Pats at Lions pre-game thread

[jmt57]

With the win against the Colts just barely 24 hours old it seems way too early to start this thread.
But reality is kickoff is at Detroit is just 2½ days away.

Pats are listed as a 6½ to 7 point favorite.

As a franchise the Pats lead the series 5-4; Pats are 2-1 against Detroit under Belichick, and 2-0 with Brady at QB. Pats won 28-21 in '06 at home, won 20-12 in '02 away, and lost 34-9 at Detroit in 2000.
Boxscore finder: New England Patriots vs Detroit Lions - Pro-Football-Reference.com



While most of the folks on this board seem to be giving the Lions a lot of credit for improving this year, the mood is not quite so upbeat in Detroit after losing to the Cowboys:

How can we really say the Lions have progressed? | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

We can sit here and say that the Lions have made progress. We can point to the close losses and the improved defensive line and the improved offensive play calling. But 2-8 is 2-8. And 26 losses in a row on the road is just that: 26 losses in a row on the road. Words are so tired at this point. As long as the losing continues, words are useless.

Let’s just state the facts.

• In consecutive weeks, the Lions lost to an 0-8 team and a 2-7 team. How are you making progress when you essentially serve as a homecoming opponent for struggling teams?

• The Lions have committed at least 10 penalties in five of their last six games. Even if you want to take away Ndamukong Suh's “horse collar” penalty the officials clearly blew, that’s still an alarming number. I have no doubt that Schwartz and the coaching staff are working to eliminate the ugly trend. But how are you making progress when nothing improves?

• The running game continues to be nonexistent. They ran the ball 20 times Sunday for 75 yards against a defense that came into the game allowing more than 117 yards per game (22nd in the NFL). Sure, Kevin Smith is out, and Jahvid Best is hobbled. But how are you making progress when you can't establish a running game against some of the worst defenses in the league?

• Bryant Johnson was in street clothes Sunday, and he wasn’t hurt. How are you making progress when you’re paying a guy $3.1 million, and he's not even good enough play for a team that doesn’t have a good option for a No. 3 receiver?

 

[IcyPatriot]

Sheesh I have not had time to scout and form any opinions yet ... still savoring yesterday.

Why the Lions every year ... this tradition needs to be changed.

 

[jmt57]

Here's a short column looking at the Pats from Detroit's perspective.
I had forgotten their coach had once worked with Belichick.

Scouting the Lions' next opponent: The Patriots | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

STUDENT VS. MASTER

Speaking of Belichick, Jim Schwartz is one of his eight former assistants who have become NFL head coaches. Schwartz broke down film and prepared scouting reports for Belichick in Cleveland in 1993-95. Last year, Belichick said "Schwartzie" was "probably the smartest" assistant the Browns had. Let's see if Schwartzie can prove him right Thursday.

Kind of an ugly mood there judging from the comment section, but I guess that's to be expected when your team is 2-8 and you haven't been to the playoffs in eleven years. Anyways, found this one comment there that may be a big reason for their lack of success:

Here's the Lions' penalties by week this season:

1. 7/40 yards
2. 9/75
3. 8/67
4. 13/102
5. 7/40 (W - Rams)
6. 11/91
7. BYE
8. 10/77 (W - Redskins)
9. 11/99
10. 11/60
11. 10/76

With a month of preseason to prepare those loveble losers only committed an average of 8 penalties a game for the first 3 weeks. Since then, they have committed less than ten penalties only once! With 3 days to prepare, could the Lions be seeking an all-time NFL record for the number of yellow flags? GO LIONS...You can do it

The Pats are not the only team with a running back sidelined by turf toe:
Lions RB Jahvid Best's injured toes still not better | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

"Jahvid's been struggling with his toe since the Minnesota game," coach Jim Schwartz said. "And it's been something that has, rather than progressively get better, it's been one of those ones that's progressively hindered him more and more. We tried to stop that slide and tried to limit his play time, get him in certain packages."

Best suffered a sprained left toe in the opener at Chicago and a sprained right big toe in Week 3 against the Vikings. He said the injuries "take turns" affecting his play.

"Some days I feel good and some days I just have bad days," Best said. "In the pregame warm-ups I was feeling pretty good, but it just ended up not being so good."

The Lions (2-8) have the NFL's 31st-ranked rushing offense and had just 75 yards on 20 carries against the Cowboys.

