Stop blaming the coordinators

[mgteich]

I presume that you are part of the 15% of posters here who think that our second half adjustments are just fine.

=============
All rosters and all players have pluses and minuses. We have a sufficiently solid roster be favored in our division and have one of the top 3 or 4 offenses in the league. Our defense allowed fewer points that 27 teams last year, and supposedly we have better and more experienced talent this year, as well as the focus of Coach Belichick on the defense.

OFFENSE
If you have liked the playcalling and offensive game plans for the past two years, you certainly are entitlted to that opinion. If you think that our offensive coaches have been superb at adjustments after the half and in playingcalling in the second halves of game, you are entitled to that opinion. Your whining about the quality of our offensive talent is appalling. We have among the best talent in the league. But if it floats your boat to think that the we have been losing in the second half because of lack of offensive talent, than so be it. IMHO, if we don't have the coaches to mold the talent that we have into a winning unit, then we need better coaches. It is really that simple.

DEFENSE
It is what it is, a young unit that has lost two of its leaders for the year: Bodden and Warren. I don't expect this unit to perform as well as last year. However, by midseason, it could be close to last year's group if the coaches are able to do their job of improving the production from the kids.

Yes, we need another runstuffer in the front seven. Yes, we need another corner. However, it for belichick and the coaches to work with the talent that we have, the talent that he has personally chosen to mold into greatness.

Bleichick and Caserio chose the talent. The coaches have coached them up. If you think that the coahes and coordinators should not be expected to coach at a level of the jets coaching staff, so be it.

BOTTOM LINE
Being outplayed happens occasionally. Being outcoached by the jets is embarassing.

Defense:

Gerard Warren - liability against the run
Wilfork - All world
Wright - liability against the run

Ninkovich - Liability against the run, not much better against the pass
Spikes - rookie having rookie issues
Guyton - major liability against the run
Mayo - quality player
TBC - liability against the run

McCourty - Rookie succeptible to double moves
Butler - Second year DB with a confidence problem an overreliance on his talent
Meriweather - Veteran who's struggled enough to lose his starting job
Chung - Second year player who's a liability against the pass
Sanders - solid, but nothing more


Offense:

Moss - Top tier talent who's lost about 2 steps
Welker - Top tier talent who's coming back from ACL surgery and took a shot to the head
Tate - Second year man who got almost no playing time as a rookie
Edelman - sub for Welker and oft-injured himself

Crumpler - Mauler, not a pass catcher at this stage of his career
Gronkowski/Hernandez - Rookies who still have things to learn

Light - Solid Left tackle
Connolly - Backup forced to start
Koppen - Oft-injured player who seems to have declined a bit due to those injuries
Neal - Oft-injured player (he missed time yesterday, as a matter of fact)
Vollmer - Second year player still making mistakes

Taylor - Talented, but aging and oft-injured.
Morris - Aging and oft-injured, he doubles as the fullback
BJGE - JAG

Brady - All world, but needs to break a bad habit he picked up last year


Far too many people are laying the blame on the coordinators. Well, players were getting open in the passing game, and the running game wasn't able to open holes. The defense is loaded with players who, for one reason or another, aren't really ready to be starting on top defenses.


It's a personnel/talent/experience/execution problem for the most part. Blaming the coordinators is a cop out.

 

[mr3putt]

Point 1
Where were the slants and screens in the second half?
Long bombs to Moss are high risk and difficult to complete.
Not to mention Brady missing those alot lately

Point 2
Light still gets beat by speed rushers ( hello Mr Taylor)
Mayo was late on every running play

Execution sucked ...no doubt
Is it execution that has caused lousy 2nd half production against good teams for over a year?
If it's all on execution then maybe BB has assembled a bunch of "No can Do's"

Either way it's an indictment of the system as a whole and the staff in particular.

IMHO

 

[mgteich]

If the reality is that if we have fine coaches and coordinators, and they have been doing a fine job in the second half oever last 18 games, then I guess our offensive talent is much weaker that I would have thought.

Point 1
Where were the slants and screens in the second half?
Long bombs to Moss are high risk and difficult to complete.
Not to mention Brady missing those alot lately

Point 2
Light still gets beat by speed rushers ( hello Mr Taylor)
Mayo was late on every running play

Execution sucked ...no doubt
Is it execution that has caused lousy 2nd half production against good teams for over a year?
If it's all on execution then maybe BB has assembled a bunch of "No can Do's"

Either way it's an indictment of the system as a whole and the staff in particular.

IMHO

 

[D-Money]

If u asked me, i think they got a little to ****y and overconfident and the jets looked like a desperate hungry team!!!In terms of the poster critizing me about BB, well body language says alot!!

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

On defense, I agree with you. With that personnel you cannot blame any coach for their struggles, in fact struggles should be expected.

