Value? I got your VALUE right here

[screamingPatsFan]

So you keep us waiting for hours on draft day with anticipation even though we all know that draft pick is getting traded or swapped for 2 2nd round picks.. yea Value. The next day, the so-called football experts rave about how BB is a genius. Part of me wants to believe that and his record from part years supports his case. (how long is this part record card is going to last? does it have an expiration date? yea he has SB rings but how long can you use that to make up for his draft woes?)

So now you got all your "value"d 2nd and 3rd round draft picks... quantity over quality (when is that ever a good thing??)
The best analogy I could come up with is someone who's been given $25k to buy a new car. He browses the lot, tests drives a couple but then says "nah Im just going to buy to used cars for $12.5k. I will end up with two cars instead of one and odds are that one of them will last and give me good production"
Both cars sh%t the bed and you end up with nothing (I wanted to use another expression but I dont want to get banned)

I think what happened this weekend with the roster cuts is a blessing... maybe they ll realize "HEY what we are doing here just aint working"
because the philosophy that they have been preaching for the past 3-4 drafts got a pretty good smack.

McKenzie, Burgess.... three draft picks (including 2 3rd rounders) gone bye bye!!!!
what if they just drafted where they were... you could probably have Rey Maualuga, Clay Mathews as your LBs... that is just a sample. Im sure I could find more players they missed out on by trading down.

Yea I know they've hit on some players(edelman, volmer..etc) and they've stayed pretty competitive but we are not talking about the freaking Detriot lions here... we r talking about a super bowl contender team. Staying competitive isnt good enough (maybe they r trying to change our perception) but keep in mind you still have one of the best quarterbacks on that team and I dont think they are giving him a good chance to win another ring.

They've missed on some draft picks so bad, look where the defense is right now. Dont tell me they are going to get better throughout the year... the talent just isnt there. Look at the LB and DE's depth chart... actually you will find something positive... VALUE... and tons of it but last time I checked Value cant sack the quarterback and cant cover wide receivers.

Value... please!!!

 

[Ron Sellers]

Please enlighten me with what you would have done differently.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

So would you rather have the JEST draft, where they have a fourth-round pick—just one of four—just idling on the bench all season?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Every team misses on draft picks and most years we were picking at the bottom of the rounds so that would increase the odds of missing on a player, plus we had very good players that they would have to supplant.
They have also traded up in drafts to get a guy they want, they dont always trade down for more picks, or value as you like to say, thats just a misconception Felger likes to pass along.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Wait, gorillas can type now??

Pro-tip: your analogy would hold up a little bit if even new cars had a short-term failure rate of 50+%

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

Please enlighten me with what you would have done differently.

He said he would have gotten the sure earlier round players rather than trade back and get 2 s#it players.

 

[patsfan13]

In the last 2 drafts we have added the nucleus for the next 5 years. Will ALL the picks hit? Of course not. We took 24 players + UDFA's not all will pan out or even if they do we won't have room for all of them.


When you look at the players taken a number of them could become 'stars'.

Spikes, Chung, McCourty, Cunningham, Brace, Tate, Edleman, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Vollmer, Mesko, all positioned to be starters/major contributors, this is a remarkable haul in 2 years. Oh Yeah Hoyer who is the best backup we have had during BB's tenure

 

[Patspsycho]

So you keep us waiting for hours on draft day with anticipation even though we all know that draft pick is getting traded or swapped for 2 2nd round picks.. yea Value. The next day, the so-called football experts rave about how BB is a genius. Part of me wants to believe that and his record from part years supports his case. (how long is this part record card is going to last? does it have an expiration date? yea he has SB rings but how long can you use that to make up for his draft woes?)

So now you got all your "value"d 2nd and 3rd round draft picks... quantity over quality (when is that ever a good thing??)
The best analogy I could come up with is someone who's been given $25k to buy a new car. He browses the lot, tests drives a couple but then says "nah Im just going to buy to used cars for $12.5k. I will end up with two cars instead of one and odds are that one of them will last and give me good production"
Both cars sh%t the bed and you end up with nothing (I wanted to use another expression but I dont want to get banned)

I think what happened this weekend with the roster cuts is a blessing... maybe they ll realize "HEY what we are doing here just aint working"
because the philosophy that they have been preaching for the past 3-4 drafts got a pretty good smack.

McKenzie, Burgess.... three draft picks (including 2 3rd rounders) gone bye bye!!!!
what if they just drafted where they were... you could probably have Rey Maualuga, Clay Mathews as your LBs... that is just a sample. Im sure I could find more players they missed out on by trading down.

