Biggest Concern Post-Moss: Bill O'Brien

[DropKickFlutie]

So Randy Moss, 2nd best receiver ever, is not on the team anymore.
I have 1000% faith in Bill Belichick and Tom Brady that this team will always be a contender with this pair still around.

My biggest concern, however, is that Bill O'Brien is the offensive coordinator. I know the OC is always bashed here as a convenient scapegoat, but in this particular case I think he is a glaring weak link on the team.

Since 2009, under Bill O'Brien the Patriots have been the best 1st half team in the league, but completely underwhelming in the 2nd half. Tom Brady has the worst road 4th quarter QB rating of any QB since 2009. To me, this tells me that there is enough talent on the team and that they start games with good game plans, but that coaching is an issue once the game starts. Bill Belichick simply can't be in 4 different places at the same time, he's merely one man.

Making comparisons to 2001-2004 don't really make sense to me, because at that time you had two very experienced coordinators who were trained under Bill Parcells working for Belichick. It's very different now.

 

[Water Boy]

Since 2009, under Bill O'Brien the Patriots have been the best 1st half team in the league, but completely underwhelming in the 2nd half. Tom Brady has the worst road 4th quarter QB rating of any QB since 2009. To me, this tells me that there is enough talent on the team and that they start games with good game plans, but that coaching is an issue once the game starts.

I think the 2nd half struggles up to this point have had a lot to do with personnel. Prior to this year it was the Moss & Welker show with little extra variety. They were very predictable. Now that there are three legit TEs in the mix, the Pats offense is more varied. I specially like how they can pass out of run friendly formations with multiple TEs on the field.

 

[Simkin]

This guy cant get it done.

 

[RayClay]

Yup, put up or shut up time. He's still got plenty of offensive talent IMO.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I think the 2nd half struggles up to this point have had a lot to do with personnel.

How is it a personnel problem, when the *exact* same talent on offense and defense had the NFL's best 1st half points differential (then repeatedly fell apart in the 2nd half)? How is it a personnel problem when the exact same talent plays so much better at home than it does on the road? Including this past Sunday's win, the Patriots are 2 for 8 in their last 8 American away games.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

I think the guy's a major league dud with the creative imagination of a stick person artist.

He's really gonna get tested from here on out.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Never thought I'd say this but I think we're okay with BOB. This might force us to run less spread and a greater committment to running the ball. Then again it may not.

 

[mgcolby]

How is it a personnel problem, when the *exact* same talent on offense and defense had the NFL's best 1st half points differential (then repeatedly fell apart in the 2nd half)? How is it a personnel problem when the exact same talent plays so much better at home than it does on the road? Including this past Sunday's win, the Patriots are 2 for 8 in their last 8 American away games.

The argument goes both ways. I mean do you think O'Brien suddenly forgets how to make adjustments on the road?

 

[Ron Sellers]

Wow, we couldn't even go 48 hours without another '2nd half problems' thread.

 

[Brady2Welker]

To clear this up, Randy Moss is the 2nd best statistically ever, yes. But he's not the best WR in the league currently. Top 5, maybe. But it's not like we're giving away Andre Johnson for a third.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Wow, we couldn't even go 48 hours without another '2nd half problems' thread.

It's an issue when the team just traded away arguably its most talented football player.

This past Sunday 21 points were scored by special teams or defense, so one can't really point to that and say the offense is fine because Moss didn't get any catches. Just by being on the field, Moss changes the entire defense.

 

[BelichickFan]

I'm not worried about O'Brien, he's clearly not interested in a "get it to Moss whatever the cost" offense so now he can run the offense as he sees fit without having Moss' shadow over him. I'm more concerned about the two outside WR than O'Brien although I am cautiously optimistic about Tate.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

so now he can run the offense as he sees fit without having Moss' shadow over him.

This is certainly an interesting take on the situation.


"Moss's shadow" is what made this entire offense prolific whether he got the ball or not.

Without Moss, O'Brien will have to sink or swim on his own merits now, and I'm not holding my breath that he's going to get the job done.

At least from 2001-2004, while we had smurf receivers we also had an experienced coordinator who had been trained by Parcells.

