Kade Weston NT?

[RayClay]

Read he was being worked there, but couldn't find the article. I've been saying they'll work with Brace if he shows the effort, but does anyone still feel he is willing to take on double teams all day? Could be wrong, but I don't know what his injury is.

For arguments sake, let's say he's giving a half assed effort. That won't work at that position, especially with his lack of athleticism. If true, he's as good as gone IMO.

Pryor's a stop gap, he's not big enough, though I like him as a sub. Weston is supposed to compete for the DE job, but i doubt we'll use a 7th rounder there unless we got insanely lucky.

He's huge, almost 6'5" listed 317. If he wants it, I imagine he could build himself up and out.

Thoughts?

 

[mgteich]

I think that there are six defenisve line spots, unless a kid is so great that we can't risk the Practice Sqaud with him. I don't think Weston fits this characterization (or Deaderick).

Unless Ty Warren isn't expected to be ready by the bye, I don't anyone but the four "W" as a primary rotation. I see Lewis and Pryor as reasonable backups.

I would note that the #5 and the #6 last year participated in only 27% and 5% of the defensive reps. Lewis and Pryor are more than adequate to be backups and to be part of the four man rotation if needed because of injury.

Read he was being worked there, but couldn't find the article. I've been saying they'll work with Brace if he shows the effort, but does anyone still feel he is willing to take on double teams all day? Could be wrong, but I don't know what his injury is.

For arguments sake, let's say he's giving a half assed effort. That won't work at that position, especially with his lack of athleticism. If true, he's as good as gone IMO.

Pryor's a stop gap, he's not big enough, though I like him as a sub. Weston is supposed to compete for the DE job, but i doubt we'll use a 7th rounder there unless we got insanely lucky.

He's huge, almost 6'5" listed 317. If he wants it, I imagine he could build himself up and out.

Thoughts?

 

[RayClay]

I think that there are six defenisve line spots, unless a kid is so great that we can't risk the Practice Sqaud with him. I don't think Weston fits this characterization (or Deaderick).

Unless Ty Warren isn't expected to be ready by the bye, I don't anyone but the four "W" as a primary rotation. I see Lewis and Pryor as reasonable backups.

I would note that the #5 and the #6 last year participated in only 27% and 5% of the defensive reps. Lewis and Pryor are more than adequate to be backups and to be part of the four man rotation if needed because of injury.

I'm talking about grooming a possible nose tackle. almost no one comes out of college ready to play that position, they need to have size and willingness to learn and take that punishment. Players don't get numbers like in a bakery, sometimes there are projects and NT is a project position that's highly valued,.

We had a guy named Ethan Kelly that was kept in the "system" for two years even though he was a 7th rounder converted from an offensive lineman. it's not because he was the next best lineman, not even close. It's because they saw a possibility he could be made into a serviceable NT.

Pryor is willing and probably wins a spot, but he's not a real NT candidate, he's a stop gap.

 

[mgteich]

And Ethan Kelley was a wasted roster spot. We are better off bringing in a street free agent when we need an additional NT or NT backup, as we did last year. I don't sdee why it reasonable to use a roster spot to develop a backup NT. We have Wilfork. We have others to fill in in an emergency basis.

So, no I don't want to use a roster spot to develop a player who would take two years to develop, and then when ready, be inactive unless Wilfork were injured.

That being said, I have no problem at all with Weston making the team instead of Pryor if he is as ready to play this year as Pryor was last. And yes, I am even open to keeping a developing DL as one of our last roster spots.

I'm talking about grooming a possible nose tackle. almost no one comes out of college ready to play that position, they need to have size and willingness to learn and take that punishment. Players don't get numbers like in a bakery, sometimes there are projects and NT is a project position that's highly valued,.

We had a guy named Ethan Kelly that was kept in the "system" for two years even though he was a 7th rounder converted from an offensive lineman. it's not because he was the next best lineman, not even close. It's because they saw a possibility he could be made into a serviceable NT.

Pryor is willing and probably wins a spot, but he's not a real NT candidate, he's a stop gap.

 

[RayClay]

And Ethan Kelley was a wasted roster spot. We are better off bringing in a street free agent when we need an additional NT or NT backup, as we did last year. I don't sdee why it reasonable to use a roster spot to develop a backup NT. We have Wilfork. We have others to fill in in an emergency basis.

So, no I don't want to use a roster spot to develop a player who would take two years to develop, and then when ready, be inactive unless Wilfork were injured.

That being said, I have no problem at all with Weston making the team instead of Pryor if he is as ready to play this year as Pryor was last. And yes, I am even open to keeping a developing DL as one of our last roster spots.

There aren't street free agents who can play nose tackle. That's why teams have to develop them or waste second round picks on tubs of goo like Brace.

I don't think Weston would have to make the team instead of Pryor, if Pryor was stout enough, he would be the backup NT of the future. Pryor has his own skills and some experience. he will make the team based on whether they want him on the team.

Teams don't go down the roster, decide how many players for each position, then pick the first six guys in line. They decide which players they can use, which are worth developing, and the chances they can hide them on the practice squad or if they're (wink) injured.

