The Fifth Element

[Iron Helmet]

I'd like to think I know football well enough. I've coached a bit at the high school level, read lots of books, and watched lots of games. But I can't quite figure out the Patriots (or BB) mind set. I must be missing some key element. How do we end up heading into the season with such a miss mash at OLB? TBC on one end, and cast offs (and an unproven rookie) on the other? If our CBs success depends on putting pressure on the QB, how can we be putting all these young kids in a position to fail (IMO)? No pressure to make a trade? Pull Schobel out of retirement? Anything? Murrell? Nincovich, a former long snapper? Really? Thats it? Hell, I'd consider bringing back AD.

 

[Tunescribe]

I'd like to think I know football well enough. I've coached a bit at the high school level, read lots of books, and watched lots of games. But I can't quite figure out the Patriots (or BB) mind set. I must be missing some key element. How do we end up heading into the season with such a miss mash at OLB? TBC on one end, and cast offs (and an unproven rookie) on the other? If our CBs success depends on putting pressure on the QB, how can we be putting all these young kids in a position to fail (IMO)? No pressure to make a trade? Pull Schobel out of retirement? Anything? Murrell? Nincovich, a former long snapper? Really? Thats it? Hell, I'd consider bringing back AD.

Perhaps you should wait and see how things mesh (or not) before passing judgment. Sometimes what BB sees in terms of team chemistry isn't immediately apparent to outside observers. Things don't look great on paper at the moment, but we'll find out soon enough.

 

[JR4]

You really think AD would be an improvement? I don't think so.
I like Ninkovich. For the limited time he had last year he did some good
things. With more playing time let's watch him morph into Vrabel

You may be right and the OLB group fails big time. Let's see how the D
as a whole is playing by mid season. It is easy to say get some proven
players at that position but not so easy to do these days. When PATs
were among the few playing 3-4 D it was easier.

 

[Patspsycho]

I'd like to think I know football well enough. I've coached a bit at the high school level, read lots of books, and watched lots of games. But I can't quite figure out the Patriots (or BB) mind set. I must be missing some key element. How do we end up heading into the season with such a miss mash at OLB? TBC on one end, and cast offs (and an unproven rookie) on the other? If our CBs success depends on putting pressure on the QB, how can we be putting all these young kids in a position to fail (IMO)? No pressure to make a trade? Pull Schobel out of retirement? Anything? Murrell? Nincovich, a former long snapper? Really? Thats it? Hell, I'd consider bringing back AD.

That's what this forum is for: to have intelligent football discussion, and to ask those questions, and to hopefully discuss them without flaming or bashing.

 

[borg]

I'd like to think I know football well enough. I've coached a bit at the high school level, read lots of books, and watched lots of games. But I can't quite figure out the Patriots (or BB) mind set. I must be missing some key element. How do we end up heading into the season with such a miss mash at OLB? TBC on one end, and cast offs (and an unproven rookie) on the other? If our CBs success depends on putting pressure on the QB, how can we be putting all these young kids in a position to fail (IMO)? No pressure to make a trade? Pull Schobel out of retirement? Anything? Murrell? Nincovich, a former long snapper? Really? Thats it? Hell, I'd consider bringing back AD.

BB's mindset reminds me of the old John Wayne joke.

Guy comes out of the theatre after a John Wayne western, shakes his head in disbelief, goes to the box office, buys another ticket and enters the same movie once again. Two hours later, the guy exits the movie, shakes his head, marches up to the box office and buys another ticket. The ticket salesman asks the fella why he wants to see this movie a third time. He says, " because there is no way the Duke is falling off a horse three times in a row."

 

[Off The Grid]

I'd like to think I know football well enough. I've coached a bit at the high school level, read lots of books, and watched lots of games. But I can't quite figure out the Patriots (or BB) mind set. I must be missing some key element. How do we end up heading into the season with such a miss mash at OLB? TBC on one end, and cast offs (and an unproven rookie) on the other? If our CBs success depends on putting pressure on the QB, how can we be putting all these young kids in a position to fail (IMO)? No pressure to make a trade? Pull Schobel out of retirement? Anything? Murrell? Nincovich, a former long snapper? Really? Thats it? Hell, I'd consider bringing back AD.