 

[emoney_33]

The argument goes both ways. I mean do you think O'Brien suddenly forgets how to make adjustments on the road?

It wasn't only on the road last season...

 

[BelichickFan]

This is certainly an interesting take on the situation.

"Moss's shadow" is what made this entire offense prolific whether he got the ball or not.

That's true but there's a disruption to the flow constantly having to worry about whether Moss is happy or not. As I said, we may not have the talent but we will now find out without worrying about Moss sulking.

Understand, I wish he were still here but for all his amazing gifts he brought baggage to the offense too.

 

[Ron Sellers]

It's an issue when the team just traded away arguably its most talented football player.

This past Sunday 21 points were scored by special teams or defense, so one can't really point to that and say the offense is fine because Moss didn't get any catches. Just by being on the field, Moss changes the entire defense.

So which is it, what are you trying to say? The offense was great but will now sputter without Randy Moss? The offense was poor and will continue to sputter with Bill O'Brien? The offense in the 2nd half will revert to 2009 production and last week was a fluke? That the second half offense is not the issue, it's the offense as a whole?

Sorry, but it seems to me that on one side of your mouth you're saying the offense was great, but on the other you are saying the offense was horrible - and that was prior to the trade. I'm having trouble following where you're going with this, other than that you are predicting that we are doomed.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

That's true but there's a disruption to the flow constantly having to worry about whether Moss is happy or not. As I said, we may not have the talent but we will now find out without worrying about Moss sulking.

Understand, I wish he were still here but for all his amazing gifts he brought baggage to the offense too.

BF, you say this as if it's a bad thing to give Moss the ball, in order to keep him happy.

Moss should be the primary target each play. If he isn't then something needs to be done to ensure that he is.

Making Moss the focal point of an offense isn't a bad thing. Not knowing how to do so is however, and this is the problem we have with our doofus play caller.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

That's true but there's a disruption to the flow constantly having to worry about whether Moss is happy or not. As I said, we may not have the talent but we will now find out without worrying about Moss sulking.

Understand, I wish he were still here but for all his amazing gifts he brought baggage to the offense too.

Well, you could say the same thing about Wes Welker, that Brady locks in on him too much. It isn't that Welker is demanding the ball, it's that Brady has become complacent and locks in on 2 players.

It isn't clear that Moss was sulking because he wasn't getting balls. In the past with the Pats after nonproductive stats he has repeatedly said it's about winning and he has no problem not getting passes.

To me it's a big difference if he flipped out over the play calling and lack of adjustments, compared to complaining over not getting the ball. Based on his behavior here I'd say he was *not* complaining about not getting the ball, but rather that it was a 7-6 close ballgame and his coordinator seemed once again to have his head up his arse.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Sorry, but it seems to me that on one side of your mouth you're saying the offense was great, but on the other you are saying the offense was horrible

It's very simple. Simply based on the immense talent on this offense, they put up great stats and offensive rankings. A stupid monkey pushing buttons on a keyboard could call plays and the offensive players are usually so good they can mostly make it work (especially at the start of games). However, based on more damning multiple breakdowns of how the team performs from how it starts to how it produces as the game goes on, it suggests that offensive coaching and play calling is an issue.

 

[mgcolby]

It wasn't only on the road last season...

Fine, but that wasn't the point the OP was making in the post I responded too.

And I don't subscribe to the Patsfans.com favorite past time of bashing the OC. It is humerous to see people wish for Charlie to come back, given the fact that this board had me convinced that he was the worst OC in history, even after winning 3 SB's.

Not saying you were one of them, because I don't know. I just find it hard to bash a guy when he produced a top 5 scoring offense last season and is leading the league in scoring this season (ST's and Defensive TD's are noted).

The more I listen to Troy, Tedy, Rich Gannon, Mike Lombardi etc... I think this offense will be more dynamic and far less predictable. Tate needs to touch the ball more, especially in space. He won't command over the top help right away, but all it takes is for him to catch a few deep balls and he will start to draw it. I am not blind to what Moss meant to this offense, but I also think some people are taking what he meant to the offense to the extreme today.