Best, who hasn't rushed for more than 50 yards since an Oct. 10 win over the Rams, said he expects to play Thursday against the Patriots.

With Best out the Lions went with Maurice Morris at RB; Kevin Smith was placed on IR Saturday.



Then there was this:

Linebacker DeAndre Levy said the Cowboys' 98-yard touchdown drive on their opening possession was fueled in part by a malfunctioning communication system in his helmet.

"Speaker wasn't working, probably for half the plays," Levy said. "Some plays it was completely out. It was just a lot of panic on that first drive."

Coaches call plays on offense and defense through a microphone that feeds directly into the helmet of a select player on each side of the ball.

Levy said he couldn't recall what plays he did not receive from the sideline, or if they led to big gains. Without the radio, he called several plays on his own, piecing together the input he got from the sideline.

"It doesn't matter," he said. "They came out and did the same thing again in the third quarter."

How about letting the refs know? In that situation you notify them and then neither team gets use of the mic-to-helmet communication.



Schwartz had what I thought was an odd choice of words to describe the short week, given the fact the Lions often draft early:

Schwartz, on playing on short rest this week against the Patriots: "Usually we have a 24-hour rule. We can't afford a 24-hour rule right now. Our 24 hours has already passed -- 48 hours has already passed. We're on the clock, and we're getting ready for New England."

 

[jmt57]

Sheesh I have not had time to scout and form any opinions yet ... still savoring yesterday.

Yeah, I'm with you. Just thought it might be a nice change of pace from another "Pats defense sucks" thread.

Why the Lions every year ... this tradition needs to be changed.

Good question. Maybe the networks figure they have a captive audience and are going to get good ratings regardless of who is playing on Thanksgiving - which saves at least one better team for a Sunday game.



Some more commentary from Detroit on whether or not the Lions should continue to play on Thanksgiving - as well as some more opinion on Jahvid Best, and all the Lions' penalties:
Three Lions questions with Drew Sharp | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Pros to a Thursday game: Only gotta wait 2 more days to watch my patsies.

Cons: I'm going to be ripping my hair out during an 11 day wait for the showdown w/ the Jest

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

And oh yes, I'm totally clueless when it comes to the Lions. All I know is they played the Jets real tough a couple weeks ago and are alot better this year. And supposedly tough to beat at home.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

The Pats are not the only team with a running back sidelined by turf toe:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...ips-OL-Raiola-fires-back&template=fullarticle

Just another example of why a deep rotation at the RB position is better than a "feature back" strategy.

 

[jmt57]

Some more on Best: Ailing Lions RB Jahvid Best can't put best feet forward | detnews.com | The Detroit News

It was suggested Best be shut down during the week, giving him an extra 10 days to get healthy for the game Thursday against New England. Schwartz shot that down, saying the Lions were trying to win in Dallas.

"If we didn't think he could help us on Sunday, we wouldn't play him," Schwartz said.

Now it appears Best is a long shot to be ready to play Thursday.

"The kind of person I am, I never want to sit down," Best said. "I always want to be in there. I am just going to get in the training room and hope for the best."

On the other hand, I hope Dan Koppen gets some extra help Thursday.
I really don't want to see this good a performance against the Pats:

Ndamukong Suh was an extremely loud presence on the field.

The rookie defensive tackle led the Lions with eight tackles. He shared a sack with Lawrence Jackson. He had at least one hit on quarterback Jon Kitna. He earned the Lions a safety when he was held in the end zone by veteran Leonard Davis.

I'm guessing there will be some comparisons between Rob Gronkowski and Brandon Pettigrew leading up to or during the game. Pettigrew had 8 catches for 75 yards Sunday against the Cowboys, and now has 50 receptions for 487 yards and 3 touchdowns this year.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

Suh is a beast, no doubt. Look for Gronk and/or Crumpler to motion behind RG as an extra pass or run blocker.

 

[jmt57]

Lions Monday Playback: Patriots are perfect holiday guest

There aren't many times when a football team can benefit from having its routine interrupted with a short week of preparation for a game on Thursday.

This is one of those weeks for the Lions.

For where they are, and what they've done and haven't done in the last month, hosting the New England Patriots in the traditional Thanksgiving Day game at Ford Field on Thursday comes at a good time. Playing a perennial Super Bowl contender on national television -- and with Kid Rock performing at halftime -- should add a jolt of inspiration to a Lions team that has had its goals shattered in a three-game losing streak.

