Trading up for talent

[Uncle Rico]

Since this was a constant theme of sport radio leading up to this week -- the Pats and their propensity for trading down instead of keeping picks or trading up -- I thought I'd revisit a 2009 Draft Day trade, courtesy the NY Times:

In a trade with the Cleveland Browns, the Jets gave up three players who were probably going to be spare parts, the 17th pick over all and their second-round pick this year to move up to the fifth spot to take Southern California quarterback Mark Sanchez. It’s debatable whether the new Browns coach, Eric Mangini, hurt the Jets again — or finally helped them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/sports/football/26draft.html?_r=1&ref=football

More:

For two years in a row, the Jets have made the daring decision to get a franchise quarterback, although Sanchez, part of the biggest draft-day trade in the team’s history, will cause delight or despair for far longer than last year’s Brett Favre dalliance did.

Sanchez was part of a quarterback class considered one of the weakest in years, but he was one of the three quarterbacks selected in the first round. Matthew Stafford was selected first over all by Detroit, and Josh Freeman was chosen by Tampa Bay with the 17th pick.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Since this was a constant theme of sport radio leading up to this week -- the Pats and their propensity for trading down instead of keeping picks or trading up -- I thought I'd revisit a 2009 Draft Day trade, courtesy the NY Times:



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/sports/football/26draft.html?_r=1&ref=football

More:

When you trade up, you have no chance of players falling to you. You also have less picks when you trade up, giving you less chances at getting hits. This does not mean that one should never trade up, just that when you do, it better be for someone pretty special. I think this idea is reflected with the Pats. They don't trade up often, but when they do, it's for players like Mayo.

 

[Calciumee]

Deja Vu???

 

[Rob0729]

For all the hype for the Jets' strategy of trading up or taking high draft picks, how often has it really worked? Twice? Three times? I think Revis, Harris, and Mangold are excellent picks, but most of the rest are overrated.

Ferguson is not worthy of the fourth overall pick. Gholston is definitely not worth a seventh overall pick. Sanchez will probably never come close to be a franchise QB. Shonn Greene is still a two game wonder until he proves otherwise. Their entire draft this year other than a fourth round fulllback may be disapointments or busts (Wilson has the potential to be good, but Ducasse and McKnight look to be lost causes already).

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

When you trade up, you have no chance of players falling to you. You also have less picks when you trade up, giving you less chances at getting hits. This does not mean that one should never trade up, just that when you do, it better be for someone pretty special. I think this idea is reflected with the Pats. They don't trade up often, but when they do, it's for players like Mayo.

Patriots traded down for Mayo. We traded up for Brace.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

For all the hype for the Jets' strategy of trading up or taking high draft picks, how often has it really worked? Twice? Three times? I think Revis, Harris, and Mangold are excellent picks, but most of the rest are overrated.

Ferguson is not worthy of the fourth overall pick. Gholston is definitely not worth a seventh overall pick. Sanchez will probably never come close to be a franchise QB. Shonn Greene is still a two game wonder until he proves otherwise. Their entire draft this year other than a fourth round fulllback may be disapointments or busts (Wilson has the potential to be good, but Ducasse and McKnight look to be lost causes already).

And the 17th pick (Jets original one), which then the Browns traded to TB was used to select Josh Freeman who when all is said and done may and likely will have a better career than Sanchez. Just watching him versus the Pats last year, he was obviously a rookie but he showed progression and even so far this year, catching a bit of their game on Sunday, considering the lack of talent around him, he's on the right track....

 

[Uncle Rico]

And the 17th pick (Jets original one), which then the Browns traded to TB was used to select Josh Freeman who when all is said and done may and likely will have a better career than Sanchez. Just watching him versus the Pats last year, he was obviously a rookie but he showed progression and even so far this year, catching a bit of their game on Sunday, considering the lack of talent around him, he's on the right track....

That stood out to me for the same reason. I haven't kept up on Freeman, but based on that game last year I'd think he might have won that game last night.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Patriots traded down for Mayo. We traded up for Brace.

Ooops.

 

[patchick]

When you trade up, you have no chance of players falling to you. You also have less picks when you trade up, giving you less chances at getting hits. This does not mean that one should never trade up, just that when you do, it better be for someone pretty special.

:yeahthat: It's not necessarily right or wrong, just very, very risky. You'd better have total confidence in the players. Consider that in the past 2 drafts, the Patriots have made 8 picks in the top 2 rounds, the Jets 3, so those 3 (Wilson, Ducasse, Sanchez) better be darned good -- not just contributors, but impact players.

FWIW...I think Wilson probably will be darned good, eventually. But the Ryan Jets were a dicey landing place for a guy who straddled the line between confident and over-****y. As for Ducasse, despite my sentimental attachment to UMass, he was NOT on my draft board: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...28-draft-day-3-thread-page22.html#post1802944 And then there's Sanchez. I really can't fault a team for going all-in at the chance of a franchize QB. But ouch.

