The Ints to Moss

[Ring 6]

I just rewatched the game, and among other things I was watching for the Brady leaning on Moss claim.
What I saw was, after thinking Brady played poorly while watching live, particularly on the Ints, that IMO both of the Ints were on Moss.
On the first one when Brady let the ball go, Moss was one on one vs Cromartie at about the 35, about dead even, maybe a step behind. Moss should beat Cromartie to that ball every time. I think Moss thought a fly on 3rd and 13 wouldn't come to him, and wasn't ready to accelerate like he normally does (like he did on the TD) when the ball went up. If he accelerated on that route like on the TD route, it was another TD, or pi at the worst.
On the second Int, flat out it should have been caught. No need to one handed tip the ball, he should have caught it.
I don't to start the Moss flaming but on those 2 plays, he failed.
That went a long way toward the failure of the offense.
On the 3rd deep ball, on 3rd and 7, Moss isn't in the screen until the ball comes down, so I can't tell if he should have made up the extra step it would have taken to get to the ball, because he had the man beat, or if Brady overthrew.
Frankly, Brady made the right decisions based upon what Moss has done with the ball in the air up until now, but if thats what Moss is going to do going forward, Brady needs to reassess what "Moss open" means.

Secondly, while I did not see a huge focus on Moss, I didnt really see any passes to him that were bad decisions, the areas of the field Brady was throwing to changed.
Up until the first Int almost every pass was defended by a LB, or sometimes a safety with only a handful thrown at a corner.
From that point forward, Bradys throws were at a corner 6 times, at a safety 3 and the only throws covered by LBs were the 2 in a row (screen and swing pass) to Morris. I dont know if the Jets changed something to create that, but out of 12 passes, more were down the field than in all of the first half, and nowhere near all were at Moss.

 

[upstater1]

The first INT was as good as a punt, and with every other player covered, not a bad decision at all.

Randy slowed out of his break on the second INT, but I could see equally valid arguments both ways on that one since he hadn't beaten his man.

What bugs me is all the runs that put us in 3rd and long. That's what kills you. The defense loads up on DBs and you have nowhere to throw to, and when Moss is one on one, and no one else is open, that looks particularly inviting.

That doesn't mean Brady gets a pass. He missed that gimme to Gronkowski that could have been a huge gainer.

But I too am not participating in the slam Brady/Moss/Butler fest that is going on.

I prefer to slam O'Brien.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

The first INT was as good as a punt, and with every other player covered, not a bad decision at all.

Throwing an INT is never a good idea, never got why people argue this. And BTW, didn't the Jets end up scoring a TD on that drive?

 

[upstater1]

Throwing an INT is never a good idea, never got why people argue this. And BTW, didn't the Jets end up scoring a TD on that drive?

First, you're twisting my words. I didn't say it was intentional.
I said it's as good as a punt. Heck, it's better than a punt.

The net result was excellent when you're weighing it against throwing it out of bounds or an incomplete. How could you possibly argue that?

The Jets scored a TD? The drive started at the 2! Please what kind of ****amamie argument is that?

 

[Ring 6]

The first INT was as good as a punt, and with every other player covered, not a bad decision at all.

Randy slowed out of his break on the second INT, but I could see equally valid arguments both ways on that one since he hadn't beaten his man.

What bugs me is all the runs that put us in 3rd and long. That's what kills you. The defense loads up on DBs and you have nowhere to throw to, and when Moss is one on one, and no one else is open, that looks particularly inviting.

That doesn't mean Brady gets a pass. He missed that gimme to Gronkowski that could have been a huge gainer.

But I too am not participating in the slam Brady/Moss/Butler fest that is going on.

I prefer to slam O'Brien.

But the first Int was not a prayer because no one was open.
When Brady threw the ball, which came down at the 3, Moss was running about even, maybe a step behind Cromartie at the 35. I guarantee that when Brady let go he saw TD written all over. How Moss failed to accelerate to the ball like he normally does is puzzling but thats what happened. If he ran to that ball just like he ran to the TD or the one he dropped at the back of the end zone, its a TD.
The second one simply should have been caught.

 

[Ring 6]

First, you're twisting my words. I didn't say it was intentional.
I said it's as good as a punt. Heck, it's better than a punt.

The net result was excellent when you're weighing it against throwing it out of bounds or an incomplete. How could you possibly argue that?

The Jets scored a TD? The drive started at the 2! Please what kind of ****amamie argument is that?

