Players show union solidarity by... decertifying?

[Wolfpack]

The Saints players voted on decertification today and, as expected, it passed unanimously. It's a very strange dichotomy. The players are showing their solidarity and mutual support by seriously considering decertification. If the union decertifies, they claim they can't be locked out.

Anything that lessens the chances of a lockout is great, but this creates some very strange problems. Imagine playing Madden 2012 with no named players. Would there be a draft with no certification? I think that would create more anti-trust problems.

It's going to be a looooooooooooooong year.

 

[Ring 6]

The Saints players voted on decertification today and, as expected, it passed unanimously. It's a very strange dichotomy. The players are showing their solidarity and mutual support by seriously considering decertification. If the union decertifies, they claim they can't be locked out.

Anything that lessens the chances of a lockout is great, but this creates some very strange problems. Imagine playing Madden 2012 with no named players. Would there be a draft with no certification? I think that would create more anti-trust problems.

It's going to be a looooooooooooooong year.

I dont know but there would be no CBA and everything that goes along with it.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Hasn't Mo said that were they to decertify, the last good faith owners' offer would rule and the issues would then be resolved in a long multi-year leagal battle with appeals of rulings galore? Chaos!

One thing businesses hate is chaos and ambiguity q.v. the stalemate in hiring as tax rates and Universal Health Care's unknown costs impact paralyze business hiring decisions in the economy. The owners will be motivated to avoid both chaos and ambiguity. The STRONG TV ratings of the Farvefest serve to remind the billionaires (on paper, but NOT cash) of what's at stake in pissing in the pool.

 

[Wolfpack]

I dont know but there would be no CBA and everything that goes along with it.

That's why I think they couldn't hold a draft anymore. It's essentially a major anti-trust violation to tell a college guy "you may only talk to and negotiate with team X and no one else." But you can violate many anti-trust laws in collective bargaining if both sides agree.

I would actually consider this a very interesting story to follow if it weren't so frightening that the league could suffer some serious damage with all this going on.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

Decertification is an empty threat.

Were decertification to occur, there would be a new owner-friendly players' association formed relatively promptly.

JMHO.

 

[Pats726]

That's why I think they couldn't hold a draft anymore. It's essentially a major anti-trust violation to tell a college guy "you may only talk to and negotiate with team X and no one else." But you can violate many anti-trust laws in collective bargaining if both sides agree.

I would actually consider this a very interesting story to follow if it weren't so frightening that the league could suffer some serious damage with all this going on.

I wonder what would happen....which is why I am not sure where I am on this...IF it gets to a new CBA and REAL football in 11...GREAT!! If it mucks it all up...which is possible...then no. I am not sure many KNOW the way this will play out..and the problem is it is VERY fragile..amd NOTH sides know iy...so it's a game of chicken and BOTh could lose..actually EVERONE loses...and I am not sure the pieces go back together easily. Yes they may play,,but are we talking REAL players...scabs?? (Which I ddi not give a damn about...) Too many ifs.....not sure what and how this will be worked out.

 

[celticboy04]

Greetings,
So basically what they are saying is they are not the cause of a lockout if one occurs? That if one happens it is all on the owners? Honestly, my biggest concern is not who get's what. I just want to see them on the field next year. Multimillionaires vs Multimillionaires, this should be interesting.

Peace,
Celticboy04

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Someone posted a good article explaining all this about 2-3 weeks ago, my search skills suck so I can find it, i think Deus Irae posted it.
Deus do you still have that article boomarked?

 

[IcyPatriot]

We have seen this all before ... us older fans. the owners own the infrastructure ... all day long. The players have little to stand on. In the end the players may get a few extra percentage points and a lot of harm will be done. it's much easier for the owners to start a new league than it is for the players to keep a league of their own going.

these strikes and threats of are so anal ... such a waste of time.

 

[Pats726]

We have seen this all before ... us older fans. the owners own the infrastructure ... all day long. The players have little to stand on. In the end the players may get a few extra percentage points and a lot of harm will be done. it's much easier for the owners to start a new league than it is for the players to keep a league of their own going.

these strikes and threats of are so anal ... such a waste of time.

