Do PUP rules need changing?

[JR4]

A player can only be placed on the Active PUP list prior to beginning of
training camp.
From what I've read only Active PUP players are eligible for the
Reserve PUP list. Reserve PUP may be activated after week 6 of the season.

Here is where I could see a change.

Considering the 4 weeks of preseason game and considering so many key
players get injured in meaningless games I feel the NFL should allow a team
to place at least 1 or 2 players that get injured during these meaningless
games on the reserve PUP list.

As of now, some preseason injuries to key players could be rehabbed in 6
to 10 weeks but teams have no option to reevaluate an injured player if
the player was not the active PUP to begin with.

any thoughts on this?

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

I'm absolutely all for that.

Something needs to change. It's ridiculous that a player can get hurt in the first five minutes of the first training camp practice, an injury that let's say would have him out the first month, and your only options are waste a roster spot or done for season.

If the competition committee is worried about it being taken advantage of, limit the amount of players eligible, as you said.

 

[Schmo]

disabled list maybe... like MLB?

 

[jmt57]

Similar to what was discussed on another thread, it may be time for a 4-game or 8-game IR, for a limited number of players. Perhaps, for example, two 4-game IR designations and one 8-game IR, along with the current unlimited number of season-ending IR moves.

This would be an important consideration if or when the NFL goes to an 18 game season.

 

[Pats726]

The PUP list is just that for injuries BEFORE a player is in camp and I DO think they male sense and should stay that way. But I also think as many do that injuries in Preseason games and at the start of camp need to be looked at in the larger picture. Not sure exactly how and or what they would be, but they need to be done in a way that will not be abused. That is one reason the league has only IR available now. THAT WILL need to change if there is an 18 game season.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Reality is it will be abused.

Lets say it was limited to 2 players and the last day to add a player to the list is the day before the 4th pre-season game. That day every NFL coach will make his list of the 53 players he plans to keep. He will than select the two players that would make the them if the list was really 55. Those two players will have some sort of mysterious training camp injury that nobody knew about.

 

[JR4]

Reality is it will be abused.

Lets say it was limited to 2 players and the last day to add a player to the list is the day before the 4th pre-season game. That day every NFL coach will make his list of the 53 players he plans to keep. He will than select the two players that would make the them if the list was really 55. Those two players will have some sort of mysterious training camp injury that nobody knew about.

Your point is well taken. Then here is an option to prevent that.

Before training camp starts teams must submit a list of say 30 essential players.
Players from this list can be added to the reserve PUP list at any time
until the final cut down.

Also limit the number of players that can be selected from this list.
This is in addition to Active PUP players which also be added.

 

[Peachhead]

disabled list maybe... like MLB?

Exactly. Kind of a PUP list you could use anytime of the year.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Your point is well taken. Then here is an option to prevent that.

Before training camp starts teams must submit a list of say 30 essential players.
Players from this list can be added to the reserve PUP list at any time
until the final cut down.

Also limit the number of players that can be selected from this list.
This is in addition to Active PUP players which also be added.

My list of 30 will consist of 22 projected starters, 3 key subs/special teamer and 5 projected bubble players. If I have a real injury or two to the top 25 I use the slots for them, if not 2 out of those 5 are gonna have a weird mysterious injury on the last day of training camp.

Your list might work if being on the list of 30 also required that the player is paid at least double the league minimum and that adding the player to the list guarantees his salary for the year.

 

[JR4]

My list of 30 will consist of 22 projected starters, 3 key subs/special teamer and 5 projected bubble players. If I have a real injury or two to the top 25 I use the slots for them, if not 2 out of those 5 are gonna have a weird mysterious injury on the last day of training camp.

Your list might work if being on the list of 30 also required that the player is paid at least double the league minimum and that adding the player to the list guarantees his salary for the year.

You must be a devious thinker to come up with these loop holes.

OK, your idea of double league minimum is good. No list needed.
If a player meets that criteria they can be put on the reserve PUP anytime up to the last cut down date.
Also such a PUP player gets salary guaranteed for the year.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

You must be a devious thinker to come up with these loop holes.

OK, your idea of double league minimum is good. No list needed.
If a player meets that criteria they can be put on the reserve PUP anytime up to the last cut down date.
Also such a PUP player gets salary guaranteed for the year.

Add in he can't be a rookie. Otherwise I might stick my underperforming second or third rounder on the list.

