Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years...

[Kontradiction]

Would you like to see a bigger, beefier O-Line (like the Cowboys or the Giants) installed around Vollmer as the LT? This is just a hypothetical question that has nothing to do with the Jets game, and I'd like to see where the answers lie. It's no secret that this offensive line is smaller and more fleet of foot. The reason for this is because Dante and BB like their linemen to be more mobile due to the screen game and other packages in which we need the linemen to be able to block further downfield. However, the run blocking has become suspect especially within the last couple of years with Belichick even doing so much as pointing to the O-Line's blocking inconsistencies when asked about Maroney's troubles.

So I ask you: would you mind seeing a move to a bigger, nastier, more smashmouth offensive line when things start becoming reshuffled? One that takes pleasure in knocking the snot out of their man and loves to run block? Or do you think that the system is fine as it stands and it's just the personnel that we have in place now that should be blamed for the run blocking issues?

 

[mgteich]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

The day Tom Brady leaves AND we decide that we don't want to be a pass-first team, then we should change our line from one oriented toward pass-blocking to one that is oriented toward run blocking. We would then also carry a fullback on the roster.
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Our line is not a set of top-notch run blockers, but the running game has been above average, rated 13th, 8th and 12th in rushing yards over the past 3 years. We rated 5th, 4th and 7th in rushing TD's. Yards per attempt slipped to 22 last year, after we were 14th and 8th the past two years.

So, my answer would be that I expect Belichick to continue what has worked for them for a decade. I believe that adding Grankowski and Crumpler will help the running game.

Of course, we might consider acquiring better backs than Green-Ellis and Woodhead to back up the oldest vets in the league. If one wants improvement in our running game, I would suggest that one starts with securing better talent at running abck.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

The day Tom Brady leaves AND we decide that we don't want to be a pass-first team, then we should change our line from one oriented toward pass-blocking to one that is oriented toward run blocking. We would then also carry a fullback on the roster.
=============================================

Our line is not a set of top-notch run blockers, but the running game has been above average, rated 13th, 8th and 12th in rushing yards over the past 3 years. We rated 5th, 4th and 7th in rushing TD's. Yards per attempt slipped to 22 last year, after we were 14th and 8th the past two years.

So, my answer would be that I expect Belichick to continue what has worked for them for a decade.

Bigger offensive lines open up holes and also protect the quarterback as well. However, on the flip side to that, Denver always had a smaller offensive line (like our's) under Shanahan that usually churned out 1,000 yard rushers as well.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

The interesting thing for me in this thread is that we are a zone blocking team ... not a power blocking team. But we have a line full of guys that are somewhere in the middle between both. Technically we should have bigger blockers to be a zone blocking team. Isn't this why Koppen gets the snot knocked out of him week after week?

Correct me on this if I'm missing something here.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

As I recall Shanny's secret was illegal blocks.

Bigger offensive lines open up holes and also protect the quarterback as well. However, on the flip side to that, Denver always had a smaller offensive line (like our's) under Shanahan that usually churned out 1,000 yard rushers as well.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

Box: where are you?

I am of two minds about this. On the one hand, it is a passing league, so emulating great passing teams like the Saints (HUGE up front) makes sense. The Colts seem to be drafting larger Guards and Tackles at this point as well. On the other hand, maybe going in another direction (not copying the others) makes more sense. I mean, if everyone is doing similar things then defenses will continue to figure out how to stop it (and get better at it).

 

[Sciz]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

Right now, I support whatever keeps Tom Brady upright. If that's smaller guys that are slightly worse at run-blocking, so be it.

 

[MustaphaM0nd]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

The Saints have a colossal line and the best screen game in the league, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

Box: where are you?

What was the question?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

Bigger offensive lines open up holes and also protect the quarterback as well. However, on the flip side to that, Denver always had a smaller offensive line (like our's) under Shanahan that usually churned out 1,000 yard rushers as well.

In the past I'd say stick with smaller to preserve the ability to screen as much as the Pats do. Realistically, though, it seems like it is possible to have the best of both worlds, although it might require the Patriots to place more of a premium on acquiring elite athletes than they have in the recent past. I wouldn't complain if the Pats moved in that direction, but I wouldn't say that I'm clamoring for it, either.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

What was the question?

