Outside Linebacker

[jmt57]

Andy Hart and Eric Scalavino discuss the position with the biggest question mark heading into training camp for Patriots Football Weekly.

Official Patriots Football Weekly Blog Blog Archive From the Hart: Role call! — OLB

Hart wonders if TBC can hold up as an every-down player, but has him locked in as one starter. He also thinks Cunningham will overtake Burgess as the other starter early on, with Crable not making the roster. Scalavino also has TBC and Burgess starting to begin the season, with somebody - not sure who - replacing Burgess at some point; he likens the position to RB, with a committee approach for the season.

The only thing I would add at this point would be to replace the term 'starter' with 'most reps', or words to that effect. It may not be unusual for the starter to get half the reps a non-starter does.

 

[JFK]

Re: Olb

I don't believe in Cunningham. At least not this season.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Olb

I think we can expect TBC to play well as one starter. Maybe not as good as last year (or at least not with the numbers), but he should be solid. The other side I expect to be a revolving door depending on situation, gameplan, health, and some wildcards (what kind of players are Ninkovich and Crable really, and how much will we get out of Cunningham as a rookie).

I agree though, that TBC and Burgess are the frontrunners for the two starting positions, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Cunningham earn some time early on passing downs (depending on matchups).

 

[jmt57]

Re: OLB

Rich Perillo profiles Jermaine Cunningham in one of his 'Meet the Rookies' columns on patriots.com

Meet the Rookies: LB Jermaine Cunningham

The biggest question about Cunningham is whether he will be capable of making the switch from playing with his hand on the ground to standing up as a linebacker. To Cunningham it doesn’t matter as he sees the issue simply. When asked which spot he prefers, he had an easy reply.

"Either one," he said. "I’m a football player, so as long as I’m on the field I think everything’s fine."

According to Belichick, Cunningham is a very instinctive player and the coach points out that he has been productive against a high level of competition in the talent-rich SEC.

"The guy’s played against a lot of NFL tackles last year or this year — guys who are or will be playing in the NFL. I think you saw [that] at LSU or Alabama. Andre Smith from two years ago, Michael Oher from Mississippi. We saw him against a lot of good people."

 

[mgteich]

Re: Olb

I believe that OLB is our weakest position. That being said, everyone but Thomas is returning from 2009.

One presumes that Ninkovich (after a year of learning the system) and Cunningham will take the 2009 reps of Thomas. I would also note that Burgess has had a year to learn the system and was looking better toward the end of the year. And yes, Crable could win a roster spot and be in mix.

BOTTOM LINE
The OLB's will likely look very similar to 2009.
The overall defense should be better given improvements at ILB and CB.
Improving on a record of 5th in points scored against may be a difficult task.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Olb

I believe that OLB is our weakest position. That being said, everyone but Thomas is returning from 2009.

One presumes that Ninkovich (after a year of learning the system) and Cunningham will take the 2009 reps of Thomas. I would also note that Burgess has had a year to learn the system and was looking better toward the end of the year. And yes, Crable could win a roster spot and be in mix.

BOTTOM LINE
The OLB's will likely look very similar to 2009.
The overall defense should be better given improvements at ILB and CB.
Improving on a record of 5th in points scored against may be a difficult task.

I agree with your assessment. Though, while improving on a 5th in PA ranking may be tough, I think consistency (playing good D against the good opponents and on the road) would be great, even if the overall numbers look a little lower. I expect the offense to improve this year, so a consistent defense should mean plenty of wins.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Olb

I believe that OLB is our weakest position. That being said, everyone but Thomas is returning from 2009.

One presumes that Ninkovich (after a year of learning the system) and Cunningham will take the 2009 reps of Thomas. I would also note that Burgess has had a year to learn the system and was looking better toward the end of the year. And yes, Crable could win a roster spot and be in mix.

BOTTOM LINE
The OLB's will likely look very similar to 2009.
The overall defense should be better given improvements at ILB and CB.
Improving on a record of 5th in points scored against may be a difficult task.

The OLB position could be better than 2009 for a number of reasons:

- Derrick Burgess was pretty good in December of last year. It seemed his biggest problem was picking up the system and he finally got it down by the end of the season. If he can be the Burgess of December right off the bat, that is a huge upgrade from Burgess from September, October, and November.
- With the addition of Spikes and the return of McKenzie, Gary Guyton may move outside that might be his more natural position. He was the fastest LB in the 2008 draft and was a blitzing specialist in college.
- Cunningham might be a pass rush specialist and be very good at it.

There are no guarantees. But if those three things happen, the OLBs could be a significant improvement from last year. I still think it is the biggest question mark on the team though.

 

[Headcase]

Re: Olb

One presumes that Ninkovich (after a year of learning the system) and Cunningham will take the 2009 reps of Thomas.

I'm still perplexed in what anyone sees in Ninkovich that makes them think he a possible answer?

SSDD

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Olb

I believe that OLB is our weakest position. That being said, everyone but Thomas is returning from 2009.

