Green-Ellis - Why or Why Not?

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

I was looking at Green-Ellis' college stats and he is very comparable to Maroney.

In his very few opportunities in the pros, he has looked strong.

Considering those two points, why shouldn't BJGE get his shot to be the guy this season?

Maroney is stumbling and bumbling through another mediocre-to-average camp.

If it helps our team, why not let Green-Ellis carry the ball 20x a game and see what happens?

Isn't that what pre-season is for?

Maroney

@ Minnesota
-Platooned with Marion Barber for two seasons, and Gary Russell for one season
-Gained 3,933 total yards on 660 carries for a 6.0 YPC
-Scored 32 rushing TDs and 1 recieving TD



Green-Ellis

@ Indiana
-Gained 1,732 total yards on 456 carries for a 3.8 YPC
-Scored 12 rushing TDs, had 1 TD recieving

@ Ole Miss (2006, 2007)
-Gained 2,137 yards on 464 carries for a 4.6 YPC
-Scored 12 rushing TDs, had 1 TD recieving

@ Totals
-Gained 3,869 total yards on 920 carries for a 4.2 YPC
-Scored 24 rushing TDs and 2 recieving TD

 

[Sicilian]

I was looking at Green-Ellis' college stats and he is very comparable to Maroney.

I don't call the difference between 6.0 ypc and 4.2 ypc "comparable".

Neither really is the 4.2 ypc in the pros for Maroney vs. the 3.9 for BJGE, especially when you consider it was even lower at 3.7 when Ben had the most carries he's had in a season... a whopping 74.

You've been carrying this torch for a while now. Give it a rest will you?

 

[JackBauer]

Great. Another thread for crapping on Maroney. What a surprise.

 

[sbpatfan]

I don't understand why some people think BGJE is this star that's just waiting for his chance to shine. He's had plenty of chances the last few years and he's sucked. He plays well against fellow JAGs and more often than not fails in critical situations when the team needs him (end zone drops, not converting 4th downs, etc).

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

I don't call the difference between 6.0 ypc and 4.2 ypc "comparable".

Neither really is the 4.2 ypc in the pros for Maroney vs. the 3.9 for BJGE, especially when you consider it was even lower at 3.7 when Ben had the most carries he's had in a season... a whopping 74.

You've been carrying this torch for a while now. Give it a rest will you?

Ellis also was a workhorse back in college, carrying almost twice as much Maroney. Maroney could not break in as the starter in 3 season at Minnesota.

All I wanted here was your reasons why or why not.

And, I really won't be able to "give it a rest" until the Patriots again have a full-time, effective running back.

Believe me, I look forward to that day.

 

[mgteich]

Green-Ellis wasn't used much in 2009, even when two of the other running backs were injured. That is the confidence level the patriots have with Green-Ellis. This is after Green-Ellis looked OK at points in 2008.

I would surprised if Green-Ellis makes the team even if Taylor or Morris are deemed not worthy of a roster spot, or if one retires. If an additional running back is needed, I think that we would sign a free agent as a fourth running back that Belichick would feel comfortable counting on as a backup.

Green-Ellis has value on special teams, but has tough competition for a special team spot. For example, Slater is more valuable as a upfield blocker on the punting unit.

With regard to our starters, give it a rest! Our starters are Maroney/Taylor. We have two as most teams do, as well as a third down back in Faulk. Morris is an able backup to both running back positions. Green-Ellis is an able backup to neither.

 

[Headcase]

All I wanted here was your reasons why or why not.

Because BJGE has been shown, in past years and practice, to be extremely limited in pass receiving and protection. His limited success running the ball in certain situations has not been able to over shadow those deficiencies.

SSDD

 

[JackBauer]

All I wanted here was your reasons why or why not.

Because, up to this point, Green-Ellis has sucked.

The end.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Great. Another thread for crapping on Maroney. What a surprise.

This is not a "crap on Maroney" thread, although I do think he is deserving of as many of those threads as Pats fans can throw out there.

I just want to know why or why not as to whether you think Green-Ellis deserves his shot. Maroney has certainly had his shot.

Forgetting about Maroney for a second, don't you WANT to find an every down, grinder back?

Are you really that happy with the current situation...two old men and bust draft pick?

If BJGE could be the answer, don't you at least want to find that out?

Isn't that what pre-season is for?

 

[sbpatfan]

This is not a "crap on Maroney" thread, although I do think he is deserving of as many of those threads as Pats fans can throw out there.

