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Stop confusing an old man!


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Let me tell you more recent fans, it wasn't like this for the first 25 years I was watching the Pats. And it most likely will not be like this when Brady and BB are gone.

No kidding. I doubt anyone who was a fan during the Rust era, would be complaining about our win over the Colts.
 
The cold hard truth is that by the time BB and Brady are gone, the old-timers will probably have passed, and the younger fans will have dumped the team and moved on to something else.

/real_talk
 
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Yes they won. Yes the play calling on offense and defense became way too conservative in the fourth quarter. The offense, instead of doing what had gotten them 31 points suddenly went into the fetal position. Same thing with the defense, once the fourth quarter rolled around they went into that prevent crap and almost cost them the game. That's what people aren't happy about.

Baloney. The Pats worked their defensive game plan to near perfection, the entire game giving Peyton no quick, cheap scores. They invited,(forced ), Peyton to take short passes over the middle and burn clock, himself, even as the Pats offense burned clock with 170 yards on the ground. Occasionally, they would make Peyton pay for the short passes with 3 INTs, and should have had 5.

The most prolific offense in the NFL scored 31 points, three over their average. they too did their part, to near perfection.

I recall what Joe Kennedy, Pere, said on the close election of JFK. "My money bought him the Presidential election. But I'll be damned, if I will buy a landslide."
 
I agree. I turned on the radio after the game (in the car going to dinner) and one guys (I believe he goes by "GRESH") was talking about how he was glad that they won, but could not share in the excitement because the defense did not close out the game. He said, "sure they got the pick, but they still didn't CLOSE out the game."

I was perturbed by that comment. Why do we ALWAYS have to win with style for everyone to be happy. Why can't we just be satisfied with a WIN against a quality opponent? If Pats fans are unhappy with the outcome, then reason would perhaps dictate that the Colts are. Do you think Colt's messageboards are filled with threads of "We may have lost, but we sure made it interesting!!!!". No, they are not happy. They lost. We won, so we should be happy.


I for one, am shocked that they are even in a position to be winning these games. Entering the season, the Pats had guys STARTING on defense when I would have been scared if they were my backups. They are still predictably last in some categories, but they are still winning. Just be happy.
 
I'd define a significant playoff run for this team as winning at least one playoff game.

So you don't think the Pats "have the horses" to win a playoff game, even though if they beat the Jets they will have beaten every probably AFC playoff team already? Come on now, that doesn't make much sense.
 
I considered overall talent in making my argument and concluded that we just don't have the horses for a significant playoff run, due mostly to shortcomings defensively in talent and experience. I differ with you here:

* Without a healthy and productive Fred Taylor, the RBs are average.
* The tight ends are showing flashes of huge potential, but are inconsistent.
* Welker and Branch can't get it done by themselves; we need Tate to step up and make a statement.
* The defensive line and linebackers can't muster a consistent pass rush and the linebackers lag in pass coverage.
* The defensive backfield will be solid eventually but lacks experience, and whichever CB plays opposite McCourty is on shaky ground.
* Pass defense is this team's Achilles heel.

I don't see this team winning a playoff game at either Indy or New Jersey if things remain as they are now. I could see them having a reasonable shot at beating anyone else in the AFC

I think you need a new prescription for your glasses. This team is getting better in all aspects every week. The Offense is growing more productive both in their run and pass, and with growing consistency. The Pats O is now consistently rushing for around 135 plus yards a game, or more. Thsoe are championship stats, on the ground. The Patriots Offesne lead the league in the only really important stats, scoring and winning.

The Defense is progressing nicely too. The run defense has stiffened to the point where it of a full championship caliber, now yielding under 100 yards a game. Oh sure, the early Ravens and Jets, and the out-lier Browns games are exceptions, that distort the real stats.

The Pass pressure in steadily increasing, even if the sack totals are not. Belichick's Bend-don't Break is working too. Even as it distorts the stats. Purposely inviting the short pass over the middle, but in front of the deep backs, and LBs will yield yards, but not cheap, quick scores.

Opposing Teams have to work their way down the field over a number of plays consistently, without a pick, or a dropped pass, or a fumble, or a sack, or a good pass defense play. Eight times in ten, the other guys couldn't do it, enough.