Perhaps you should wait and see how things mesh (or not) before passing judgment. Sometimes what BB sees in terms of team chemistry isn't immediately apparent to outside observers. Things don't look great on paper at the moment, but we'll find out soon enough.

Here's hoping the Mish Mash doesn't Mesh into Mosh Mush.

 

[Iron Helmet]

I want to be optimistic. I like Ninkovich as a pass rusher, but 2 things about him I didn't like: He always seemed to be getting dinged after plays, and he doesn't seem to have the power to hold the point against a rush in his direction. Murrell seemed serviceable...as a backup. Cunningham is the wild card. Perhaps he appeared to be a beast during practices so much so that nothing else needed to be addressed at the position, other than cutting the incumbent starter (Burgess). I carefully watched all the preseason games, and frankly, I haven't felt this way since BB went with Cassell when Brady went down...and I ate crow that year...we played better than I thought, BUT I would have loved to have seen a veteran QB at the helm of that offense (it was a record setting offense the year before), to really gauge how well Cassell did.

I went on the record that year saying BB had actually had brought TOO much brain power to the job of coaching, and forgot that players make schemes, not the other way around...Getting the same feeling this go around at OLB.

 

[Kontradiction]

I want to be optimistic. I like Ninkovich as a pass rusher, but 2 things about him I didn't like: He always seemed to be getting dinged after plays, and he doesn't seem to have the power to hold the point against a rush in his direction. Murrell seemed serviceable...as a backup. Cunningham is the wild card. Perhaps he appeared to be a beast during practices so much so that nothing else needed to be addressed at the position, other than cutting the incumbent starter (Burgess). I carefully watched all the preseason games, and frankly, I haven't felt this way since BB went with Cassell when Brady went down...and I ate crow that year...we played better than I thought, BUT I would have loved to have seen a veteran QB at the helm of that offense (it was a record setting offense the year before), to really gauge how well Cassell did.

I went on the record that year saying BB had actually had brought TOO much brain power to the job of coaching, and forgot that players make schemes, not the other way around...Getting the same feeling this go around at OLB.

Well, HOPEFULLY, Ninkovich won't be starting Week 1. Hopefully we'll be seeing TBC across from Cunningham, who is healthy and making an impact. Hopefully, Ninkovich and Murrell will be saved for situational packages and/or injuries. The key word here is HOPE.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

I'd like to think I know football well enough. I've coached a bit at the high school level, read lots of books, and watched lots of games. But I can't quite figure out the Patriots (or BB) mind set. I must be missing some key element. How do we end up heading into the season with such a miss mash at OLB? TBC on one end, and cast offs (and an unproven rookie) on the other? If our CBs success depends on putting pressure on the QB, how can we be putting all these young kids in a position to fail (IMO)? No pressure to make a trade? Pull Schobel out of retirement? Anything? Murrell? Nincovich, a former long snapper? Really? Thats it? Hell, I'd consider bringing back AD.

As Tunescribe said, let's wait and see how things play out early in the season. This game won't be the tell-all of how the defense will play this season.

Back in 2004, we beat the Colts on opening night but they shredded us for over 200 yards rushing and almost 5 ypc. People got concerned. We finished 6th in rushing yards allowed that year.

I think we have a young defense that will give us headaches but also get better as the season goes on.

 

[scout]

Hey Iron Helmet, hope you keep on posting. I like to read posts that are written from people who know football. Definitely from members who stood on the sidelines and know a little about the X's and O's. Me, I'm more of an avid fan who thinks in terms of the behavioral issues. AD, I believe would cause more problems in chemistry and in the locker room then he could produce on the field. I don't like my morning cup of coffee with quotes from pissed off players. I'm willing to suck it up this year with the kids and reap the rewards down the road.

 

[letekro]

There are a only a handful of double digit sack guys in the NFL (13 last year and we already have one of them). These threads make it seem like there are dozens of these guys on the street waiting in vain to be claimed by some rush-needy team, if only BB would just look their way!

