are going to pick any of the players we want.

This would then give us all night to wheel and deal our then 33 and 34th picks....

So even if they do force a 32nd player to be picked, that may be okay...

 

[sisundar]

Lets say that day 1 does not end until 32 players have been chosen. Say we have 32, 33. Say we let time expire on both. Whoever is 34 then gets to pick the 32nd spot.

This would be a perhaps okay strategy depending on who 34 is and if we think they are going to pick any of the players we want.

This would then give us all night to wheel and deal our then 33 and 34th picks....

So even if they do force a 32nd player to be picked, that may be okay...

If the Pats wanted to do this, wouldn't it be better for them to trade pick 32 in exchange for pick 34 + some compensation. Even though it's only 2 spots, I'm sure we could get atleast a 6th/7th round pick in addition.

 

[JohnVM]

If the Pats wanted to do this, wouldn't it be better for them to trade pick 32 in exchange for pick 34 + some compensation. Even though it's only 2 spots, I'm sure we could get atleast a 6th/7th round pick in addition.

I doubt we'd be able to facilitate that trade. Leaves only 1 team to trade w (whoever has 34) and means theyd be basically trading up just to fend us off from taking the player they think they want....

I see that as highly unlikely. Nonetheless, I'm far far far far from an expert on this. So perhaps.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Flaw in this theory....we won't have all night to trade the second pick of the second day. We will have 15 mins.

Nobody is going to want to trade for the 2nd pick of the day until they know who was drafted with the 1st pick of the 2nd day.

Granted the pick may still be more valuable cause teams will have overnight to reset the draft board and know who their one and two is.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I don't know what the exact rule is, but I could see Goodell just flipping out if the round didn't conclude because of the Patriots on some technicality. He might take away both picks right there in a massive fit of rage.

 

[stinkypete]

If the Pats wanted to do this, wouldn't it be better for them to trade pick 32 in exchange for pick 34 + some compensation. Even though it's only 2 spots, I'm sure we could get atleast a 6th/7th round pick in addition.

Hmmm, very interesting idea. It would give the Pats tremendous strategic advantage to have all night to plan for 2 consecutive picks.

Here's where that proposition fails in my mind, the teams most likely to pick at #33 and #34 are Cincinnati and Arizona. For my money, those are the 2 least likely teams to pony up for a second 1st round pick.

Cheap SOB's.

 

[WhiZa]

Day 1 does not end until a player has been chosen with pick 32.

Based on the rules that the OP mentioned this would be true. If the Pats passed twice then the 34 pick would become the 32nd pick on day 1.

This would definitely stir the pot. The 34th pick would of probably left the building by then. Unless they read this thread of course

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I doubt we'd be able to facilitate that trade. Leaves only 1 team to trade w (whoever has 34) and means theyd be basically trading up just to fend us off from taking the player they think they want....

I see that as highly unlikely. Nonetheless, I'm far far far far from an expert on this. So perhaps.

There's one other potential issue; at the moment, pick #32 can be signed for five years, but pick #33 can only be signed for four years. [I expect that unless a new CBA is reached before January 15 (the declaration deadline), whatever rules were in effect for the 2010 draft class will apply to 2011 as well; e.g., a rookie salary cap and whatever changes come with it would be implemented in 2012.]

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I don't know what the exact rule is, but I could see Goodell just flipping out if the round didn't conclude because of the Patriots on some technicality. He might take away both picks right there in a massive fit of rage.

I get your point, but as was established in S*****e, he CANNOT touch traded draft picks.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I get your point, but as was established in S*****e, he CANNOT touch traded draft picks.

Normally I'm from the don't ask permission, just present them with a fiat accompli school but were we (the Patriots in particular) to pull a surprise move, Goodell embarrassed and in a monumental hissey fit takes away our pick overnight before the Pats trade it. Has his legal team come up with some obscure jamoke league memo claiming it justifies his action. Time is too short for Kraft to appeal. I seriously would not screw with this tyrant. Bob Kraft kisses his ass for no small business reason.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I get your point, but as was established in S*****e, he CANNOT touch traded draft picks.

You're right, but I put nothing past him at this point. The rule interpretation changes mid-season this year made me realize he'll push his powers to their fullest extent, and then some to do whatever he feels is right.

There may be a loophole there we can expose, but if we don't take advantage of it quickly enough, I bet he does something ridiculous on the spot. He won't want anyone to think they outsmarted him.

Hopefully we win the Super Bowl so we can discuss this scenario as a real life scenario.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I doubt we'd be able to facilitate that trade. Leaves only 1 team to trade w (whoever has 34) and means theyd be basically trading up just to fend us off from taking the player they think they want....

I see that as highly unlikely. Nonetheless, I'm far far far far from an expert on this. So perhaps.

Not quite: they're also ensuring that a team beneath them doesn't leapfrog them, AND gaining the ability to sign the player for an extra year. So it's not entirely out of the question, although it's not a given, either.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

You're right, but I put nothing past him at this point. The rule interpretation changes mid-season this year made me realize he'll push his powers to their fullest extent, and then some to do whatever he feels is right.

There may be a loophole there we can expose, but if we don't take advantage of it quickly enough, I bet he does something ridiculous on the spot. He won't want anyone to think they outsmarted him.

Hopefully we win the Super Bowl so we can discuss this scenario as a real life scenario.

The other reason why this won't happen exactly as the OP suggested is that, as someone else noted, the team on the clock at the start of day two would be pick #35, not the Patriots. The Pats would have to rush those cards/trades up to the Commissioner in order to get them in.

 

[jsull87]

Maybe this should be in the draft section of this forum, but it's really not about who they are going to draft.

The NFL rules work like this, to my understanding: If a team has a draft pick and chooses to pass, they would then be moved back one spot. For example, if the St. Louis Rams had passed on their first pick last year, then the Detroit Lions would have moved into the #1 slot, while the Rams would then pick second.

In 2009, the Patriots owned (I believe) the 41st and 42nd pick and let the time run out on 41, as this made no difference to them (the picks were simply swapped.)

So, here's the hypothetical question. Let's suppose that Carolina finishes last in the league and the Patriots win the Super Bowl. The Patriots would then have the 32nd and 33rd pick. The first day of the draft ends after the 32nd pick. So, let's suppose the Patriots passed on #32.

Would that mean that the first day would end (since every first round draft slot, which would not include the Pats second rounder), with the Pats sitting with the top-2 second day positions? I am curious about this. In my opinion it would be an enormous advantage, since they would then have two huge bargaining chips to trade to overzealous teams with time to rationalize, or they would have an extra day to consider the two best players on the board.

i think someone in another thread which got onto this topic put it best... i don't think the 1st day would end until that 32nd pick was made. So maybe they would get double the time because they have that 33rd pick also but i think a pick would have to be made. Then they would still have the 1st pick of the next day.

love draft time with the pats... never dull

 

[Ochmed Jones]

i think someone in another thread which got onto this topic put it best... i don't think the 1st day would end until that 32nd pick was made. So maybe they would get double the time because they have that 33rd pick also but i think a pick would have to be made. Then they would still have the 1st pick of the next day.

love draft time with the pats... never dull

If we get #32 and #33, it represents a tremendous opportunity for BB to name his price, any price and see who is desperate enough to pay.

I don;t expect BB to negotiate and if no one wants to be bled,then I expect BB to send two cards to the podium, One on Friday and one on Saturday.