BSM: Patriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

[SVN]

Boston Sports Media Watch Patriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

probably a fair assessment of the defense.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

Apparently, Bruce doesn't realize that the defense has been working together, in one way or another, for more than 6 months as opposed to just 3 weeks. It's not as if that's forever, or anything, but ignoring that makes his comment look worse than Breer's.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

Apparently, Bruce doesn't realize that the defense has been working together, in one way or another, for more than 6 months as opposed to just 3 weeks. It's not as if that's forever, or anything, but ignoring that makes his comment look worse than Breer's.

You just paraphrased Belichick early this season when asked about the team. He said something to the effect that they'd had over 50 practises, plenty for everyone involved to grasp the system.

Me, I'm a redhead - I don't do patience well.

 

[stinkypete]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

Very fair assessment, and surprisingly balanced and level-headed.

I'd go a step father and remind everyone how the 2003 Patriots gave up 31 to the anemic Bills, 20 to Spurrier's Redskins and 30 to the Titans in the first 5 weeks of the season. That defense became probably the most dominant unit the Patriots have ever fielded.

(Not to suggest that this team is going to start pitching shutouts any time soon...but things change over the course of an NFL season)

 

[Sicilian]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

Apparently, Bruce doesn't realize that the defense has been working together, in one way or another, for more than 6 months as opposed to just 3 weeks. It's not as if that's forever, or anything, but ignoring that makes his comment look worse than Breer's.

If it was only about gelling and understanding the system within a bubble, I would agree. But this is a young group of players, who also need to learn to play at NFL speed (mentally). For them, there's no substitute for game experience.

 

[Garbanza]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

...I 'dunno....

I understand they are young - I understand they are learning - but I have seen young guys step up and produce before. The problem is that they are TOO young and in TOO many position. Verteran leadership on the defensive side is truly lacking. I find this disappointing seeing that Wilfork can be pretty passionate when he wants to be. To this day I say that getting rid of Mike Vrable for a bag of peanuts was the dumbest thing BB and Co. has ever done.

 

[mcsully]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

I'm giong to have to agree with one of the posters from the article, Brian:

The more I watch other defenses around the league, the more I'm starting to believe that the 3-4 read-react defense that BB runs is simply obsolete and doesn't work within the framework of the new rules geared towards offense.

When I see Crennel, Nolan, Ryan, Philps go in and in year 1 makea significant impact on defense, I wonder why we can't get the same. 3 out of the 4 are pressure defenses and made overnight changes.. Ryan took the same personel from Mangini, who ran the same defense as us, and changed it to the #1 ranked defense.. Its scheme and we're lacking in it.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

It's clearly an issue of talent, not scheme.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

I'm giong to have to agree with one of the posters from the article, Brian:

The more I watch other defenses around the league, the more I'm starting to believe that the 3-4 read-react defense that BB runs is simply obsolete and doesn't work within the framework of the new rules geared towards offense.

When I see Crennel, Nolan, Ryan, Philps go in and in year 1 makea significant impact on defense, I wonder why we can't get the same. 3 out of the 4 are pressure defenses and made overnight changes.. Ryan took the same personel from Mangini, who ran the same defense as us, and changed it to the #1 ranked defense.. Its scheme and we're lacking in it.

1.) Ryan doesn't have the same personnel as Mangini, and Revis was still developing.

2.) Crennel runs a 2-gap system like Belichick.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

...I 'dunno....

I understand they are young - I understand they are learning - but I have seen young guys step up and produce before. The problem is that they are TOO young and in TOO many position. Verteran leadership on the defensive side is truly lacking. I find this disappointing seeing that Wilfork can be pretty passionate when he wants to be. To this day I say that getting rid of Mike Vrable for a bag of peanuts was the dumbest thing BB and Co. has ever done.

You can plug a young guy like the Pats did with Eugene Wilson at a position he never played before if you have veterans around him. Harrison and Law worked with Wilson a lot that season. The problem is that the Pats have about six first time starters and two or three of them are rookies.

It isn't all Belichick's fault though since two key veterans were injured and put on IR during the preseason. Bodden's loss was huge since he was consistent and the most seasoned veteran in the secondary. Warren was big although the d-line has held up better than the secondary so far. Those two would have done wonders to help make this youth movement transition.

I personally think this defense will be worlds better by November/December. Will it be good enough to get the Pats in the playoffs and compete for a Super Bowl? Who knows, but I see a lot of the problems with the defense being mental errors and not skills. Those can be corrected with experience.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

It's clearly an issue of talent, not scheme.

Jack

Are you being serious or mocking in your post?

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

It's clearly an issue of talent, not scheme.

And coaching, or pi$$ poor drafting skill, as well.

A boatload of talent has been added to this Pats team of late. In fact, the defensive side of the ball has monopolized the Pats early (first 3 round) draft board the last 4 years.