Sure, maybe he could've tried to trade for an Andre Carter, or someone similar, but this is just what they did last year with Burgess, which, everyone agrees, did not work! Look, if they can get 6-8 sacks out of Ninko/Murrell/Cunningham, that's probably better than what any "name" they reasonably could've gotten would've produced. DeMarcus Ware ain't walking through that door, folks.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I'd like to think I know football well enough. I've coached a bit at the high school level, read lots of books, and watched lots of games. But I can't quite figure out the Patriots (or BB) mind set. I must be missing some key element. How do we end up heading into the season with such a miss mash at OLB? TBC on one end, and cast offs (and an unproven rookie) on the other? If our CBs success depends on putting pressure on the QB, how can we be putting all these young kids in a position to fail (IMO)? No pressure to make a trade? Pull Schobel out of retirement? Anything? Murrell? Nincovich, a former long snapper? Really? Thats it? Hell, I'd consider bringing back AD.

Listening to BB on the radio today he really likes the guys he has and must feel they're coachable, they're certainly young but I supposed the best thing to do is get them experience and learn on the job.
Im thinking we wont know what we have til halfway through the season and as long as theres improvement that will be a good sign.

 

[patsfan13]

I haven't seen the team in practice at all prior to Bodden's injury I felt the D would clearly be better. The line, G Warren for Green, and Brace for Warren, slight dropoff NT the same. ILB significantly better, Spikes for Mayo (last years MAyo coming off the injury) and Mayo another year away from surgery for Guyton, big upgrade. OLB TBC same, Murrell/Ninkovich/Cunningham upgrade over AD. Safety, Merriweather a push, Chung upgrade. The CB if we had Bodden a stronger group. Bodden hurts at least for the first part of the year.


IMO the D will have it's ups and downs but by the end of the year it can be a playoff ready D. We shall see.

 

[PatsSB]

Well, HOPEFULLY, Ninkovich won't be starting Week 1. Hopefully we'll be seeing TBC across from Cunningham, who is healthy and making an impact. Hopefully, Ninkovich and Murrell will be saved for situational packages and/or injuries. The key word here is HOPE.

i sincerely hope so. the monday practice report does not support TBC/Cunningham, though. For me, Ninkovich is quite explosive but needs coaching. Murrell is still raw.

 

[shmessy]

That Mankins for Peppers trade tomorrow will solve everything.

 

[jczxohn1]

There are a only a handful of double digit sack guys in the NFL (13 last year and we already have one of them). These threads make it seem like there are dozens of these guys on the street waiting in vain to be claimed by some rush-needy team, if only BB would just look their way!

Sure, maybe he could've tried to trade for an Andre Carter, or someone similar, but this is just what they did last year with Burgess, which, everyone agrees, did not work! Look, if they can get 6-8 sacks out of Ninko/Murrell/Cunningham, that's probably better than what any "name" they reasonably could've gotten would've produced. DeMarcus Ware ain't walking through that door, folks.

Compounding the difficulty of finding an edge rusher is finding one who can also set the edge against the run, which was Burgess' downfall. McGinest and Vrabel have awfully hard to replace; this problem has no easy answer.

 

[BlueThunder]

That Mankins for Peppers trade tomorrow will solve everything.

hahahahahahahahaha..


is that 10 chars?

 

[PatsSB]

That Mankins for Peppers trade tomorrow will solve everything.

That's funny

 

[Fencer]

The good news is that we're going into the season with two returning Pro Bowlers on defense. The bad news is that -- with TBC surprisingly excepted -- everybody else on defense is either a journeyman or pretty raw. The good news in the face of that is that the young players include a recent DPOY, a rookie ILB who looks like he'll make an impact quickly, and a second-year high-pick safety who's looking pretty darned good.

The strength of this defense is up the middle. Hopefully, that will be good enough.

 

[Patspsycho]

i sincerely hope so. the monday practice report does not support TBC/Cunningham, though. For me, Ninkovich is quite explosive but needs coaching. Murrell is still raw.

Murrell is raw? Where do you get that idea? This is his 4th year.