Having made those decisions, they then end up with a certain number at each position.

 

[mcsully]

On the pregame, Zolak was making a pitch how high a ceiling Brace has compared to the other players at his position. They kept mentioning him as a NT and without saying it, he was making a pitch to move Wilfork at DE


Now I know Warren, not Ty, had a good game but the addition of Brace would not make us dependant on a guy who was drafted #3 overall been just a (a little above being) JAG for most of his career.. Of course that is a big "if" right now with Brace

Of course I was a big fan of drafting mount Cody and moving Wilfork to DE and firming up the depth at DL..

 

[RayClay]

On the pregame, Zolak was making a pitch how high a ceiling Brace has compared to the other players at his position. They kept mentioning him as a NT and without saying it, he was making a pitch to move Wilfork at DE


Now I know Warren, not Ty, had a good game but the addition of Brace would not make us dependant on a guy who was drafted #3 overall been just a (a little above being) JAG for most of his career.. Of course that is a big "if" right now with Brace

Of course I was a big fan of drafting mount Cody and moving Wilfork to DE and firming up the depth at DL..

Don't think the height of the ceiling in the hot tub room really matters right now.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

With T Warren probably out all season we need a backup NT on the roster.

If BB goes with 6 DL guys. Wilfork, G Warren, Wright and Lewis appear in the lead for 4 of those 6 spots.

That leaves Pryor, Deaderick, Richard, Love, Weston and others battling for the remaining 2 spots, but only Weston and Love could realistically man the nose for any extended period of time. And I am not sure either is an NFL calibre DL.

I wish we had drafted Mount Cody!

 

[BradyFTW!]

With T Warren probably out all season we need a backup NT on the roster.

If BB goes with 6 DL guys. Wilfork, G Warren, Wright and Lewis appear in the lead for 4 of those 6 spots.

That leaves Pryor, Deaderick, Richard, Love, Weston and others battling for the remaining 2 spots, but only Weston and Love could realistically man the nose for any extended period of time. And I am not sure either is an NFL calibre DL.

I wish we had drafted Mount Cody!

You wish we drafted this guy?:

 

[mgteich]

I missed something. Ty Warren is out for the year and we need a nose tackle?

With T Warren probably out all season we need a backup NT on the roster.

If BB goes with 6 DL guys. Wilfork, G Warren, Wright and Lewis appear in the lead for 4 of those 6 spots.

That leaves Pryor, Deaderick, Richard, Love, Weston and others battling for the remaining 2 spots, but only Weston and Love could realistically man the nose for any extended period of time. And I am not sure either is an NFL calibre DL.

I wish we had drafted Mount Cody!

 

[mgteich]

A) When Wilfork was injured last year, and tubby wasn't ready, Belichick signed Terdell Sands for a couple of weeks.

B) When I called Brace a developmental NT, others here indicated that he was a top value DL or Belichick wouldn't have drafted him. Surely if it were just a matter of developing a nose tackle, Belichick could have contented himself with a couple of late rounders.

C) With Ty Warren out for the season, there is now room for a developmental DL. The choices are Brace, Weston, Deaderick, Richard and Love. Is Weston your choice?

There aren't street free agents who can play nose tackle. That's why teams have to develop them or waste second round picks on tubs of goo like Brace.

I don't think Weston would have to make the team instead of Pryor, if Pryor was stout enough, he would be the backup NT of the future. Pryor has his own skills and some experience. he will make the team based on whether they want him on the team.

Teams don't go down the roster, decide how many players for each position, then pick the first six guys in line. They decide which players they can use, which are worth developing, and the chances they can hide them on the practice squad or if they're (wink) injured.

Having made those decisions, they then end up with a certain number at each position.

 

[RayClay]

A) When Wilfork was injured last year, and tubby wasn't ready, Belichick signed Terdell Sands for a couple of weeks.

Why are you making my point? Terdell is huge and a veteran. Is he on the roster? I checked, he's not even in the NFL.

B) When I called Brace a developmental NT, others here indicated that he was a top value DL or Belichick wouldn't have drafted him. Surely if it were just a matter of developing a nose tackle, Belichick could have contented himself with a couple of late rounders.

Again, if teams had a lot of success developing late rounders, he wouldn't have spent a 2. He spent a 2 on a project and probably lost that gamble. If teams could easily develop NTs succesfully they would, it's rare. We were going to go with Rick Lyle as a NT until we were lucky enough to acquire Ted Washington.

I really wonder if I'm speaking English MG, you read what I'm saying and have no idea what I mean. No offense meant, but you seem to get the opposite of the meaning I'm trying to relay.

I don't think they are likely to try to develop a starting DE. They'll keep drafting and acquiring free agents until they get lucky, like they did with Wright. Still, the starters are likely 1st rounders or over the hill vets (we have two more 1st rounders).

Because NT is kind of a unique position, that largley doesn't exist in college they will keep trying to develop one. Until an NT learns the position and proves wiling and able to take the punishmnet, you could have a failure. Same with Wilfork, we could have ended up with a 4-3 tackle on a 3-4 team, making that pick less than successful.