What's BB's saying ..... "if a player doesn't produce for me but has the skilll then I have failed him" Something to that effect!

 

[Sicilian]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

And coaching, or pi$$ poor drafting skill, as well.

A boatload of talent has been added to this Pats team of late. In fact, the defensive side of the ball has monopolized the Pats early (first 3 round) draft board the last 4 years.

What's BB's saying ..... "if a player doesn't produce for me but has the skilll then I have failed him" Something to that effect!

The quote I believe is, "If a player has talent and isn't successful, either he doesn't want to be successful or I have failed as a coach."

 

[Rob0729]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

I'm giong to have to agree with one of the posters from the article, Brian:

The more I watch other defenses around the league, the more I'm starting to believe that the 3-4 read-react defense that BB runs is simply obsolete and doesn't work within the framework of the new rules geared towards offense.

When I see Crennel, Nolan, Ryan, Philps go in and in year 1 makea significant impact on defense, I wonder why we can't get the same. 3 out of the 4 are pressure defenses and made overnight changes.. Ryan took the same personel from Mangini, who ran the same defense as us, and changed it to the #1 ranked defense.. Its scheme and we're lacking in it.

I don't know about that. Crennel isn't running an one gap, penetrating defense. He is running a two gap, read and react defense. The Dolphins are running a similiar defense as the Pats and were getting praise about their defense until last Sunday night.

As for the Jets defense, I think it had little to do with the one gap vs. the two gap. I think it has to do with personnel, better coaching, and schedule. Rex Ryan is one of the best defensive minds in the league. Mangini was only a DC one year and reports had it that Belichick stripped him of his play calling abilities that year.

Personally, I see no evidence that the scheme is the problem. The Pats no longer have Harrison, Bruschi, Law, McGinnest, etc. Some of these young guys could turn into those guys, but they need to grow. I think it has to do with personnel over scheme.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

Jack

Are you being serious or mocking in your post?

I'm being serious.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

It's clearly an issue of talent, not scheme.

I agree it is talent, but I don't know if it is bad talent or just inexperienced talent that needs to develop. I think it is more the latter than the former.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

And coaching, or pi$$ poor drafting skill, as well.

A boatload of talent has been added to this Pats team of late. In fact, the defensive side of the ball has monopolized the Pats early (first 3 round) draft board the last 4 years.

What's BB's saying ..... "if a player doesn't produce for me but has the skilll then I have failed him" Something to that effect!

That's the thing, though. And perhaps I was unclear.

The skill and talent is clearly there. Whether it can be nurtured and coached to its full potential remains to be seen. But this defense has been completely overhauled, and the youth movement has been compounded further by the loss of two of the few remaining vets in Bodden and Warren.

There very well may be talent deficiencies in spots, but I don't think the defense we're seeing now (i.e. a not very good one) is the product of an outdated scheme, lack of talent, or poor coaching. The impression that I get from watching the games and reading analyses is simply that this is a very young defense with minimal chemistry and a lot of guys who are thrust into the spotlight who perhaps haven't got a terribly firm grasp on the system and responsibilities as of yet.

And frankly, these struggles won't bother me so much if they are able to come together as I expect and hope. I can see our defense being like football's version of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays (if everything goes as planned, of course). I'm well aware that this is a "glass half full" perspective, but I find it's a lot more enjoyable to have this perspective... even if there's a little cognitive dissonance involved at times.

Finally, thank our lord and savior BB drafted McCourty.

 

[SVN]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

problem is our personnel not the scheme totally. our dline and lb's used to the strength. right now..too many unknowns. Look at Dline specifically. just vince is the most dependable player. G warren+ron brace -not exactly seymour ,ty warren .
Lb's - TBC,ninkovich,crable..not really starter material. i dont think TBC can be any better.
sadly our average secondary is made to bear the brunt of the abuse because the front 7 isnt strong enough.

we can blame our drafting+free agency moves not sure about scheme. every scheme needs good players.

 

[DW Toys]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

I'm giong to have to agree with one of the posters from the article, Brian:

The more I watch other defenses around the league, the more I'm starting to believe that the 3-4 read-react defense that BB runs is simply obsolete and doesn't work within the framework of the new rules geared towards offense.

When I see Crennel, Nolan, Ryan, Philps go in and in year 1 makea significant impact on defense, I wonder why we can't get the same. 3 out of the 4 are pressure defenses and made overnight changes.. Ryan took the same personel from Mangini, who ran the same defense as us, and changed it to the #1 ranked defense.. Its scheme and we're lacking in it.

Excellent post Cousin! 100% correct.
DW Toys

 

[JackBauer]

Re: BSMatriots Grade Well On One Side, Patience Needed On Other

Excellent post Cousin! 100% correct.
DW Toys

If it's an "excellent" post, and "100% correct," how do you account for the Chiefs?