We can haz big O-Line?

Go for size and power, or speed and athleticism?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

NE has the O-line BB and Scar like for the offense they run. We need to realize;
-- BB (Head Coach 2000-Present),
-- Dante Scarnecchia (O-line Coach 2000-Present),
-- and Ivan Fears (Wide Receiver Coach 1999-2001, Running Backs Coach 2002-Present);
have been together for BB's entire tenure running the offense Bill brought with him. Today's run game centers around those three coaches.

NE is going away from the expanded zone blocking scheme they started using after drafting Maroney, and are going back to more of a power/man scheme. They are using more lead blocking with the OL and TEs this season.

BB & Dante like former TE's at OT. Light, Vollmer, LeVoir, Ojinnaka, and Maneri are former TEs.

They want guys used to moving in space, Tight End is just one avenue. Mankins (championship calf roper), Kaczur (hockey), Neal (world class wrestler), Koppen (track and basketball), Wendell (wrestler), Ohrnberger (lacrosse).

Instead of targeting 340 lb. bulldozers, they look for guys whom they can build up into the 305-315 range.
Light - 305
Kaczur - 315
Vollmer - 315
LeVoir - 310
Maneri - 290
Ojinnaka - 295
Mankins - 310
Connolly - 313
Neal - 305
Wendell - 290 up from 275.
Ohrnberger - 300 up from 291.

I expect no change in O-line philosophy.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

It depends on what our objective is. If it is to improve the run game, instead of thinking about changing the OL, a permanent full-time fullback would help. He could help open up holes in the run game without having to change philosophies.

A few people have already mentioned Shanahan's Denver offense didn't have the biggest guys, but they used a fullback. Ditto the Jets when they led the league in rushing last season.

I always liked Patrick Pass. Really solid pro, not spectacular in any way, but did a lot of different things for us. They're usually not drafted so you can pick them up as UFAs, they don't make much money, but make a big difference in the running game.

 

[PatsChamp88]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

Bigger offensive lines open up holes and also protect the quarterback as well. However, on the flip side to that, Denver always had a smaller offensive line (like our's) under Shanahan that usually churned out 1,000 yard rushers as well.

They also ran a power blocking scheme I thought too? Now Josh has installed a zone blocking scheme..

 

[alphilip77]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

They also ran a power blocking scheme I thought too? Now Josh has installed a zone blocking scheme..

Actually, Denver ran a ZBS when Shanahan was their coach. Josh wanted to go to a power running team, so that's why he got rid of guys like Ben Hamilton and Casey Wiegmann (too small).

 

[The Brandon Five]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

Instead of targeting 340 lb. bulldozers, they look for guys whom they can build up into the 305-315 range.
...
I expect no change in O-line philosophy.

If teams are going the other way do you think that positions us better to face the speed rushers? In other words, if they are loaded with bulldozers up front will they have enough agility to handle the Freeney's of the world?

 

[SuperPatsFan]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

With a good RB, it's possible to build a running game around agile linemen by using pulls, traps, counters and the like. Not every run has to be a power 30 through the A gap.

JMHO.

 

[woolster22]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

Who cares about run blocking when you run the ball 5 times in the second half? don't recall to many screens either but I was making dinner and watching during the second half too. And to the "handling Freeneys of the world" question, its not like Matt Light does that good of a job handling the Freeneys of the world either. Hell, I remember him getting beat pretty badly by Vernon Bust-on last week...

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

When Corey Dillon had the most yards per game played in 2004 (if he didn't miss one game probably would have led the league in yards), the Pats still had a smaller o-line. The Jets were the #1 running team last year and other than Damien Woody, they didn't have any big fat o-linemen and most of their guys were about the same size as the Pats' o-linemen. You don't need a huge o-line to run.

 

[aluminum seats]

Re: Simple question: When the O-Line starts to get re-shuffled in the next few years.

When Corey Dillon had the most yards per game played in 2004 (if he didn't miss one game probably would have led the league in yards), the Pats still had a smaller o-line. The Jets were the #1 running team last year and other than Damien Woody, they didn't have any big fat o-linemen and most of their guys were about the same size as the Pats' o-linemen. You don't need a huge o-line to run.

Yeah, this. I would vote for constructing an offensive line filled with offensive linemen who play well.