Offensively though you are not going to convince me the personnel is not sufficient. Unless you are just trying to say Brady had a really really poor game, which I can see. But then I don't know why you had to list out the lineup of our offense and try to nitpick there. Take a look at the rosters of offenses around the league, ours is about as good as it gets.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Sorry, but you're wrong here. Bill O'Brien is a chimp

 

[TheBaronPatriot]

What adjustment are you claiming the Jets made that the Patriots didn't counter?

Brady said in his presser that the Jets played more safety coverage in the second half. The Pats did not adjust and instead kept attacking as if was a pressure scheme taking deep shots.

Another lack of adjustment was providing over the top help for our young safeties. The game called for stopping the run. Edwards already beat Butler once so some over the top help would have been nice the second time around.

Another issue I have is with confidence. When the players have confidence in each other and the plan things go well. When the plan stops working players start improvising.

That's where coaching comes into play. The coaches collect information from the field about what the players are seeing and adjust accordingly. When things don't work and there is no player to coach communication confidence is lot and players freelance and get out of synch.

A good coach will recognize when this is happening and adjust the plan on the fly. My issue is not with the plan but rather the lack of adjustments made by the coaches. When the players recognize the lack of adjustments or bad adjustments they lose confidence in the coaching staff. I think this happened a little bit yesterday.

 

[Ring 6]

If u asked me, i think they got a little to ****y and overconfident and the jets looked like a desperate hungry team!!!In terms of the poster critizing me about BB, well body language says alot!!

Body language says nothing unless you interpret it properly and your intepretation is ridiculous.

 

[Spiral]

I think that adjustments are not a halftime thing--they're a series-to-series thing.

Do you think that O'Brien would be better if he were upstairs vs. on the sidelines?

 

[mgcolby]

Point 1
Where were the slants and screens in the second half?
Long bombs to Moss are high risk and difficult to complete.
Not to mention Brady missing those alot lately

Point 2
Light still gets beat by speed rushers ( hello Mr Taylor)
Mayo was late on every running play

Execution sucked ...no doubt
Is it execution that has caused lousy 2nd half production against good teams for over a year?
If it's all on execution then maybe BB has assembled a bunch of "No can Do's"

Either way it's an indictment of the system as a whole and the staff in particular.

IMHO

I can see both sides of the argument and I think the truth is somewhere in the middle a combination of both.

But to quibble the Jets didn't blitz much in the 2nd half so why would you run a screen? I see that on here a lot and it makes me wonder if people understand the purpose of running a screen is.

 

[D-Money]

Are u kidding me?U going by those superbowls and its been awhile since BB has won something!!!BB is a great coach but u know sometimes the game can pass u by.His staff got clearly outcoached in that second half and u need to stop waving ur pom poms!

 

[mgcolby]

You really can't be serious attempting to compare little league players with NFL players and coaches, are you? I hope not.

You really can't be serious that you can't see the point being made can you? :bricks:

 

[Deus Irae]

I understand they happened in the second half, but the first half/second half issue has been going on for some time now. So yeah, each week we could list all the second half screw-ups. But assuming the players aren't being replaced w/their evil twins, the logical answer is coaching. When the Pats were winning Super Bowls, it was taken as an article of faith that their strong second half showings were reflective of BB's genius. It seems silly to suggest now it's all on the players.

Well, Moss dropped a touchdown in the endzone. Was that because the coaches didn't adjust?

The special teams got a delay of game penalty that negated a field goal. Gostkowski then missed the subsequent kick. Was that due to a failure of the playcaller to adapt?

Arrington committed fair catch interference. Was that a failure of the coaches to make an adjustment?



Those were screwups from the first half.

 

[Ring 6]

If the reality is that if we have fine coaches and coordinators, and they have been doing a fine job in the second half oever last 18 games, then I guess our offensive talent is much weaker that I would have thought.

why does everyone say last 18 games like we are 0-18?

 

[IcyPatriot]

Can you come up with a better criticism than trying to push the idea that a coach who has been in the NFL 35 years, and ha 5 rings, is overwhelmed by what happens on gameday?

Definitely ..... :yeahthat: .................

 

[IcyPatriot]

You really can't be serious attempting to compare little league players with NFL players and coaches, are you? I hope not.

anyone who has coached knows well what he said.

I have coached soccer for almost 20 years.

I have coached undefeated seasons and winless seasons ... I'm the same guy the players were different.

 

[mgteich]

Looking for improvement only when you lose is the path to mediocracy.

As I have said many times, we won the division last year and I expect us to repeat.

That doesn't mean that there should be no criticism.

why does everyone say last 18 games like we are 0-18?

 

[Ring 6]

Brady said in his presser that the Jets played more safety coverage in the second half. The Pats did not adjust and instead kept attacking as if was a pressure scheme taking deep shots.

I didnt hear Brady say that, but he did throw at the corners a lot more in the second half, so maybe that is the adjustment you are looking for.

Another lack of adjustment was providing over the top help for our young safeties. The game called for stopping the run. Edwards already beat Butler once so some over the top help would have been nice the second time around.