The column above also has an interesting look at the discrepancy between the way the league schedules games leading up to the Thanksgiving game for the Lions and Cowboys, as well as discrepancies on fines for late hits.



Patriots, Lions square off again - Fall River, MA - The Herald News

It’s the NFL’s version of leap year.

The New England Patriots versus the Detroit Lions: It happens every four years.

The Patriots and Lions last got together on Dec. 3, 2006, blasts from the past like Artrell Hawkins (10 tackles), Mike Vrabel (a pair of fourth-quarter interceptions), Rosevelt Colvin (two sacks, one a strip sack of Detroit quarterback Jon Kitna) and Reche Caldwell (eight receptions for 112 yards) playing lead roles in New England’s 28-21 win at Gillette Stadium.

The Patriots last traveled to Ford Field four years before, arriving as Thanksgiving Day guests of the Lions for a Nov. 28, 2002, game that saw Troy Brown haul in 10 passes from Tom Brady, Tedy Bruschi return a first-quarter interception of a Joey Harrington pass 27 yards for a touchdown, and the hosts limited to four Jason Hanson field goals in a 20-12 loss to New England.

Not much time to get ready for the Lions | New England Patriots | projo.com | The Providence Journal

The Lions have a couple of advantages over New England. For one thing, they don’t have to travel and can use Wednesday as a preparation day at their facility. For another, the Thanksgiving game is a traditional part of their schedule.

“It’s great to be in the routine every year,” said Belichick, who worked as an assistant coach in Detroit in the mid-1970s. “It’s a game that you knew every year was your game, that you were going to be playing at home and you were going to be playing at [12:30]. Whatever the weekly routine and getting ready for it — Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday — it’s the same thing you did last year. It’s something you were comfortable with and looking forward to”

But Detroit has another significant advantage. Belichick and Tom Brady are the same coach and quarterback the Lions faced at Gillette Stadium in 2006 and in a Thanksgiving game at Ford Field in 2002. Detroit, on the other hand, has undergone almost a complete turnover since the Patriots last played them. The Lions’ best running back is a rookie. Their best wide receiver is in his fourth season. Even journeyman quarterback Shaun Hill has never thrown a pass in a game against the Pats.

The Lions’ best defensive player — nose tackle Ndamukong Suh — not only is just a rookie, but he was so highly touted coming out of college and went so high in the draft that the Patriots never had a shot at him and likely didn’t heavily scout him.

MacPherson notes that the Lions coaching staff includes a couple of former Pats: Shawn Jefferson and Sam Gash.

In order to cram as much preparation into the short week as possible, the Patriots on Monday skimmed through what normally would have been a thorough breakdown of Sunday’s game against the Colts. They haven’t had a chance to go too far back through the Lions’ season, however.

“There’s a lot coming at you, and you’ve got to squeeze a lot in when you normally have the extra couple of days,” Light said. “We started on it today, and we’ll continue to build the little things — the red area, third down, all that stuff — come tomorrow.”

Said linebacker Gary Guyton: “We’re just trying to come in and watch film as much as we can and pick up on any habits, any tendencies that we can. … You always want to come in and correct the things you want to do. But our main focus right now is the Lions.”

Any specific game-planning the Patriots do for the Lions will have to come in only one or two areas rather than every area — throwing a wrinkle into their pass coverage, for example, or trying something new in the run game. There just isn’t time to do everything they otherwise might.

“You have to pick your spots,” Belichick said. “If you want to try and do something that is maybe a little bit different and specific for them, you might have to give it up somewhere else. I don’t think you can do it in all areas. I think you have to pick your spots. You can maybe do a couple of things, a couple of plays, but it’s not an infinite number. You just can’t practice it.”

 

[Urgent]

Just looked at the stats. Interesting.
For a 2-8 team:
- They have more yardage than their opponents
- They have held the ball over 30 minutes a game
- They have a positive turnover differential
- They have scored just 3 points fewer than their opponents

Calvin Johnson is having another great year, with 10 TD's so far.
Rookie DT Suh has 7 sacks already.

Their running game is killing them, especially since Best has been hindered with toe injuries. Best, their leading rusher, has 382 yards. Losing Stafford was a blow.

 

[jmt57]

Just another example of why a deep rotation at the RB position is better than a "feature back" strategy.

Remember when people were calling for the Pats to cut BJGE in training camp so they could use the extra roster spot on another position? Scary to think where the Pats would be right now if they had done that and another team picked him up.