 

[patchick]

The salary-based idea is pretty clever. But consider that would rule out any player on a rookie contract drafted after the top 40-50 picks. That means Vollmer, Tate, Ingram, Edelman, Mesko, Hernandez etc. wouldn't be eligible -- or Gostkowski last year.

 

[Sicilian]

If only the CBA negotiations moved along this quickly... you guys should go talk to those guys

 

[JR4]

The salary-based idea is pretty clever. But consider that would rule out any player on a rookie contract drafted after the top 40-50 picks. That means Vollmer, Tate, Ingram, Edelman, Mesko, Hernandez etc. wouldn't be eligible -- or Gostkowski last year.

Good point also. But consider a team is not really sure of how a player
will turn out. I think rookies should be exempt from such a rule anyway.
After a rookie year if the team feels that player is essential then they
can renegotiate their contract so they fall under the protection of this
rule.
Such a rule may not give a team 100% protection but it is sure a lot better
than what exists today.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

The salary-based idea is pretty clever. But consider that would rule out any player on a rookie contract drafted after the top 40-50 picks. That means Vollmer, Tate, Ingram, Edelman, Mesko, Hernandez etc. wouldn't be eligible -- or Gostkowski last year.

If a player is so damn good and essential to the team that you want him to have this protection, than give him a pay raise. If he is that good, he deserves it.

 

[patchick]

If a player is so damn good and essential to the team that you want him to have this protection, than give him a pay raise. If he is that good, he deserves it.

Yikes...reopening contract negotiations with a rookie-contract player on the grounds that he's "essential to the team" is opening a huge can of worms. (Fig. 1: Revis.) You can't just unilaterally toss them enough money to reach some eligibility cutoff.

I think most of the abuse and "stashing" concerns are really about the game 1 roster. That's why I keep beating the drum of a 6 or 8-game IR option that would only be available after game 1.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Yikes...reopening contract negotiations with a rookie-contract player on the grounds that he's "essential to the team" is opening a huge can of worms. (Fig. 1: Revis.) You can't just unilaterally toss them enough money to reach some eligibility cutoff.

Why not?

If the owners proposed this, would the union balk at a provision in the next CBA that allows a team to unilateral raise a players salary at any time during the pre-season, while not affecting any other terms of the contract such as the length of the contract or future pay?

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

There needs to be something for players that get hurt in training camp or early in the season.

The argument against it is that it will be abused by coaches stashing players on it just so they don't lose them to other teams.

My solution: only a set number of players can be put on the list per season, period. If the number is two and you put two players on it at the end of training camp, you're done. Whether those two players come off the list or go to IR, it doesn't matter, the team has used it's two spots and they don't get them back.

I think that would at least make coaches think twice before they put a 7th rounder on the list simply as protection.

Imagine if this existed last season. Let's say Belichick put a couple of players on the list after training camp so they wouldn't be cut. Once Fred Taylor went down and missed a lot of the season, the team would be out of luck. It would have been the same, either IR him or have one less healthy player on the roster.

With this rule, assuming Belichick had saved his exemptions, Taylor would have been able to go to the PUP, thus saving a roster spot until he was healthy or the time limit expired.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

There needs to be something for players that get hurt in training camp or early in the season.

The argument against it is that it will be abused by coaches stashing players on it just so they don't lose them to other teams.

My solution: only a set number of players can be put on the list per season, period. If the number is two and you put two players on it at the end of training camp, you're done. Whether those two players come off the list or go to IR, it doesn't matter, the team has used it's two spots and they don't get them back.

I think that would at least make coaches think twice before they put a 7th rounder on the list simply as protection.

Imagine if this existed last season. Let's say Belichick put a couple of players on the list after training camp so they wouldn't be cut. Once Fred Taylor went down and missed a lot of the season, the team would be out of luck. It would have been the same, either IR him or have one less healthy player on the roster.

With this rule, assuming Belichick had saved his exemptions, Taylor would have been able to go to the PUP, thus saving a roster spot until he was healthy or the time limit expired.

Or we could just raise the roster to 55 players.

Personally I think the rules are fine as is. If Bodden's chances of coming healthy enough to make an impact on the season warrented it, BB would use one of the 53 spots on him. Obviously BB didn't even think it was a close enough call to wait a week until after the operation.

 

[SirApropos]

Um guys they already have something in place for this. It's called the 45-man gameday active roster. There are 8 spots for players each week that can't play due to injury, had a crappy week in practice, etc. Nick Kazcur wil probably play at least the first half of the season as non-active if they don't place him on IR.