Confession Day for Coaches: Cut your Mistakes

[PatsFanStnfrd]

Yesterday was "Confession is Good for Your Soul" Day for Coaches. Whether it was Arizona pulling the plug on Leinart in favor of undrafted Max Hall; whether it was Parcells/Sparano/Ireland guy admitting that their 2009 draftees in round # 2 (Pat White) and 3 (a WR) were failures; or whether it was Belichick who showed the door to a surprised group of veterans (Burgess, Aiken, Alexander, Woods) and draftees (Larsen, Welch from '10 and Ohrnberger and Bussey from '09) alike. In Denver, McDaniels cut the guy, CB A. Smith, for whom Denver traded a 2010 1st round pick (technically it was a trade with the Lions but effectively they got rid of him).

How much of this is due to what is widely touted to be a strong 2010 draft class of rookies? How much is due to weak 2008 and 2009 drafts? How much of this is simply the idiosyncratic mistakes of individual GM/Coaches?

 

[DarrylS]

Not sure how you include the Pats in this, as your comparison is anecdotal at best...

22 members of this squad are made up of first and second year players they drafted... this year 8 of 12 made the team, last year 9 of 12 made it.. this coupled with 3 UDFA last year, and two UDFA this year are fairly demonstrative that the past couple of years have been very positive for the pats..

There will always be mistakes, last year, if I remember correctly, of our 53 something like 13 were UDFA...

 

[Ring 6]

Yesterday was "Confession is Good for Your Soul" Day for Coaches. Whether it was Arizona pulling the plug on Leinart in favor of undrafted Max Hall; whether it was Parcells/Sparano/Ireland guy admitting that their 2009 draftees in round # 2 (Pat White) and 3 (a WR) were failures; or whether it was Belichick who showed the door to a surprised group of veterans (Burgess, Aiken, Alexander, Woods) and draftees (Larsen, Welch from '10 and Ohrnberger and Bussey from '09) alike. In Denver, McDaniels cut the guy, CB A. Smith, for whom Denver traded a 2010 1st round pick (technically it was a trade with the Lions but effectively they got rid of him).

How much of this is due to what is widely touted to be a strong 2010 draft class of rookies? How much is due to weak 2008 and 2009 drafts? How much of this is simply the idiosyncratic mistakes of individual GM/Coaches?

I think your entire premise is just wrong. Coaches work to build the best team they can. They simply don't sit there and think about the ramificaitons of what it means to how people perceive them as drafters.
Once the pick is made, the players are all equal, with the exception of the fact that there is more natural ability in higher picks, so they normally move ahead of the less talented low picks right away, but earning it, not by coaches feeling they have to protect their drafting image.

 

[Galjen89]

Yesterday was "Confession is Good for Your Soul" Day for Coaches. Whether it was Arizona pulling the plug on Leinart in favor of undrafted Max Hall; whether it was Parcells/Sparano/Ireland guy admitting that their 2009 draftees in round # 2 (Pat White) and 3 (a WR) were failures; or whether it was Belichick who showed the door to a surprised group of veterans (Burgess, Aiken, Alexander, Woods) and draftees (Larsen, Welch from '10 and Ohrnberger and Bussey from '09) alike. In Denver, McDaniels cut the guy, CB A. Smith, for whom Denver traded a 2010 1st round pick (technically it was a trade with the Lions but effectively they got rid of him).

How much of this is due to what is widely touted to be a strong 2010 draft class of rookies? How much is due to weak 2008 and 2009 drafts? How much of this is simply the idiosyncratic mistakes of individual GM/Coaches?

All the others were first or second round picks. No bust can come out of rounds 5 6 or 7. Pats could be included if Meriweather, Mayo, Chung or Butler was cut.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think your entire premise is just wrong. Coaches work to build the best team they can. They simply don't sit there and think about the ramificaitons of what it means to how people perceive them as drafters.
Once the pick is made, the players are all equal, with the exception of the fact that there is more natural ability in higher picks, so they normally move ahead of the less talented low picks right away, but earning it, not by coaches feeling they have to protect their drafting image.