I just want to know why or why not as to whether you think Green-Ellis deserves his shot. Maroney has certainly had his shot.

Forgetting about Maroney for a second, don't you WANT to find an every down, grinder back?

Are you really that happy with the current situation...two old men and bust draft pick?

If BJGE could be the answer, don't you at least want to find that out?

Isn't that what pre-season is for?

BGJE isn't an unknown, he sucks.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

I don't understand why some people think BGJE is this star that's just waiting for his chance to shine. He's had plenty of chances the last few years and he's sucked. He plays well against fellow JAGs and more often than not fails in critical situations when the team needs him (end zone drops, not converting 4th downs, etc).

Don't get me wrong.

I am not convinced BJGE is the answer, either.

I just know that no one we currently have ahead of him on the depth chart (Maroney, Morris, Taylor) is the answer.

This is not a "crap on Maroney" thread, although I do think he is deserving of as many of those threads as Pats fans can throw out there.

I just want to know why or why not as to whether you think Green-Ellis deserves his shot. Maroney has certainly had his shot.

I mean, as Pats fan, don't you WANT to find an every down, grinder back?

If Green-Ellis COULD be the answer, don't you at least want to find that out?

I know I do. If BenJarvus sucks, then we go back to the mediocre running back by committee crew of Maroney, Morris and Taylor and cut BJGE. BUt at least we'll feel better knowing there is just no solid RB on this roster.

Isn't that what pre-season is for?

 

[JackBauer]

This is not a "crap on Maroney" thread, although I do think he is deserving of as many of those threads as Pats fans can throw out there.

I just want to know why or why not as to whether you think Green-Ellis deserves his shot. Maroney has certainly had his shot.

Forgetting about Maroney for a second, don't you WANT to find an every down, grinder back?

Are you really that happy with the current situation...two old men and bust draft pick?

If BJGE could be the answer, don't you at least want to find that out?

Isn't that what pre-season is for?

1.) I'm happy with RBBC. Apparently, so is BB.

2.) Maroney is not a bust

3.) If you really think so poorly of Maroney, Taylor, and Morris, then what can that possibly say about BJGE, given that he's had plenty of opportunities where he could have seen the field, yet was kept off by the coaching staff. Gosh, I wonder why they're so intent on sequestering this superlative talent.

 

[Reckedtrek]

Why: He's young and most of the other RB are old and/or have histories of getting injured. He's been on the roster two full years so BB has seen something he likes enough to keep him around, and he's not afraid to put his head down and get whatever yards he can get, IE no dancing.

Why not: with a likely 3 TE's this year and as many as 6 WR there may not be room to keep him. This year there are a number of cuts coming league wide and it's expected that a lot of good players will be let go. It's very possible that someone better than him gets cut from another team and then picked up by New England, especially after the first game has passed if that still applies this year.

I like his spirit and willingness to plow into the wall in front of him, but I don't think he's a #1 or #2 back on any team in the NFL. I'll be happy if I'm wrong and he kicks serious butt this year, but until that time... "it is what it is".

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

1.) I'm happy with RBBC. Apparently, so is BB.

2.) Maroney is not a bust

3.) If you really think so poorly of Maroney, Taylor, and Morris, then what can that possibly say about BJGE, given that he's had plenty of opportunities where he could have seen the field, yet was kept off by the coaching staff. Gosh, I wonder why they're so intent on sequestering this superlative talent.

Honestly, Jack, even though we pretty much always disagree, I do respect your analysis and opinions.

So, I am going to give you the respect of answering each of your answers:

#1 - NO COACH likes a RBBC. Not Belichick. Not any other coach. Every coach wants a go-to guy. A RBBC only exists when there is no every down guy.

#2 - I cannot disagree more. He is a 1st round pick who has had a chance to be the big dog in a high-powered offense on a winning team, and yet, he has never distinguished himself. I have long held the contention that he could be groomed to replace Kevin Faulk as the 3rd down/change of pace guy, but he is not a #1 on a top team.

#3 - I find myself watching old NFL films of Corey Dillon and Antowain Smith.

Antowain Smith!

What does THAT tell you?

Antowain was nothing more than average, and Maroney probably has greater natural gifts than Smith had, but at least Antowain made his mark in a strong offense on a good team.
And Dillon was everything as advertised and more.

You're a hard core Pats fan. YOU HAVE TO MISS HAVING A STUD RB! Don't you?