This rope-a-dope strategy, inviting short pass completions, limits the number of sacks the Pats pass rushers can accumulate. The pass rushers don't have the time to get there, but they are increasingly forcing pressure and errant throws. I don't recall Peyton ever getting as much pressure,if not sacks, as in this game.

I don't recall a game either, where Peyton made 5 mistakes throwing the ball, and the Pats got 3 INTs, and should/could have had 2 more.

As far as talent is concerned, I echo the comment that the fast, raw talent is there. There are 2 number 1s on the DL, and a number 2; there are 1 number 1s, and 2 number 2s in the LB corps; and there are 2 number 1s, and 3 number 2s, in the DBs. The talent is there, but very young, and learning to play together.

So I fail to understand your comment as to "not getting better" in the remaining 6 games, and playoffs. It flys in the face of Belichikian history too. His teams generally get better as the season progresses, for two reasons. He always has more genuine depth than others, and he plays his newcomers, draftees and FAs early. So they get and have experience later in the season. His depth is showing now, he has lost three probowlers, and is still winning, as others cry "Injury" excuses.

There are seveal players who are developing this year. Unexpectedly, Guyton has been transformed as an inside pass defender. This year's Chung is night and day compared to his rookie year version. Cunningham is coming on, so is Ninkovich. Brace, Pryor, and Deadrick along with re-juvenated G. Warren, are providing key freshness and competency to the D-line. Zoltan has transformed the Punting, into a weapon. So has Tate transformed the returning, into a feared weapon. Mayo is making a bid for a Probowl berth. Most of all they are all coachable, follow the game plan, without free-lancing. What's not to like?
 
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This board makes my head hurt. I watched the game -- we won. At least that is the way I remember it. It was only two days ago.

But then I see the threads and think. I must be going senile. I am getting old. We could not possibly have all these thread about our offense and defense being ineffective if we had won, so we must have lost. So I go to nfl.com and sure enough we did win, just as I remembered.

How do your multiple threads of this nature help the situation?
 
I considered overall talent in making my argument and concluded that we just don't have the horses for a significant playoff run, due mostly to shortcomings defensively in talent and experience. I differ with you here:

* Without a healthy and productive Fred Taylor, the RBs are average.
* The tight ends are showing flashes of huge potential, but are inconsistent.
* Welker and Branch can't get it done by themselves; we need Tate to step up and make a statement.
* The defensive line and linebackers can't muster a consistent pass rush and the linebackers lag in pass coverage.
* The defensive backfield will be solid eventually but lacks experience, and whichever CB plays opposite McCourty is on shaky ground.
* Pass defense is this team's Achilles heel.

I don't see this team winning a playoff game at either Indy or New Jersey if things remain as they are now. I could see them having a reasonable shot at beating anyone else in the AFC

You're a tough sell, Tune. You don't need to be championship-caliber at every position to win a SB. Even the 1985 Bears had a flaw or two.
 
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So you don't think the Pats "have the horses" to win a playoff game, even though if they beat the Jets they will have beaten every probably AFC playoff team already? Come on now, that doesn't make much sense.

Things are a lot different in the playoffs, especially between teams that have played each other and adjust accordingly. But, I certainly hope you are right and I am wrong.
 
orig-10027511.jpg

Awesome. (and my first name is Debbie).
 
Great victory against the Colts. The Defense (I call it the Lava Cake defense) came up big when it had to. However, no, I do not like the Defense. As Gerry Callahan said in his column today (Boston Herald) Bend and don't break is one thing, bending over is something else completely.

The Pats pass defense is ranked second to last. Opposing QB's put up career numbers against them. This does not bode well for a playoff run (assuming the Pats get in). I hope for the best, but this lava cake d scares the sh*t out of me. All that said, I see potential and I think McCourty will be very, very good. I think Chung will continue to grow and learn to cover better; he already hits like a truck in run stop. Bodden coming back helps immensely. Finding an LB that has some coverage skills would be nice. A pass rush would be epic.