Fans overemphasize the swing and miss and underemphasize a stubborn inability to admit a mistake costing teams more over time. In Oakland the coaches were over ruled Saturday on an ownership driven second round reach from 2009 whom Ralph is apparently not ready to concede defeat on. In Chicago they are in total denial on many levels...

Like Bill says, you never know what a player really is capable of until you see him perform in your system (and in some cases in the role for which you envisioned him to begin with which isn't always the one fans and mediots grasped). Although just because he can't perform in yours doesn't mean he can't perform on some level in someone else's. After all, look at AD...

Report: Al Davis overrules decision to cut Mike Mitchell | ProFootballTalk.com

Scout's honor: Jay Cutler is flawed :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Bears

 

[Ring 6]

Fans overemphasize the swing and miss and underemphasize a stubborn inability to admit a mistake costing teams more over time. In Oakland the coaches were over ruled Saturday on an ownership driven second round reach from 2009 whom Ralph is apparently not ready to concede defeat on. In Chicago they are in total denial on many levels...

Like Bill says, you never know what a player really is capable of until you see him perform in your system (and in some cases in the role for which you envisioned him to begin with which isn't always the one fans and mediots grasped). Although just because he can't perform in yours doesn't mean he can't perform on some level in someone else's. After all, look at AD...

Report: Al Davis overrules decision to cut Mike Mitchell | ProFootballTalk.com

Scout's honor: Jay Cutler is flawed :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Bears

AD performed in Baltimores and performed in ours too, until his skills eroded.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Fans overemphasize the swing and miss and underemphasize a stubborn inability to admit a mistake costing teams more over time. In Oakland the coaches were over ruled Saturday on an ownership driven second round reach from 2009 whom Ralph is apparently not ready to concede defeat on. In Chicago they are in total denial on many levels...

Like Bill says, you never know what a player really is capable of until you see him perform in your system (and in some cases in the role for which you envisioned him to begin with which isn't always the one fans and mediots grasped). Although just because he can't perform in yours doesn't mean he can't perform on some level in someone else's. After all, look at AD...

Report: Al Davis overrules decision to cut Mike Mitchell | ProFootballTalk.com

Scout's honor: Jay Cutler is flawed :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Bears

Here is another example....Tanny has decreed the 4th round vomiting, fumbling running back he traded up for will make the team, even though Rex Ryan has stated that he will never use him on the 45 man game day roster.

 

[Ring 6]

Here is another example....Tanny has decreed the 4th round vomiting, fumbling running back he traded up for will make the team, even though Rex Ryan has stated that he will never use him on the 45 man game day roster.

do you have a link?

 

[jagkho]

I think your entire premise is just wrong. Coaches work to build the best team they can. They simply don't sit there and think about the ramificaitons of what it means to how people perceive them as drafters.
Once the pick is made, the players are all equal, with the exception of the fact that there is more natural ability in higher picks, so they normally move ahead of the less talented low picks right away, but earning it, not by coaches feeling they have to protect their drafting image.

I think we are fortunate that the Patriots do follow the philosophy that they dont have to protect their drafting image, but I dont think all teams are this way. Just look at a number of recent high 1st round QB picks that teams hung on to far too long (JaMarcus Russell, Alex Smith, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch). Not admitting their mistakes in effect held the team back a couple of more years than necessary. I actually admire that the Cards released Leinart for this reason.

 

[Ring 6]

I think we are fortunate that the Patriots do follow the philosophy that they dont have to protect their drafting image, but I dont think all teams are this way. Just look at a number of recent high 1st round QB picks that teams hung on to far too long (JaMarcus Russell, Alex Smith, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch). Not admitting their mistakes in effect held the team back a couple of more years than necessary. I actually admire that the Cards released Leinart for this reason.

I think thats very different.
All of those QBs had tremendous physical skills. Every one of them could have been stars in this league but for issues with maturity, football smarts, or just adjusting to the more difficult competition. I dont think any of them were kept in order to protect a drafting image (in most cases putting them on the field was more harmful to the orgs reputation than cutting them) but that their skill level was so high, they needed to be patient with the other parts. I disagree that any of those 5 guys were ever put out on the field with the idea that there was no chance they can 'get it' just to save face.
Leinhart's attitude got him his ticket out of town. He was still competing for the job, although reduced to 1A when he went to the media, ripped the coach, and made comments that indicated he felt he was where he needed to be, and didn't need to improve. THAT got him cut, not that the 2 rookie backups were better options.