 

[mgteich]

It tells me that you like the nfl of the past where teams had one go-to guy.

Honestly, Jack, even though we pretty much always disagree, I do respect your analysis and opinions.

So, I am going to give you the respect of answering each of your answers:

#1 - NO COACH likes a RBBC. Not Belichick. Not any other coach. Every coach wants a go-to guy. A RBBC only exists when there is no every down guy.

#2 - I cannot disagree more. He is a 1st round pick who has had a chance to be the big dog in a high-powered offense on a winning team, and yet, he has never distinguished himself. I have long held the contention that he could be groomed to replace Kevin Faulk as the 3rd down/change of pace guy, but he is not a #1 on a top team.

#3 - I find myself watching old NFL films of Corey Dillon and Antowain Smith.

Antowain Smith!

What does THAT tell you?

Antowain was nothing more than average, and Maroney probably has greater natural gifts than Smith had, but at least Antowain made his mark in a strong offense on a good team.
And Dillon was everything as advertised and more.

You're a hard core Pats fan. YOU HAVE TO MISS HAVING A STUD RB! Don't you?

 

[stinebot]

On the one hand, BJGE seems to be the Rohan Davey of RBs, with all the "if they only gave him a chance" talk.

That being said, I don't see the fascination with Maroney. Sure, he's cheap because he is on his rookie contract. But when that is up, I do not see him back here.

What I want is a RB that will stop making me wish we had Corey Dillon or Curtis Martin back every time we run the ball. We don't have that now, and I really don't think anyone on the roster currently has much potential to become that guy. So we muddle along with what we have and thank whatever higher power you believe in that we still have Brady and company.

 

[Sicilian]

Ellis also was a workhorse back in college, carrying almost twice as much Maroney.

Again, complete exaggeration. 920 vs. 660 is not "almost twice as many". It's ALMOST 1.5 as many. Still more, but in that time less effective per run and with only 2/3 the number of TDs. Color me unimpressed.

Maroney could not break in as the starter in 3 season at Minnesota.

Marion Barber, who's proved to be a pretty effective back himself, might have had something to do with that.

All I wanted here was your reasons why or why not.

Because Green-Ellis has only shown glimpses of being a good running back when taking on 3rd stringers at the end of preseason games. He's had moments (few and far between) from that one season where everyone was hurt. But even then, he averaged 3.7 ypc, hardly the kind of numbers you'd want for your "full-time effective running back". And speaking of which...

And, I really won't be able to "give it a rest" until the Patriots again have a full-time, effective running back.

Not many teams use one feature back anymore. Even the ones that have effective runners split time. For example, last year the Saints' leader in rush attempts was Mike Bell, averaging only 3.8 ypc. They had Thomas and Bush averaging much higher, but in fewer attempts.

The Steelers won two Super Bowls this decade, once with an effective Willie Parker going full time for 4.8 ypc, then once with a diminished Willie Parker splitting time and averaging 3.8. His partner Moore averaged 4.2.

The teams with one feature back never end up winning anything. Where did Tennessee go with Chris Johnson last year? How do the Vikings fare even with Favre having a career year and Adrian Peterson on the team? How many Super Bowls did Indy win (or even get to) with Edgerrin James?

The game has changed. Does it hurt to have a workhorse feature back, definitely not. But it doesn't seem to make much difference compared to everything else.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

It tells me that you like the nfl of the past where teams had one go-to guy.

LOL! I definitely do!

Has the game passed me by? LOL! Darn, I feel like Don Shula now!

 

[Deus Irae]

...What I want is a RB that will stop making me wish we had Corey Dillon or Curtis Martin back every time we run the ball. We don't have that now, and I really don't think anyone on the roster currently has much potential to become that guy. So we muddle along with what we have and thank whatever higher power you believe in that we still have Brady and company.

Corey Dillon and Curtis Martin are HOF guys, or damned near it. I think it's safe to say that we'd all love someone who could hit that level.

 

[mgteich]

One question is whether it is good enough to have the #12 running offense in the league, when we are a pssing team with a top 3 passing game.

Obviously there is room for upgrade, and we all hope for more in 2011 and 2012. After all, we have zero running backs signed for 2010. But that's fine. I'm comfortable with our TE situation with zero returners. Perhaps that will be the case in 2011 for running bcks, or not.

I would note that there is always room for upgrade, on the patriots at every position except QB and NT.