Stop blaming the coordinators

[Deus Irae]

Defense:

Gerard Warren - liability against the run
Wilfork - All world
Wright - liability against the run

Ninkovich - Liability against the run, not much better against the pass
Spikes - rookie having rookie issues
Guyton - major liability against the run
Mayo - quality player
TBC - liability against the run

McCourty - Rookie succeptible to double moves
Butler - Second year DB with a confidence problem an overreliance on his talent
Meriweather - Veteran who's struggled enough to lose his starting job
Chung - Second year player who's a liability against the pass
Sanders - solid, but nothing more


Offense:

Moss - Top tier talent who's lost about 2 steps
Welker - Top tier talent who's coming back from ACL surgery and took a shot to the head
Tate - Second year man who got almost no playing time as a rookie
Edelman - sub for Welker and oft-injured himself

Crumpler - Mauler, not a pass catcher at this stage of his career
Gronkowski/Hernandez - Rookies who still have things to learn

Light - Solid Left tackle
Connolly - Backup forced to start
Koppen - Oft-injured player who seems to have declined a bit due to those injuries
Neal - Oft-injured player (he missed time yesterday, as a matter of fact)
Vollmer - Second year player still making mistakes

Taylor - Talented, but aging and oft-injured.
Morris - Aging and oft-injured, he doubles as the fullback
BJGE - JAG

Brady - All world, but needs to break a bad habit he picked up last year


Far too many people are laying the blame on the coordinators. Well, players were getting open in the passing game, and the running game wasn't able to open holes. The defense is loaded with players who, for one reason or another, aren't really ready to be starting on top defenses.


It's a personnel/talent/experience/execution problem for the most part. Blaming the coordinators is a cop out.

 

[51Hits]

Thanks Deus, because I'm tired of hearing the same crap over and over about O'Brien.

I love how we scream and freak out about the game plain sayin it wont work because our OC's an idiot. Meanwhile, our QB is overthrowing every deep pass to Moss, he's trying to get the ball in Randy's hands all day everyday. Do people think O'Brien only wants Welker and Randy to run routs? Other people are out there too ya know.

Brien can draw a play and where it's supposed to go but he's not going to make it happen himself. I know it's maddening to hear simple ****, but this team has a HUGE execution problem on offense.

OL - needs to stop their timely second half collapse. I can always count on a big sack on Brady on the road.

 

[aluminum seats]

Hmmm, I dunno. While there may be quibbles w/a few of those player assessments, even conceding they're all correct for the sake of argument, there is a pronounced 1st half/2nd half trend that's been going on for more than a year. That would suggest coaching.

 

[D-Money]

Well then the players stunk in the second half!!!I thought the offense waS THE main culprit in the second half.The defense gets u a stop and ur up 14-10 and driving and Brady makes a horrific throw!!!!I thought Brady and this offense was pathetic in the second half!!!!!Usually the OC will take the hit!!Imagine if this team had a mind like Mike Martz.U think they wouldnt make more plays?

 

[IcyPatriot]

Good thread ... like I said in a thread yesterday players win and players lose games. A good orginization can make a team better. good tight coaching makes a team better. good coaching can help mask weaknesses if everyone plays in unison ... but it's the players that win and lose games 99.9% of the time. Anyone who has ever coached even youth football understands this.

Belichick's lecture on false steps and playing speed is a great example.

 

[D-Money]

The defense wasnt pretty but they gave the offense opportunities to try and make a game out of it.The offense should know that the defense is not all that good.

 

[IcyPatriot]

The defense wasnt pretty but they gave the offense opportunities to try and make a game out of it.The offense should know that the defense is not all that good.

Well even if they know it what difference would that make?

Green Bay's defense knows Favres an old man ... did that make them play better defense?

I'm sure brady and the veterans know the defense is young. all they can do is guide them through example in preparation for game day. Butler had the deer in the healights look yesterday. Only more practice and more preparation will make that look go away.

 

[Deus Irae]

Hmmm, I dunno. While there may be quibbles w/a few of those player assessments, even conceding they're all correct for the sake of argument, there is a pronounced 1st half/2nd half trend that's been going on for more than a year. That would suggest coaching.

It would suggest any number of things.



It wasn't coaching when the defense blew plays that they knew were coming (verified by Wilfork).

It wasn't coaching when the QB was targeting a covered Moss rather than other receivers who were open (verified by Curran, Ordway, DeOssie and Smerlas).

It wasn't coaching when Brady overthrew Moss and Cromartie made the pick at the 3 yard line.

It wasn't coaching when Brady underthrew Gronkowski on a pass that would have led to a first down.

It wasn't coaching when Brady threw to a covered Moss, who tipped the ball up for Poole to intercept.

It wasn't coaching when Butler grabbed the receiver when he had position on the sidelines, and ended up getting flagged for PI.

It wasn't coaching when Butler had position on the throw to the endzone but field to jump for the ball.

It wasn't coaching when Light was beaten by Taylor for the strip sack that ended the game.