 

[jagkho]

I think thats very different.
All of those QBs had tremendous physical skills. Every one of them could have been stars in this league but for issues with maturity, football smarts, or just adjusting to the more difficult competition. I dont think any of them were kept in order to protect a drafting image (in most cases putting them on the field was more harmful to the orgs reputation than cutting them) but that their skill level was so high, they needed to be patient with the other parts. I disagree that any of those 5 guys were ever put out on the field with the idea that there was no chance they can 'get it' just to save face.
Leinhart's attitude got him his ticket out of town. He was still competing for the job, although reduced to 1A when he went to the media, ripped the coach, and made comments that indicated he felt he was where he needed to be, and didn't need to improve. THAT got him cut, not that the 2 rookie backups were better options.

You make a good point, but I also think that experience has shown that it is rare that physical skills alone can make you successful in the NFL, especially at the QB position. I mean, out in Oakland, the whole team (and coaching staff) gave up on JaMarcus Russell, yet they still played him. Was some of it because of his physical skills? Yeah I think probably a bit was due to that, but I also think at least some part of it was because Al Davis didnt want to admit he made a huge mistake. And I think that Belichick and Kraft are less influenced by this type of thing, and I am grateful for that.

 

[SanAngeloState]

very surprised they just cut ohrn-bust especially with kaczur likely headed to IR.

I was castigated on here by a veteran poster, I won't say who, when I referred to him as such. I didn't really expect him to get cut though. Godspeed, Mr. Ohrnberger.

 

[DaBruinz]

very surprised they just cut ohrn-bust especially with kaczur likely headed to IR.

I was castigated on here by a veteran poster, I won't say who, when I referred to him as such. I didn't really expect him to get cut though. Godspeed, Mr. Ohrnberger.

Mr. Orhnberger was re-signed to that Pats practice squad.

Saw the thread where you were "castigated". Looked to be well-deserved.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

do you have a link?

Here's one.

FWIW, though, Tubby says PukeKnight would make the 53.

 

[SanAngeloState]

Mr. Orhnberger was re-signed to that Pats practice squad.

Saw the thread where you were "castigated". Looked to be well-deserved.

Well then BB needs to be castigated as well for cutting these two players although he did resign one to the PS. Apparentlyy he didn't think that much of them either. Which means they aren't far from bustville...a lot closer than the high status that you and that other hold them in.

 

[ausbacker]

The Patriots have effectively wasted some higher draft picks in the last 5 or so years. Someone needs to be made accountable.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The Patriots have effectively wasted some higher draft picks in the last 5 or so years. Someone needs to be made accountable.

If the Patriots manage to pull a Vernon Gholston or Ted Ginn, that's when I'll call for heads to roll.

In the grand scheme of things, though, especially the last couple of years, they've done a lot more right than they have wrong. [And, I might add, that's one of the benefits of drafting as many players as they have in 2009 and 2010. They can afford a few mistakes here and there, and still have more hits than some teams even have swings (*cough* Green Beans *cough*).]

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

Tom Curran chimes in Pats releases hint at bad drafting

This weekend, the Patriots have made several moves which are tantamount to saying, "We screwed up." Bully for them for being honest. Shame on them for doing it in the first place .

 

[RayClay]

There is no such thing as bad drafting, only bad teams. If we use a free agent instead of a #1 because he performs better, then good for us.

You should hit on the top half of the first round most of the time, but nothing else matters if you field a better team than others IMO.

Judging anything other than won loss (esp post season) as a criteria for good drafting is just a fetish.

 

[RayClay]

Tom Curran chimes in Pats releases hint at bad drafting

This weekend, the Patriots have made several moves which are tantamount to saying, "We screwed up." Bully for them for being honest. Shame on them for doing it in the first place .

You'd prefer they kept all their picks, said "we're the best drafters", then suck on the field?