One presumes that Ninkovich (after a year of learning the system) and Cunningham will take the 2009 reps of Thomas. I would also note that Burgess has had a year to learn the system and was looking better toward the end of the year. And yes, Crable could win a roster spot and be in mix.

BOTTOM LINE
The OLB's will likely look very similar to 2009.
The overall defense should be better given improvements at ILB and CB.
Improving on a record of 5th in points scored against may be a difficult task.

I agree that improving the scoring defense will be difficult. I expect to see some improvements, but in other areas (most notably red zone defense).

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Olb

I'm still perplexed in what anyone sees in Ninkovich that makes them think he a possible answer?

SSDD

No idea. Whenever someone does well in the preseason, people are all over him like this. Personally, in the games where he produced, Eric Alexander and BJGE shined too, which tells you everything you need to know about level of competition since we know what they are (nice role players at best). If Ninkovich can work his way into the OLB rotation in any capacity at all, I'll be pleased with him.

 

[eom]

Re: Olb

I don't think burgess plays olb.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Olb

I don't think burgess plays olb.

He does. He play at OLB in December at times. He plays the McGinest role at times although not extensive. OLB in the 3-4 and DE in the 4-3 and sub packages.

 

[eom]

Re: Olb

he probably plays LE in the 3-4 at least as much, if not more, than OLB.

I doubt he played 10% of his snaps last year at OLB --- that's hardly a 'starter'.


here's the post:

Andy Hart and Eric Scalavino discuss the position with the biggest question mark heading into training camp for Patriots Football Weekly.

Official Patriots Football Weekly Blog Blog Archive From the Hart: Role call! — OLB

Hart wonders if TBC can hold up as an every-down player, but has him locked in as one starter. He also thinks Cunningham will overtake Burgess as the other starter early on, with Crable not making the roster. Scalavino also has TBC and Burgess starting to begin the season, with somebody - not sure who - replacing Burgess at some point; he likens the position to RB, with a committee approach for the season.

The only thing I would add at this point would be to replace the term 'starter' with 'most reps', or words to that effect. It may not be unusual for the starter to get half the reps a non-starter does.

 

[eom]

Re: Olb

He does. He play at OLB in December at times. He plays the McGinest role at times although not extensive. OLB in the 3-4 and DE in the 4-3 and sub packages.

why did you delete that other post about him starting games at OLB, and which games do you think he started at OLB?

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Olb

why did you delete that other post about him starting games at OLB, and which games do you think he started at OLB?

Because you weren't talking to me and I thought you were. I also said "I thought he started a game or two at OLB, but I could be wrong."

 

[patfanken]

Re: Olb

I don't think that people should get caught up in "who is the starter" and who isn't. Given the varied skill sets we have out there, I wouldn't be surprised to see a large number of combinations out there depending on who we are playing and what the match ups are. Different weeks will present different opportunities to the players.

For example when we play the Jets, Pierre Woods should get a chance to shine vs their run game, where I would be surprised to see him play a big roll when we play the Colts.

 

[TheComeback]

Re: Olb

he probably plays LE in the 3-4 at least as much, if not more, than OLB.

I doubt he played 10% of his snaps last year at OLB --- that's hardly a 'starter'.

Burgess played 3-4 DE in about two games last year, where he got blown up on regular basis. The rest of 2009 he was a DE in a 4-man line or at OLB. Don't comment if you have no idea what you're talking about; to say that he didn't spend more than 10% of his snaps at OLB is flat out ridiculous. Belichick himself labeled Burgess as an OLB multiple times.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

Re: Olb

In a way I think OLB will be similar to last year, personnell wise. At least they did finally draft one early with Cunningham, and if Crable shows well in pre-season they almost have to keep him. We know what we have in the other guys.

The biggest difference in the performance of the OLBs is going to be the play of the RDE.

If G. Warren can play to his potential there, and consistantly draw double teams, the OLBs will be able to make plays. If noone steps up at RDE it will be a long frustating year for the OLBs AND us as fans.

 

[eagle eye]

Re: Olb

I'm gonna say it again for those who don't believe in Cunningham. He is the guy that everyone will be saying he is ok. Then in about 3 years time, the pundits will suddenly realise just how good he is and he will suddenly be rated in the top 7/8 OLBs.

I think he will be sharing time with TBC and Burgess who I expect to be the starters but as the season goes on he will wrestle a starting spot from one of them.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Olb

Burgess played 3-4 DE in about two games last year, where he got blown up on regular basis. The rest of 2009 he was a DE in a 4-man line or at OLB. Don't comment if you have no idea what you're talking about; to say that he didn't spend more than 10% of his snaps at OLB is flat out ridiculous. Belichick himself labeled Burgess as an OLB multiple times.

He didn't.
He is considered an OLB because that is where he would play in the base D.
Those players also align as DE in the sub packages.
95% of the snaps Burgess played were at DE in the sub packages.
Since McGinest, Vrabel, Colvin, etc did the same thing in sub packages, there is no need to label him a DE.
He is an OLB. However he is not a capable 34 OLB so he does not get on the field in the base D.