And the threats of a lock out?? ARE they a anal??? DON'T be a rumpswab for the owners....
They are both in the same boat...and if one side goes down ALL lose....in fact..the way it's going ALL will lose...I do wish to see the longer post from a few weeks ago.....as well. I think most fans want the CBA to return in a fair way to all involved. The owners CRY they are losing money or so it seems...and IF that is anywhere near the truth..they need to SHOW THAT to the NFLPA...To me...THAT will help mightily in resolving the situation and seeing what can be done. The NFLPA is NOT going to give back a billion dollars to owners without understanding what is going on with the teams in the league. The owners by the way CAN NOT have any league at all without players...good players...and please don't at all call the scab players "good"...It's an INSULT to compare at all.
What really stinks is the black cloud hanging over this season...lockout...no football..strike..dertification..IF all these idiots...players owners do not watch it... the golden goose will be dead and the league will lose the fanbase...and PLEASE don't say football will always be there There are many die hard baseball fans that said that years ago and watch a league fall totally in popularity...IT can happen and the GREEDY sides need to get it done..or pay a MUCH LARGER price..

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Someone posted a good article explaining all this about 2-3 weeks ago, my search skills suck so I can find it, i think Deus Irae posted it.
Deus do you still have that article boomarked?

Here you go.

Wm. David Cornwell, Sr.: There Will Not Be a Lockout in the NFL

If there is a decertification to pre empt a lockout the owners can either go along with that and get to run the league basically by their rules until the various disagreements get shaken out in court proceedings that could take years to litigate and appeal, or not wanting to get involved in a court ordered future they could still lock players out. If they don't then things would pretty much go on as usual (draft, FA, etc.) only the rules would be those contained in the last best offer the owners made to the union before it decertified. There could be proposals in that last offer for multiple tags, 22 games, 18% rollback in shared revenue...so there would still be interim losers and winners on both sides. Again, the owners may not want to risk some court ruling they have to let them be FA sooner or they can't tag anyone (although that was tested early on and withstood court challenges under a CBA)... There are plusses and minuses to getting it done right at the cost of what would certainly be a short term lockout since players have no stomach for one today and Maurice knows that...vs. merely doing things the owners way and risking a court does (or in the players case doesn't) ultimately force some rules in the players favor.

 

[spacecrime]

You need to look at who has the power.

And it ain't the players.

There is labor and there is management. Laborers labor and management manages. When working conditions are intolerable, then labor has power of public opinion behind them. Who can feel sorry for a man who makes $5 million a year but wants $6 million a year.

Withoug football, the owners can invest their money elsewhere. Without football, the players can coach high school gym or sell cars, unless they are someof the few smarrt ones who actually earned a useful degree.

For that matter, the owners can start a new league, the NNFL, the New NFL.

You may not like it, and it might not be right, but money talks and bs walks, and the owners have money.

They will do fine. For one thing, their ability to earn money does stop around age 35.

And the threats of a lock out?? ARE they a anal??? DON'T be a rumpswab for the owners....
They are both in the same boat...and if one side goes down ALL lose....in fact..the way it's going ALL will lose...I do wish to see the longer post from a few weeks ago.....as well. I think most fans want the CBA to return in a fair way to all involved. The owners CRY they are losing money or so it seems...and IF that is anywhere near the truth..they need to SHOW THAT to the NFLPA...To me...THAT will help mightily in resolving the situation and seeing what can be done. The NFLPA is NOT going to give back a billion dollars to owners without understanding what is going on with the teams in the league. The owners by the way CAN NOT have any league at all without players...good players...and please don't at all call the scab players "good"...It's an INSULT to compare at all.
What really stinks is the black cloud hanging over this season...lockout...no football..strike..dertification..IF all these idiots...players owners do not watch it... the golden goose will be dead and the league will lose the fanbase...and PLEASE don't say football will always be there There are many die hard baseball fans that said that years ago and watch a league fall totally in popularity...IT can happen and the GREEDY sides need to get it done..or pay a MUCH LARGER price..

 

[Patstopia]

Sounds like Chaos to me!

If they screw up football because both side can't get rich enough, I will be pissed!!! Football is the one truly competitive team sport left. Please don't make it into baseball.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Here you go.

Wm. David Cornwell, Sr.: There Will Not Be a Lockout in the NFL

thanks Molewisrocks

 

[Wolfpack]

Here you go.