What? There was only one play 'over the top' and that was the 3rd and 1 play action to Keller. I dont think a pass was completed to a WR more than 10 yards beyond the los, and I know none were 15 yards beyond.
Most of what they completed was in front of the secondary.

Another issue I have is with confidence. When the players have confidence in each other and the plan things go well. When the plan stops working players start improvising.

That's where coaching comes into play. The coaches collect information from the field about what the players are seeing and adjust accordingly. When things don't work and there is no player to coach communication confidence is lot and players freelance and get out of synch.

I dont understand the point here. It sounds like you are saying when you win, you are confident so go win.

A good coach will recognize when this is happening and adjust the plan on the fly. My issue is not with the plan but rather the lack of adjustments made by the coaches. When the players recognize the lack of adjustments or bad adjustments they lose confidence in the coaching staff. I think this happened a little bit yesterday.

I'll ask you what I asked earlier today. What is the evidence that there were no adjustments? I saw adjustments.
I saw Brady throwing at the corners, evidently countering the Jets rolling up on the short stuff.I saw Brady taking good shots deep at Moss, based on the same criteria he has used since 2007. If Moss makes the catches he usually does, it would have been a good offensive half. Is an adjustment that creates Randy Moss one on one numerous times a success, or a failure because Moss doesnt go and get the ball?
Defensively I saw personell groupings change based on what the Jets were doing. They were not successful, but they were adjustments that put players in position to make plays.

 

[mgteich]

I think that we would be better off if O'brien coached for the jets.

I think that adjustments are not a halftime thing--they're a series-to-series thing.

Do you think that O'Brien would be better if he were upstairs vs. on the sidelines?

 

[Deus Irae]

I presume that you are part of the 15% of posters here who think that our second half adjustments are just fine.

The percentage is irrelevant. It's pretty easy to figure out who's clueless regardless of what they answer on a particular poll. People who consistently blame the playcalling year after year, regardless of changes at the coordinator level are people not worth listening to when it comes to evaluating wins and losses.

All rosters and all players have pluses and minuses. We have a sufficiently solid roster be favored in our division and have one of the top 3 or 4 offenses in the league. Our defense allowed fewer points that 27 teams last year, and supposedly we have better and more experienced talent this year, as well as the focus of Coach Belichick on the defense.

Who has said that this team has better and more experienced talent this year? That's obviously not true. This team has clearly gotten younger and less experienced, particularly on defense.

OFFENSE
If you have liked the playcalling and offensive game plans for the past two years, you certainly are entitlted to that opinion. If you think that our offensive coaches have been superb at adjustments after the half and in playingcalling in the second halves of game, you are entitled to that opinion. Your whining about the quality of our offensive talent is appalling. We have among the best talent in the league. But if it floats your boat to think that the we have been losing in the second half because of lack of offensive talent, than so be it. IMHO, if we don't have the coaches to mold the talent that we have into a winning unit, then we need better coaches. It is really that simple.

1.) I've not "whined" about the quality of the team's offensive talent. I've noted it for what it is. If you think that's whining, it's time for you to reassess your interpretation of the word. Moss is an elite WR. Brady is the best QB in the business. Welker is the best slot WR in the game. Guess what? Other players aren't at that level, and even the best make mistakes.

2.) This team has gone young over the past two seasons, and with the move to youth, you get mistakes. It's not surprising that the team's amazing record with second half and 4th quarter leads took a significant hit last season, given that the team lost Bruschi, Harrison, Seymour and Seau (for all intents and purposes). It's not surprising that such losses and struggles continue this season. It's what happens with young, inexperienced teams.

When people here stop pretending there's a magic bullet and start understanding that there are numerous factors which have nothing at all to do with playcalling, the board will be better served. People have griped about Weis and Crennel. People have griped about McDaniels and Pees. Now people are griping about O'Brien and the unnamed D.C.. There's a pattern here, and it's not a pattern of lousy coordinators.

DEFENSE
It is what it is, a young unit that has lost two of its leaders for the year: Bodden and Warren. I don't expect this unit to perform as well as last year. However, by midseason, it could be close to last year's group if the coaches are able to do their job of improving the production from the kids.

Yes, we need another runstuffer in the front seven. Yes, we need another corner. However, it for belichick and the coaches to work with the talent that we have, the talent that he has personally chosen to mold into greatness.

To paraphrase something BB said on WEEI just a little while ago, the team doesn't have any defensive plays that are designed to give up 39 yards.

Bleichick and Caserio chose the talent. The coaches have coached them up. If you think that the coahes and coordinators should not be expected to coach at a level of the jets coaching staff, so be it.

BOTTOM LINE
Being outplayed happens occasionally. Being outcoached by the jets is embarassing.

No one, including yourself, has been able to explain this mythical outcoaching. No team calls a perfect game, but that's not what we're talking here.


Or is it?