 

[aluminum seats]

It would suggest any number of things.

Such as?

The misplays you cite don't address the issue of 1st half/2nd half.

 

[upstater1]

I'd take this roster any day of the week!!!

It's a great roster.

The coordinators are not infallible, not matter what you all think.

How many times do you need to see Brady plaintively look toward the sideline asking to get the call.

O'Brien is not prepared to call the next play.

Which says a lot.

 

[D-Money]

How about the coaches adjusting to the defense?I thought BB had a dear in the headlights look along with Butler.

 

[reflexblue]

I'm not buying this when it comes to the Offense, ever since Obrien has been the OC this has been a recurring theme

 

[JackBauer]

Personally I think it's a little bit of both.

 

[BradyManny]

It would suggest any number of things.



It wasn't coaching when the defense blew plays that they knew were coming (verified by Wilfork).

It wasn't coaching when the QB was targeting a covered Moss rather than other receivers who were open (verified by Curran, Ordway, DeOssie and Smerlas).

It wasn't coaching when Brady overthrew Moss and Cromartie made the pick at the 3 yard line.

It wasn't coaching when Brady underthrew Gronkowski on a pass that would have led to a first down.

It wasn't coaching when Brady threw to a covered Moss, who tipped the ball up for Poole to intercept.

It wasn't coaching when Butler grabbed the receiver when he had position on the sidelines, and ended up getting flagged for PI.

It wasn't coaching when Butler had position on the throw to the endzone but field to jump for the ball.

It wasn't coaching when Light was beaten by Taylor for the strip sack that ended the game.

I generally agree.

However, execution and coaching are linked. It is impossible to break that link. Any one of those things you referenced is affected by coaching since the players were in the positions they were due to coaching.

Ultimately, if Brady plays better, we win the game, its that simple. Brady has to play better than he did. That is a fact, and that statement is true in a vacuum, outside of coaching and play-calling.

However, you do have numerous former Patriots now (Bruschi, Brown) saying they didn't see the Patriots adjust to what the Jets did in the 2nd half (which, I'm presuming is to keep more in coverage). You have Brady talking about how they assumed their game plan in the first half would continue to succeed in the second half, thereby admitting they made no change to their offensive strategy. Perhaps had they executed better, it'd have been a moot point. But the fact is, the Jets made an adjustment which made life harder on the Patriots offense. The Patriots offered no counter, and instead, executed poorly.

So, like most things, I think its both.

 

[Deus Irae]

Such as?

The misplays you cite don't address the issue of 1st half/2nd half.

The misplays I cited all happened in the second half. Obviously, that would go towards 1st half/2nd half.

 

[Deus Irae]

I generally agree.

However, execution and coaching are linked. It is impossible to break that link. Any one of those things you referenced is affected by coaching since the players were in the positions they were due to coaching.

Ultimately, if Brady plays better, we win the game, its that simple. Brady has to play better than he did. That is a fact, and that statement is true in a vacuum, outside of coaching and play-calling.

However, you do have numerous former Patriots now (Bruschi, Brown) saying they didn't see the Patriots adjust to what the Jets did in the 2nd half (which, I'm presuming is to keep more in coverage). You have Brady talking about how they assumed their game plan in the first half would continue to succeed in the second half, thereby admitting they made no change to their offensive strategy. Perhaps had they executed better, it'd have been a moot point. But the fact is, the Jets made an adjustment which made life harder on the Patriots offense. The Patriots offered no counter, and instead, executed poorly.

So, like most things, I think its both.

What adjustment are you claiming the Jets made that the Patriots didn't counter?

 

[aluminum seats]

The misplays I cited all happened in the second half. Obviously, that would go towards 1st half/2nd half.

I understand they happened in the second half, but the first half/second half issue has been going on for some time now. So yeah, each week we could list all the second half screw-ups. But assuming the players aren't being replaced w/their evil twins, the logical answer is coaching. When the Pats were winning Super Bowls, it was taken as an article of faith that their strong second half showings were reflective of BB's genius. It seems silly to suggest now it's all on the players.

 

[Ring 6]

How about the coaches adjusting to the defense?I thought BB had a dear in the headlights look along with Butler.

Can you come up with a better criticism than trying to push the idea that a coach who has been in the NFL 35 years, and ha 5 rings, is overwhelmed by what happens on gameday?

 

[fair catch fryar]

Personally I think it's a little bit of both.

My sentiments as well. In fact this thread reminds of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIMHvs1aWeM&feature=fvsr

 

[mgcolby]

Good thread ... like I said in a thread yesterday players win and players lose games. A good orginization can make a team better. good tight coaching makes a team better. good coaching can help mask weaknesses if everyone plays in unison ... but it's the players that win and lose games 99.9% of the time. Anyone who has ever coached even youth football understands this.

Belichick's lecture on false steps and playing speed is a great example.

Exactly my little league baseball team in 2009 was 2-10. My little league team in 2010 was 9-3, different players same coach.