Wm. David Cornwell, Sr.: There Will Not Be a Lockout in the NFL

Interesting article, but I am not sure I am buying everything he's selling. Ignoring the fact that a quick check shows he is essentially just a players' lawyer/agent writing for the Huffington Post (Huffington Post? ), his entire thesis is depending on the assumption that the owners will have no problem losing their antitrust exemption based purely on the simple notion that it will take a couple years to litigate it. If the owners ever fully lost their antitrust exemption, it could devastate the way they are allowed to negotiate TV deals. Imagine a system where it was every team for themselves with regards to TV. That would completely do away the league as we know it, turning it into MLB.

Given that owners are in this for the long haul (much moreso than the players) I'm not so sure it's wise to adopt a strategy that they will gladly take a few years worth of moneygrabbing, and then just accept whatever new rules and restrictions the courts force upon them.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Interesting article, but I am not sure I am buying everything he's selling. Ignoring the fact that a quick check shows he is essentially just a players' lawyer/agent writing for the Huffington Post (Huffington Post? ), his entire thesis is depending on the assumption that the owners will have no problem losing their antitrust exemption based purely on the simple notion that it will take a couple years to litigate it.

Given that owners are in this for the long haul (much moreso than the players) I'm not so sure it's wise to adopt a strategy that they will gladly take a few years worth of moneygrabbing, and then just accept whatever new rules and restrictions the courts force upon them.

Im not buying it either but it explains why the players would decertify.

 

[Wolfpack]

Im not buying it either but it explains why the players would decertify.

Agreed. But my fear is that decertification will cause short term gains - and long term pains. I don't want a lockout but I would rather lose a couple weeks of football next year than turn the league into a system of complete chaos and legal limbo for years to come.

I am also afraid of a "nuclear option" I have heard discussed. Things like the players saying "hey we don't get paid to play playoff games, so let's not bother doing that." (Yes, I know they receive some money for the playoffs so I don't mean they literally don't get any).

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Agreed. But my fear is that decertification will cause short term gains - and long term pains. I don't want a lockout but I would rather lose a couple weeks of football next year than turn the league into a system of complete chaos and legal limbo for years to come.

And that may well be what the owners decide, too. As for Cornwell, he was the guy who raised a ruckus about the nomination process just before the union voted on Upshaw's replacement. He convinced some of the players to get his name on the ballot as an alternative to another former player in Troy Vincent or a Washington lawyer with no history of involvement in the league representing the players on the critical eve of a new CBA or potential work stoppage.

 

[Pats726]

Mo thanks for the article.....I tend to think that since this is uncharted ground that all rosy scenarios...maybe all scenarios are more wishful thinking than what will happen...On the other hand given all the money on the table and connected to it, I can't help thinking that somehow it will all work out. Too much money to lose AND in this economy...I think there's much to lose by chaos and disaster...so cooler heads will prevail...NOT that there aren't any..but this almost feels like a slow disaster waiting to happen. It's in slow motion and NO ONE is doing anything...or so it seems that there is no immediacy in getting this fixed. NOT sure what the fans can do although I wish there was something so it could get solved. One side issue is the economic down turn in NFL cities of related businesses if there is a lock out. Millions lost...but like the uncapped year that most all feared...it hasn't been all that bad. Could it be OK in the future no matter what?? OR is that more all NOT wanting it to be a short term bad situation?

 

[Gwedd]

I fully believe that most of the finger pointing and "end of days" scenarios being bandied about are just so much space filler. I cannot imagine the NFL and the Players deciding to allow petulance to destroy the best sports package ever developed.

The NFL brand has seen an amazing rise in value, and both sides have gained remarkable financial and personal status as the fanbase has grown and expanded, especially these past 10 years.

It's the fanbase that has allowed the NFL to get the huge TV deals and marketing of official NFL products. It's the fanbase that has allowed the players to gain product endorsement deals, and thus add value to their own names and salary outside of the normal money stream.

If either, or both, sides alienate the fanbase, then it's lights out for the current valuation and both sides will be scraping for someway to support their investments, because although the TV rights are strong, the loss of merchandise and endorsement dollars will hurt, and hurt bad.

I've watched a local union destroy the local goodwill and also hurt their own member's finances through a prolonged strike. It was a stupid strike, and fed by the petulance of the union leadership. They kept at the strike, intimidating their own members, and in the end, the best they could negotiate was not enough to cover the financial losses incurred by their members while out of work. In fact, a good portion of them found work elsewhere, and the Union also lost income through a smaller dues-paying base. The latter of course won't happen with the NFL, but some players may well opt to try for the CFL as a paycheck.