Suh is a beast, no doubt. Look for Gronk and/or Crumpler to motion behind RG as an extra pass or run blocker.

Great idea, I hadn't thought of that.

 

[jmt57]

Their running game is killing them, especially since Best has been hindered with toe injuries. Best, their leading rusher, has 382 yards. Losing Stafford was a blow.

If Best can't go then their leading rusher that is playing Thursday will be their backup QB, Shaun Hill - with all of 79 yards rushing this year.
Detroit Lions Stats at NFL.com

As for the QB position, this will be the 4th straight year with a different primary QB for the Lions, and 5th in six years:
2010: Shaun Hill
2009: Matt Stafford
2008: Dan Orlovsky
2007: Jon Kitna
2006: Jon Kitna
2005: Joey Harrington

But check this out: the four years Harrington started were actually the golden years in terms of consistency at QB for the Lions for most Detroit fans. The last time before Harrington that the Lions had the same (primary) starting quarterback for at least four consecutive years was before most NFL fans were born, when Bobby Layne was their QB from 1950 to 1957.

Detroit Lions Team Encyclopedia - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[mosi]

This game worries me simply because the Pats will have absolutely no practice time for this game. And we all know how important practice is for this team.

Also, the Lions always get up for this game. It is their superbowl.

 

[patchick]

Remember when people were calling for the Pats to cut BJGE in training camp so they could use the extra roster spot on another position? Scary to think where the Pats would be right now if they had done that and another team picked him up.

To be fair, the Patriots DID dump an RB to use the extra roster spot on another position! So the basic concept that RB was overstuffed at 5 was solid; it was up to the coaching staff to say who was most expendable.

In other news, perhaps the description of how playing Best despite his foot injuries has made the injuries worse can cool down some of the folks who seem to think that Taylor not playing reflects poorly on his character and manhood?

And on a final, personal note: I spend Thanksgiving with relatives who don't have a tv.

 

[HomerSchooled]

This game worries me simply because the Pats will have absolutely no practice time for this game. And we all know how important practice is for this team.

Also, the Lions always get up for this game. It is their superbowl.

I don't know if that's true. Past few years, the Lions have played some of their worst games of the season on Thanksgiving. They haven't won or even kept it within ten points since 2003.

I'm worried too, though. This feels just like the week before Cleveland.

 

[Steve102]

Lions cant run the ball. Pettigrew has 50 catches, tied for NFL lead among TE's. The key will be to take away the TE option, and make Hill beat them with Johnson. They wont be able to compete with Brady and moving the ball around to the open guy. The TE is a big part of the Lions offense.

The Voice of The Fan...Fanviewpoint.com: Belichick Discusses Lions Tight Ends

 

[jmt57]

Lions cant run the ball. Pettigrew has 50 catches, tied for NFL lead among TE's. The key will be to take away the TE option, and make Hill beat them with Johnson. They wont be able to compete with Brady and moving the ball around to the open guy. The TE is a big part of the Lions offense.

The Voice of The Fan...Fanviewpoint.com: Belichick Discusses Lions Tight Ends

The Lions offense certainly does seem rather one dimensional. I'm somewhat surprised that they rank as high as they do on offense (15th in points, 23.4; 19th in yards, 336) considering how bad they are running the ball (80.5 yards per game and 3.5 yards per carry, both 31st.)

I'm not sure if it is because they have no running game, because they are usually behind or both, but check this out: the Lions have run the ball 233 times and have dropped back to pass an NFL-high 456 times; that's virtually a 2:1 pass-run ratio, highest in the league.

 

[PatriotsInGA]

The key will be the first half. Both teams are still tired from Sunday, and whoever can control the momentum in the firs half will have the best chance of winning the game. If the Pats come out with the energy they had against the Colts in the first half, then the game should be in their favor.

On the other hand, if the Lions come out firing on all cylinders in the first half, we could be in for a dogfight for the whole game.

 

[Steve102]

The Lions offense certainly does seem rather one dimensional. I'm somewhat surprised that they rank as high as they do on offense (15th in points, 23.4; 19th in yards, 336) considering how bad they are running the ball (80.5 yards per game and 3.5 yards per carry, both 31st.)

I'm not sure if it is because they have no running game, because they are usually behind or both, but check this out. The Lions have run the ball 233 times and dropped back to pass an NFL-high 456 times.

Lack of running game will hurt Detroit. Belechick will dare the Lions to beat them vertically.