However, our main competition in the division has its share of issues as well. I can't quite put my finger on it.....but it seems that the Jets pass rush sucks too. They can cover it better because they have two outstanding db's and I think their LB Harris is a monster. But still, you can't continue to win at the last second. Eventually it will bite you in the a@@...especially against a team with a winning record. I would imagine so, anyway. Perhaps they play down to the competition? I 'dunno. I do know that confidence is one thing - over-confidence is an entirely different animal.

I don't know what a lava cake is, but I do believe you were in the thread where a few of us tried to explain to you and others, that this defense was starting to look a lot like the 2009 Saints defense. And so far nothing has happened to make me change that opinion. This lava cake defense has already beat the top playoff teams with the exception of the Jets.

Right now it looks like Pats/Jets out of the East, Baltimore/Pitt out of the North. Most likely SD in the West and I'm sticking with the Colts in the South. The Jets are the only team on that list that we haven't beat, and we get another shot in 13 days. So how does this style of defense not bold well for a playoff run? :confused:

This defense comes up big in big moments. I don't care about 3rd down defense, completion %, TOP etc...bottom line...did they hold the opposing team to less points than our offense scored? As long as the answer is yes, then nothing else matters. And so far that is happening at an 80% clip. I'll take it.
 
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Last time I checked all that counted was who won and who lost.. there was not column for should've lost, or could've lost..

These are good days folks.. enjoy and cherish them, all the while remembering franchises like Minnesota, Carolina etc.
 
This board makes my head hurt. I watched the game -- we won. At least that is the way I remember it. It was only two days ago.

But then I see the threads and think. I must be going senile. I am getting old. We could not possibly have all these thread about our offense and defense being ineffective if we had won, so we must have lost. So I go to nfl.com and sure enough we did win, just as I remembered.

If you don't like the contents of the threads then don't read them.
Or just stay away entirely.
Either way please stop whining about what other Patriot fans are doing. :rolleyes:
 
I think at this stage the defense is what it is and will not get much better. 2012 will be our year.
I'd rather see Cunningham rush the quarterback than Arrington! WTF was that against the Colts?
 
If you don't like the contents of the threads then don't read them.
Or just stay away entirely.
Either way please stop whining about what other Patriot fans are doing. :rolleyes:

Pot meet Kettle...;)
 
I'd rather see Cunningham rush the quarterback than Arrington! WTF was that against the Colts?

Part of the increasingly difficult task of confusing Manning. It worked, too, in that Manning came into the game with 4 intercepts on the season and gave up 3 during the game.

Arrington actually got a pressure or two in there.

I think the deal with Cunningham is just that they want to keep him fresh. He's clearly now our best all-round OLB. He's already in a wrestling match on almost every running down, and his quickness is a big part of his pass rush game. As it was when he was in there he had at least 3 hurries, including the crucial one that forced bad a throw that Sanders picked off.

I'm sure glad Crable wasn't in there at the end. I think Crable's demise is directly related to the recognition that they'd rather have Cunningham as a play maker out there in the pass rush packages -- and that Crable can't play the run and can't or won't play special teams...
 
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You're allowed to be satisfied with the team's overall performance vs. expectations while at the same time able to point out areas where the team needs to be better at. That's what you want in sports, not to blow out every opponent but to improve week to week and adjust to your mistakes.

We don't need to fly off the handle everytime somebody has a criticism to something. I can see getting so defensive if people are calling for someone to be fired/cut but really people on both sides of this need to chill out a bit.
 
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I'm sure glad Crable wasn't in there at the end. I think Crable's demise is directly related to the recognition that they'd rather have Cunningham as a play maker out there in the pass rush packages -- and that Crable can't play the run and can't or won't play special teams...
3-4 outside linebacker should be the highest priority for the New England Patriots in the 2011 NFL Draft. Tully Banta-Cain will turn 31 years old at the start of the 2011 NFL Season. Rob Ninkovich only has one sack this season and only two sacks for his career.
 
3-4 outside linebacker should be the highest priority for the New England Patriots in the 2011 NFL Draft. Tully Banta-Cain will turn 31 years old at the start of the 2011 NFL Season. Rob Ninkovich only has one sack this season and only two sacks for his career.

Agreed. TBC is not a 3 down guy and BB knows this.
 
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