Yea I know they've hit on some players(edelman, volmer..etc) and they've stayed pretty competitive but we are not talking about the freaking Detriot lions here... we r talking about a super bowl contender team. Staying competitive isnt good enough (maybe they r trying to change our perception) but keep in mind you still have one of the best quarterbacks on that team and I dont think they are giving him a good chance to win another ring.

They've missed on some draft picks so bad, look where the defense is right now. Dont tell me they are going to get better throughout the year... the talent just isnt there. Look at the LB and DE's depth chart... actually you will find something positive... VALUE... and tons of it but last time I checked Value cant sack the quarterback and cant cover wide receivers.

Value... please!!!

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

If we can just get a stud RB and DE/OLB next year we are set... It shouldn't be that hard to do with our multiple 1st and 2nd round picks. We may be disappointed when BB trades back to get 30 7th and 6th round picks.

 

[Deus Irae]

Is the O.P. a dupe account that's just screwing with us?

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

I really dont want to be that guy but whatever.

We could have had Anquan Boldin over Bethel Johnson too, We could have had Greg Jennings over Chad Jackson too. Blah blah blah. At the time you would have taken Bethel Johnson and his blazing speed and potential to be a gamebreaking wideout, over a player who played QB in HS and was a converted College Wideout.

Chad Jackson was regarded as the top WR prospect in that draft. I still think he could have been a gamebreaker if he wasnt made out of glass. Injuries happen to great prospects, look at Robert Edwards.

All I hear is all this time how we dont draft well because some players dont pan out. People seem to forget that some of our key components came from late round selections. Asante Samuel was a 4th rounder, Mike Wright was undrafted, Julian Edelman was a 7th rounder, Jarvis Green was a late round selection, Stephen Neal was undrafted, Dan Koppen was a 5th rounder, TBC was a 7th rounder, and some guy named Brady was a 6th round pick.

They're not many teams that have had that kind of late round success where after the 3rd round you pick up an All-pro Corner, a probowl center, the most underrated guard in the league, a guy that has 10 sacks and only the 2nd Patriot to do that in the 2000s, an up and coming WR, and a hall-of-fame QB.

Now lets look at their first rounders since 2001

Richard Seymour- Need I say more? Took him over David Terrell....

Daniel Graham- Such an underrated player, our running game has never been the same since we lost him and was a great redzone threat. I guess you can make a case for Ed Reed here but no one knows what he would do in our system.

Ty Warren- A stable force on the line, can be as disruptive as anybody.

Vince Wilfork, Ben Watson- Nailed on Wilfork who I think is in the top 3 of players in this draft that included, Larry Fitzgerald and Rivers and Manning and Tommie Harrris, Watson didnt pan out as expected but was fairly productive.

Logan Mankins- All Pro Guard

Laurence Maroney- Most frustrating pick here. He started his first season off with a bang with 2 straight runs both over 20 yards, then got hurt and just never had the same tenacity.

Brandon Meriweather- The new face of the new look Patriots D, gets better every year and made the pro bowl last season

Jerod Mayo- Again, another face of the new Patriots Defense, Came back from an injury expected to take him out half the season last year after 4 weeks. Still learning on the fly.

No first rounder

Devin McCourty- Belichick calls him a 4 down player. Has shown signs of becoming a great player in the pre-season. Cant judge him yet.


Anyteam would kill for that kind of success in the first round.

 

[Sciz]

when the pats traded down in 2009 (to the packers for clay matthews), the resulting picks turned into darius butler, brandon tate, julian edelman, and almost all of rob gronkowski (7th round pick used to trade up not included).

The 89th overall pick in 2009 turned into spikes, mesko, and the panthers' 2011 2nd.

After trading down from 22 this year, the pats got mccourty, price, and hernandez.

Summary:
2009 1st + 2009 3rd + 2010 1st = butler, tate, edelman, gronk, spikes, mesko, 2011 2nd, mccourty, price, and hernandez
(and each of those 3 starting picks were toward the end of the round)

1234567890

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

In the last three years, or so, when was the last time they have traded up in the first round for a player that they wanted, or in the second round for that matter. Chad Jackson?

They moved up 2 spots last season to get Gronkowski. Two spots might not be much but they did get their guy.

 

[BlueThunder]

I won't be surprised when BB trades down with Raiders pick......probably a top 10.

Unless there is a new CBA and rookie salaries get adjusted way down.

We'll know soon enough where the weaknesses in the team are ( defense/OL/RB ) and BB will take measures to shore it up in the coming draft.