Otherwise the need to pay for the few available and other teams won't let them go most likely, especially with the trend toward 3-4 defenses.

 

[mgteich]

My point was that a develpomental backup NT isn't worth a roster spot. When we need a NT for a couple of games, we can use another veteran that we have, or we can just sign someone off the streets. Both strategies are fine.

Are you suggesting that we need to have an inactive roster position designated for a backup NT, and worse yet one that take a year or two to develop?

Why are you making my point? Terdell is huge and a veteran. Is he on the roster?

 

[RayClay]

My point was that a develpomental backup NT isn't worth a roster spot.

Well, you need to take that up with the front office. You proved we can't just pick someone up with your example of Terdell. We've had a ton of pickups for that spot whose names no one can remember, because none of them could, or were willing to, do the job.

They never have "developed" a DE, they've either showed something, or been cut.

The Front office obviously believes it's worth expending as high as a 2 for a NT project. I happen to agree with their philosophy, but my opinion is worth nothing.

However, if we're talking poster spots, it might come down to their philosophy since they run the team.

 

[mgteich]

We've certainly developed DE's (e.g. LeKevin Smith, Greg Spires) and DT's (Mike Wright).

The reality is that we only need five defensive linemen to cover the possibility of an occasional injury. The sixth can indeed be used for a developmental player. I've always supported have one or two such players. This year we have Price on offense and have the opportunity to keep a developmental defensive lineman.

Personally, I have no problem if the team chooses Weston over Brace, Deaderick, Richard and Love. I also don't see any problem with none of them making the roster, and for the team to sign one of the 600 players to be cut in the next month as the emergency abckup defensive lineman.

Well, you need to take that up with the front office. You proved we can't just pick someone up with your example of Terdell. We've had a ton of pickups for that spot whose names no one can remember, because none of them could, or were willing to, do the job.

They never have "developed" a DE, they've either showed something, or been cut.

The Front office obviously believes it's worth expending as high as a 2 for a NT project. I happen to agree with their philosophy, but my opinion is worth nothing.

However, if we're talking poster spots, it might come down to their philosophy since they run the team.

 

[RayClay]

We've certainly developed DE's (e.g. LeKevin Smith, Greg Spires) and DT's (Mike Wright).

The reality is that we only need five defensive linemen to cover the possibility of an occasional injury. The sixth can indeed be used for a developmental player. I've always supported have one or two such players. This year we have Price on offense and have the opportunity to keep a developmental defensive lineman.

Personally, I have no problem if the team chooses Weston over Brace, Deaderick, Richard and Love. I also don't see any problem with none of them making the roster, and for the team to sign one of the 600 players to be cut in the next month as the emergency abckup defensive lineman.

Mike Wright made it out of camp. He played in 13 games his first year. The other two are on other teams.

Again, if you keep making my points, it's difficult for me to argue with you.

Not that it matters, but Greg Spires isn't even a 3-4 lineman, most likely why he had some success in Tampa. He's a Derrick Burgess.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

That picture of Cody is gross.

 

[crowell33]

We've certainly developed DE's (e.g. LeKevin Smith, Greg Spires) and DT's (Mike Wright).

The reality is that we only need five defensive linemen to cover the possibility of an occasional injury. The sixth can indeed be used for a developmental player. I've always supported have one or two such players. This year we have Price on offense and have the opportunity to keep a developmental defensive lineman.

Personally, I have no problem if the team chooses Weston over Brace, Deaderick, Richard and Love. I also don't see any problem with none of them making the roster, and for the team to sign one of the 600 players to be cut in the next month as the emergency abckup defensive lineman.

Hate to see Weston, Brace, Deaderick and Richard all cut. Just a big blow drafting on the DLine the last 2 years. I'd like to hope that one of the four can make the 53 man roster.

 

[mgteich]

I expect one of the four to make the 53. The best bet at this point is still Brace. The other three could all make the Practice Squad.

With regard effective drafting over the past two years at DL, I would note that Pryor is still here, as well as one other.

I think it reasonable to have a defesive line composed of four veterans and two kids, plus two kids on the Practice Squad.

Hate to see Weston, Brace, Deaderick and Richard all cut. Just a big blow drafting on the DLine the last 2 years. I'd like to hope that one of the four can make the 53 man roster.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Hate to see Weston, Brace, Deaderick and Richard all cut. Just a big blow drafting on the DLine the last 2 years. I'd like to hope that one of the four can make the 53 man roster.

I don't think you will, I don't think Richard will make the team and maybe Brace gets cut if they decide he's a lost cause but I think at least one of Brace/Weston makes the team along with Deaderick. Wilfork, Wright and G.Warren will make it and Pryor probably will too, not so sure about Lewis. At least that is how I see it playing out. I see them keeping 7 DL this year. With no Seymour and no Ty they will want a good rotation and also players with different strengths.

Wilfork
G.Warren
Wright
Pryor
Deaderick
2 of Brace/Weston/Lewis

I'd consider Richard and K.Love long shots.