Meanwhile, early results suggest that the Pats went an incredible 8 for 8 on their picks -- I believe 7 of them started last night, with the sole exception being Cunningham who was coming off an injury! No matter how well you draft, there is no way to get 7 starting-caliber players by drafting 3 guys.

 

[BlueThunder]

:yeahthat: It's not necessarily right or wrong, just very, very risky. You'd better have total confidence in the players. Consider that in the past 2 drafts, the Patriots have made 8 picks in the top 2 rounds, the Jets 3, so those 3 (Wilson, Ducasse, Sanchez) better be darned good -- not just contributors, but impact players.

FWIW...I think Wilson probably will be darned good, eventually. But the Ryan Jets were a dicey landing place for a guy who straddled the line between confident and over-****y. As for Ducasse, despite my sentimental attachment to UMass, he was NOT on my draft board: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...28-draft-day-3-thread-page22.html#post1802944 And then there's Sanchez. I really can't fault a team for going all-in at the chance of a franchize QB. But ouch.

Meanwhile, early results suggest that the Pats went an incredible 8 for 8 on their picks -- I believe 7 of them started last night, with the sole exception being Cunningham who was coming off an injury! No matter how well you draft, there is no way to get 7 starting-caliber players by drafting 3 guys.

TWO THUMBS UP for the above post !! :rocker:

 

[bucky]

Patriots traded down for Mayo. We traded up for Brace.

Since Brace went 40 and Butler 41, you would have to argue that the trade-up was for Butler, not Brace.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

They don't trade up often, but when they do, it's for players like Mayo.

Ironically, they got Mayo by trading out of 2007, and then trading down in 2008.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Since Brace went 40 and Butler 41, you would have to argue that the trade-up was for Butler, not Brace.

Well, clearly they wanted both players, so you could argue that they traded for half of Butler and half of Brace.

 

[condon84]

Did you guys see Clay Matthews vs the Eagles? That dude was the best player on the field when the Packers had their defense on versus the Eagles offense.

Stats for the game:

2 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 7 tackles, 1 pass defense

He looked like the Ultimate Warrior out there.

 

[BTTA]

:No matter how well you draft, there is no way to get 7 starting-caliber players by drafting 3 guys.

This may appear to be irrefutable logic, but I bet Rex could do it.

 

[sbpatfan]

Did you guys see Clay Matthews vs the Eagles? That dude was the best player on the field when the Packers had their defense on versus the Eagles offense.

Stats for the game:

2 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 7 tackles, 1 pass defense

He looked like the Ultimate Warrior out there.

Brandon Tate, Darius Butler, Rob Gronkowski, Julian Edelman > Clay Matthews

 

[Uncle Rico]

I think the main thing is that ANY pick is a risk, and any pick (or UDFA) can be a star.

 

[mosi]

Yup, and the other USC guy on the Bengals was not bad either. The USC LB crew seems pretty good, while their QBs suck.

 

[DarrylS]

:yeahthat: It's not necessarily right or wrong, just very, very risky. You'd better have total confidence in the players. Consider that in the past 2 drafts, the Patriots have made 8 picks in the top 2 rounds, the Jets 3, so those 3 (Wilson, Ducasse, Sanchez) better be darned good -- not just contributors, but impact players.

FWIW...I think Wilson probably will be darned good, eventually. But the Ryan Jets were a dicey landing place for a guy who straddled the line between confident and over-****y. As for Ducasse, despite my sentimental attachment to UMass, he was NOT on my draft board: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...28-draft-day-3-thread-page22.html#post1802944 And then there's Sanchez. I really can't fault a team for going all-in at the chance of a franchize QB. But ouch.

Meanwhile, early results suggest that the Pats went an incredible 8 for 8 on their picks -- I believe 7 of them started last night, with the sole exception being Cunningham who was coming off an injury! No matter how well you draft, there is no way to get 7 starting-caliber players by drafting 3 guys.

Well said, prefer our method of team building, rather than just relying on a top ten pick... those picks are sexy, but if you draft a bust you are stuck.. Leinart, Russell, Gholston all come to mind.

We have about 50% of our roster as 1 and 2nd year players.. including UDFA's...

 

[RayClay]

I don't think trading up and down a few spots qualifies for the type of trade ups the Jesters do. We get qualified, affordable players this way, bargains, if you will.

If the Pats ever go for a big trade up it could be next year, if a great DE is available, unless Oakland cooperates and drops a high pick in their lap.

I don't think NE believes any other position is reliably worth the risk and salary. Better to have three shots at the second round than one lottery ticket.

Womder if they would have traded up for Suh, given the ammunition and less needs this yearn