But the net result should have been Patriot TD and kicking off with a bigger lead.

 

[Ring 6]

The first INT was as good as a punt, and with every other player covered, not a bad decision at all.

Randy slowed out of his break on the second INT, but I could see equally valid arguments both ways on that one since he hadn't beaten his man.

What bugs me is all the runs that put us in 3rd and long. That's what kills you. The defense loads up on DBs and you have nowhere to throw to, and when Moss is one on one, and no one else is open, that looks particularly inviting.

That doesn't mean Brady gets a pass. He missed that gimme to Gronkowski that could have been a huge gainer.

But I too am not participating in the slam Brady/Moss/Butler fest that is going on.

I prefer to slam O'Brien.

And its not slamming anyone its looking at the play and assessing what happened. If Moss didnt go hard after the ball, its not a slam to say so.

 

[emoney_33]

Throwing an INT is never a good idea, never got why people argue this. And BTW, didn't the Jets end up scoring a TD on that drive?

The options were throw it away and punt or heave it up to moss and risk an interception in/near the endzone. Do you get why people argue this now?

 

[everlong]

From a pure play calling aspect once Cromartie was moved to Moss I don't know why they didn't adjust and move Moss to the slot. Cromartie can cover the vertical routes but once you make him defend the lateral routes he becomes less effective. Soften him up with some 15 yard outs and some slants then double move and let him blow by the safety. They kept Moss out wide and had him running all vertical routes.

 

[Bonzo]

The first INT was as good as a punt, and with every other player covered, not a bad decision at all.

Eh, I don't disagree that it wasn't a horrible decision, but punts generally don't happen on 3rd down.

But the first Int was not a prayer because no one was open.
When Brady threw the ball, which came down at the 3, Moss was running about even, maybe a step behind Cromartie at the 35. I guarantee that when Brady let go he saw TD written all over. How Moss failed to accelerate to the ball like he normally does is puzzling but thats what happened. If he ran to that ball just like he ran to the TD or the one he dropped at the back of the end zone, its a TD.
The second one simply should have been caught.

AJ, why do you think the Pats seemed to have better success connecting on the deep ball to Moss (even if covered) in 2007? Has his athleticism eroded just enough to bring him back to earth? Just to remind folks exactly what that used to look like . . .

YouTube - Randy Moss 2007 Season Highlights/Tribute

 

[emoney_33]

But the first Int was not a prayer because no one was open.
When Brady threw the ball, which came down at the 3, Moss was running about even, maybe a step behind Cromartie at the 35. I guarantee that when Brady let go he saw TD written all over. How Moss failed to accelerate to the ball like he normally does is puzzling but thats what happened. If he ran to that ball just like he ran to the TD or the one he dropped at the back of the end zone, its a TD.
The second one simply should have been caught.

I didn't tape the game so I'll have to find some clips to watch but from what I remember on that play, Brady was looking Welker and Welker made the wrong read. No one was open and Brady threw it to Moss in single coverage. Cromartie was playing deep ball all the way and was always in better position. Moss did his best to accelerate to catch up but never could.

It's possible that Moss didn't expect the ball and wasn't running at full speed but it's also possible that he expected a pass his way would be "under" thrown considering Cromartie's position.

The 2nd INT I remember Moss having to reach around a defender just to get a hand on the ball and then getting tackled while trying to make a spectacular catch. I didn't get the sense that he just unnecessarily tapped the ball up. Another near-INT play was one where Brady throw it directly at Cromartie and Moss had to play defense.

I didn't record the game though so I can't go back and look at any of this. All in all the Jets defense outplayed the Patriots offense in the 2nd half and I really want to know the number of 2nd half snaps Welker had. I didn't see him or Taylor after the 1st series of the 2nd half.

 

[emoney_33]

Eh, I don't disagree that it wasn't a horrible decision, but punts generally don't happen on 3rd down.

3rd & 13 with no one open... throw it away and punt on 4th or try for a TD with the risk being "as good as" a punt. It's not like the play was designed as "hey it's 3rd down let's just try to chuck it to a covered Moss". It was a decision made by Brady after everyone else was covered.

 

[Ring 6]

Eh, I don't disagree that it wasn't a horrible decision, but punts generally don't happen on 3rd down.




AJ, why do you think the Pats seemed to have better success connecting on the deep ball to Moss (even if covered) in 2007? Has his athleticism eroded just enough to bring him back to earth? Just to remind folks exactly what that used to look like . . .

YouTube - Randy Moss 2007 Season Highlights/Tribute

Well its been 2 games and he has caught one long TD, so I dont know if its a drastic change yet.
Frankly on the first Int, I dont think Moss expected the ball to come to him, so he wasnt prepared to kick it into gear and outrun Cromartie. He certainly could have. I'm notsaying he is lazy, I'm saying Brady saw it as the same thing as the TD throw, and Moss didn't have the extra gear in him on that play.

 

[Teenuh]

The first INT was as good as a punt, and with every other player covered, not a bad decision at all.

Randy slowed out of his break on the second INT, but I could see equally valid arguments both ways on that one since he hadn't beaten his man.

What bugs me is all the runs that put us in 3rd and long. That's what kills you. The defense loads up on DBs and you have nowhere to throw to, and when Moss is one on one, and no one else is open, that looks particularly inviting.

That doesn't mean Brady gets a pass. He missed that gimme to Gronkowski that could have been a huge gainer.

But I too am not participating in the slam Brady/Moss/Butler fest that is going on.

I prefer to slam O'Brien.

I completely agree. I don't understand why we try to run so much when we have average (at best) running backs. The Pats win with their passing and we need to forget some of those runs and throw short passes instead.

 

[Ring 6]

I didn't tape the game so I'll have to find some clips to watch but from what I remember on that play, Brady was looking Welker and Welker made the wrong read. No one was open and Brady threw it to Moss in single coverage. Cromartie was playing deep ball all the way and was always in better position. Moss did his best to accelerate to catch up but never could.

It's possible that Moss didn't expect the ball and wasn't running at full speed but it's also possible that he expected a pass his way would be "under" thrown considering Cromartie's position.

The 2nd INT I remember Moss having to reach around a defender just to get a hand on the ball and then getting tackled while trying to make a spectacular catch. I didn't get the sense that he just unnecessarily tapped the ball up. Another near-INT play was one where Brady throw it directly at Cromartie and Moss had to play defense.

I didn't record the game though so I can't go back and look at any of this. All in all the Jets defense outplayed the Patriots offense in the 2nd half and I really want to know the number of 2nd half snaps Welker had. I didn't see him or Taylor after the 1st series of the 2nd half.

On the first Int, you need to look at where Moss is when the ball is thrown. Brady still had no one anywhere near him. All of the other routes were not over. It definitely was not a prayer. Brady chose to throw it because Moss was one on one and at worst a step behind the corner. He blows away any corner 99% of the time...if he exects the ball...in that situation.
On the 2nd he got one hand on the ball, and IMO could have gone up stron and caught it with 2 hands.

 

[everlong]

I didn't tape the game

NFL Network will replay the game for sure. It was a tight game for 3.5 quarters and the NY fans and Patriot haters will watch it for sure.

 

[upstater1]

Eh, I don't disagree that it wasn't a horrible decision, but punts generally don't happen on 3rd down.

You do realize that after an incomplete on a 3rd down, the next down is 4th, right?

 

[Ring 6]

You do realize that after an incomplete on a 3rd down, the next down is 4th, right?

Its irrelevant because Brady wsn't making a blind heave, he saw Moss one on one no worse than a step behind the corner at the 35 yard line and expected a TD not an Int.
NOT throwing that ball, based upon Moss' history would be a bad decision.
After that play however, Brady may want to reconsider what it means to expect Moss to outrun a corner consistently.

 

[emoney_33]

Its irrelevant because Brady wsn't making a blind heave, he saw Moss one on one no worse than a step behind the corner at the 35 yard line and expected a TD not an Int.
NOT throwing that ball, based upon Moss' history would be a bad decision.
After that play however, Brady may want to reconsider what it means to expect Moss to outrun a corner consistently.

They highlighted this play and Welker's route during the game, Wes made the wrong read and sat in double coverage at which point Brady decided to go to Moss. He wanted Welker, he "settled" for Moss.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Too much analysis on these interceptions. Brady's fault.

Cromartie is the type of player who often bites and makes stupid plays. He's liable to let up huge gains. At the same time, on both of these passes Moss was far from an easy target. When Cromartie actually has position, you don't throw at him. He's 6-2 and as athletic as they come. He's fast and has great jumping ability. Why you challenge him when the receiver is not clearly open is the million dollar question. There's a reason the Jets wanted this guy, and Brady showed exactly why he can be good, without exposing his liabilities. He's one the few corners in the NFL who can physically matchup with Moss. The passes were very impatient and very low risk-reward.