 

[Deus Irae]

In the last three years, or so, when was the last time they have traded up in the first round for a player that they wanted, or in the second round for that matter. Chad Jackson?

McCourty
Chung
Brace
Butler
Vollmer
Mayo


Those were the players chosen in the highest round N.E. has drafted in over the past 3 seasons. Which player(s) from that group do you have a problem with?

 

[Ron Sellers]

Cut him some slack. He's a fan, he soesn't make the decisions. And some of the decisions that have been made recently by those that DO make the decisions have been somewhat suspect, as the Op in this thread suggests.

And, isn't that one of the purposes of these forums, for fans to vent? Rather than asking him to enlighten you some more, why not respond to his comments, item by item, with your viewpoint, and then let him counter You didnt do that, all you did was attack the messenger. See my point?

He is a fan, you are a fan, I am a fan, and as fans, we vent Have you ever vented?

MUch of his comment makes a lot of sense, from a fans viewpoint, not from the decision makers viewpoint.

I don't disagree that the Pats have made some decisions that did not work out. And I don't mind someone venting, I've done it before here and will surely do it again, probably sooner rather than later.


I just think that there has been a lot of unfounded finger-pointing at any time the Pats have traded down as 'evidence' that those trades are the reason there are holes and question marks on the team. I have yet to see any analysis to support those claims - even with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight.

It seems to me that the 'Pats are screwing up by trading down' topic all started with opposing fans on national sites that were simply looking for a way to put down Belichick, the Pats, and Pats fans. Now it seems like it has trickled down as an accepted fact to pats fans on this site.

The problem with the 'trade down is bad' logic is that it assumes that by trading up the team gets a better player, and by trading down the team gets an inferior player. That's just not true. An example would be this last draft, when the Pats got the same exact player they were going to draft earlier by drafting down (McCourty.) Then the additional draft pick/movement up on the draft board gets ignored. As does the fact that higher draft picks can, and sometimes do turn out to be busts. And on top of everything else, that argument totally ignores the reality of a salary cap, or in the absence of that a budget.

And that's not even getting into blaming the scouting department for injuries that happened after the fact (McKenzie, Bussey.)

 

[shmessy]

......yea he has SB rings but how long can you use that to make up for his draft woes?
So now you got all your "value"d 2nd and 3rd round draft picks... quantity over quality (when is that ever a good thing??)

Your thread is satire, right?

Because, I thought it was understood that winning the Super Bowl is the priority instead of being admired by Mel Kiper.

If, indeed, your originating post was satire, then WELL PLAYED SIR!

 

[Reckedtrek]

The OP is right... we could have moved up and had Vernon freakin' Gholston, d%#*!@t! But no... we had to trade down 3 spots and take some no name waste of space- Jerod Mayo.

The OP knows what he's saying and you're a homer if you can't see his logic.


:bricks::bricks::bricks:

 

[patriot lifer]

He said he would have gotten the sure earlier round players rather than trade back and get 2 s#it players.

I think that's part of the problem though. Is there such thing as a "sure thing." So many early rounders don't pan out, and it puts all your chips in one basket. Plus, I think they felt that a number of the players in the late first round and second rounds were of comparable quality (in 2009 and 2010). So it would make sense to draft down and secure more picks. And let's not forget that we traded up to get Gronkowski, and we only traded down in the first round because BB was confident that nobody would take his player. The move made perfect sense and we picked up a third-rounder.

 

[patriot lifer]

I don't disagree that the Pats have made some decisions that did not work out. And I don't mind someone venting, I've done it before here and will surely do it again, probably sooner rather than later.


I just think that there has been a lot of unfounded finger-pointing at any time the Pats have traded down as 'evidence' that those trades are the reason there are holes and question marks on the team. I have yet to see any analysis to support those claims - even with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight.

It seems to me that the 'Pats are screwing up by trading down' topic all started with opposing fans on national sites that were simply looking for a way to put down Belichick, the Pats, and Pats fans. Now it seems like it has trickled down as an accepted fact to pats fans on this site.

The problem with the 'trade down is bad' logic is that it assumes that by trading up the team gets a better player, and by trading down the team gets an inferior player. That's just not true. An example would be this last draft, when the Pats got the same exact player they were going to draft earlier by drafting down (McCourty.) Then the additional draft pick/movement up on the draft board gets ignored. As does the fact that higher draft picks can, and sometimes do turn out to be busts. And on top of everything else, that argument totally ignores the reality of a salary cap, or in the absence of that a budget.

And that's not even getting into blaming the scouting department for injuries that happened after the fact (McKenzie, Bussey.)

:yeahthat: