CHFF: NFLs 10 Greatest Coaches

[TimU]

These guys have BB as #9 all time. Its a bit lower than I might have expected. However these guys have a deep knowledge of NFL history, and it is hard to argue that BB clearly ranks ahead of these other legends.

Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Lords of the Rings: the NFL's 10 greatest coaches

 

[NEGoldenAge]

These guys have BB as #9 all time. Its a bit lower than I might have expected. However these guys have a deep knowledge of NFL history, and it is hard to argue that BB clearly ranks ahead of these other legends.

Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Lords of the Rings: the NFL's 10 greatest coaches

The numbers alone clearly put BB ahead of most of those listed. Combine that all the hats that a modern coach has to wear, and the extent to which BB has influenced the game and it's organizations, and it is clear that BB is top 3.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The numbers alone clearly put BB ahead of most of those listed. Combine that all the hats that a modern coach has to wear, and the extent to which BB has influenced the game and it's organizations, and it is clear that BB is top 3.

While I agree that Brown, Halas, Lambeau and Lombardi are great coaches and deserve to be on the list, I think a couple of factors need to be looked at which would alter the list.

1. Super Bowl Era- Expanded competition, more reg season and playoff games.
2. Free Agency/Salary Cap Era- Harder to keep good teams together.

With that said, Tuna and Jimmy Johnson must be included. Their ability to use the draft and FA to rebuild franchises (although you could say that JJ was a bit burnt out in MIA) and win SBs and consistently make the playoffs at same time a tremendous accomplishment.

 

[stinkypete]

The numbers alone clearly put BB ahead of most of those listed. Combine that all the hats that a modern coach has to wear, and the extent to which BB has influenced the game and it's organizations, and it is clear that BB is top 3.

I don't know. All homerism aside, it's tough to argue with the bulk numbers of Shula, Noll, Landry and Halas. Once Belichick reaches 200 career wins (should happen in 2014) or wins another Super Bowl or two, then he should rise up that list.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The numbers alone clearly put BB ahead of most of those listed. Combine that all the hats that a modern coach has to wear, and the extent to which BB has influenced the game and it's organizations, and it is clear that BB is top 3.

Except that for all his blather about removing emotion from equations, Kerry is at heart a disgruntled Pats fan who increasingly can't...and he manifests that by liberally weaving subjective opinion (like pointed criticism of the coach whose team entered SB 42 18-0 on the thereafter apparently worthless season) into his statistical analysis to create pieces that will appeal to his now national audience.

Bill should be well above Shula and Landry by all measures. The true founding giants and innovators of the league would be a tougher case to make although as with players it's difficult to effectively compare apples and oranges in terms of the competitiveness of the times.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I don't know. All homerism aside, it's tough to argue with the bulk numbers of Shula, Noll, Landry and Halas. Once Belichick reaches 200 career wins (should happen in 2014) or wins another Super Bowl or two, then he should rise up that list.

Shula had just 2 superbowl wins in over 30 years of being a head coach... and both wins were early 70s. Shula was excellent at building teams that thrived in the regular season. Post season.... not so much.

 

[the wrothbroughterer]

When he gets to 200 wins he'll probably crack the top 5. With 148 right now the earliest he could get there is 2014 assuming there is no work stoppage and about 10+ wins per season. He's really close to being the All-Time Playoff Wins leader for coaches, hopefully he knocks that one off the to-do list by 2012.

Over the next 5 years a lot could happen of course that could swing him either way. He could win a few Super Bowls and probably be a top 3 coach ever, or we could just collapse into irrelevance and stays in the back end of the top 10. Hopefully the former.

 

[BradyManny]

(like pointed criticism of the coach whose team entered SB 42 18-0 on the thereafter apparently worthless season).

The perception of the 2007 season makes me want to vomit. Everything that the team achieved has apparently - as you say - been rendered worthless by one hail mary pass.

BS, I say. A 16-0 season on the resume looks good no matter how it ended.

I still maintain, that if Belichick & Brady win another ring or two, in time, the SB42 loss will be forgotten. 16-0 will be lumped in with the rest of the accomplishments. That said, they must win another ring for that to happen.

 

[BradyManny]

He’s also the architect of the only 16-0 season in NFL history, though the quest for history went down in the fiery Hindenburg of defeat for Belichick called Super Bowl XLII, one of the great choke jobs in the history of football. With a win that day, Belichick would be somehwere in the top five coaches today. So it was a epic loss and, so far, his organization has never quite recovered.

I still don't know how one could refer to SB42 as a chokejob for anyone other than the 11 guys playing defense on the field that day.

The offense had them in position to win the game with 150 seconds left.

Rodney Harrison, Brandon Meriweather, Asante Samuel all dropped interceptions.

Asante Samuel left Tyree to go try and be a hero.

James Sanders watched idly as Harrison couldn't stop Tyree from making the play. Harrison himself probably could've done a better job knocking the ball loose in hindsight.

Seymour, Green, Thomas, just about everybody and their mother had a shot at Manning on that play and didn't capitalize.

How the heck can you blame that loss on Belichick?!? Other than the asinine 4th & 13 call - which also falls on McDaniel's shoulders - I don't see how BB gets any blame for that game. We had that game in our grasp, and let it go b/c of the play on the field.

 

[TrueBeliever]

While I agree that Brown, Halas, Lambeau and Lombardi are great coaches and deserve to be on the list, I think a couple of factors need to be looked at which would alter the list.

1. Super Bowl Era- Expanded competition, more reg season and playoff games.
2. Free Agency/Salary Cap Era- Harder to keep good teams together.

With that said, Tuna and Jimmy Johnson must be included. Their ability to use the draft and FA to rebuild franchises (although you could say that JJ was a bit burnt out in MIA) and win SBs and consistently make the playoffs at same time a tremendous accomplishment.

A couple thoughts:

First, after we won SB 39, some people from across the football spectrum were calling for the Lombardi Trophy to be renamed after Belichick, or have his name added (i.e., the Lombardi-Belichick Trophy.) I'm not sure how I feel about that, but I took offense a bit when a Wisconsin sportswriter wrote a column about how when all was said and done Lombardi was still the far superior of the two.

I wrote to the guy saying that while no one argues with Lombardi's accomplishments, it's hard to compare him with Belichick, since each won titles in very different eras. I rattled off pretty much all the same stuff you listed above. The game is so different today. Lombardi thrived on the "three yards and a cloud of dust" mentality; today that would get you nowhere. I remember when Packer fans, writers, etc. made such a big deal of it when Brett Favre surpassed Bart Starr as the Packers' all-time leading passer; but what the rest of us kept pointing out was that when Starr played teams only passed about half as often. You just can't compare these eras arbitrarily.

Second, you mentioned Jimmy Johnson falling down the list from his dismal stint in Miami. A lot of people also think George Siefert (sp?) should be in Canton, but won't get there because his career ended with that disastrous 1-15 season in Carolina.

 

[WelshPat]

I hate this list.

They are all great coaches, but when 4 of the top 5 coaches all coached between 1920-1970, i think there's some "We know more than you" in it.

We never saw those guys coach, so its impossible for us to really argue against them. It's like when someone ranks Johnny U as the best QB ever, i just go "Urgh".

People tend to look back at the past with rose tinted glasses.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I hate this list.

They are all great coaches, but when 4 of the top 5 coaches all coached between 1920-1970, i think there's some "We know more than you" in it.

We never saw those guys coach, so its impossible for us to really argue against them. It's like when someone ranks Johnny U as the best QB ever, i just go "Urgh".

People tend to look back at the past with rose tinted glasses.

Actually, no matter what they think they know, the numbers attached prove them wrong. From this list, Earl "Curly" Lambeau had a 3-2 post season record, yet has 6 championship, and Halas had 6 championships with a 6-3 post season record. Winning championships then was no where near as difficult as it is today.

 

[ALP]

i would not put shula or landry above him, but the rest really is a good argument either way

 

[efin98]

I hate this list.

They are all great coaches, but when 4 of the top 5 coaches all coached between 1920-1970, i think there's some "We know more than you" in it.

We never saw those guys coach, so its impossible for us to really argue against them. It's like when someone ranks Johnny U as the best QB ever, i just go "Urgh".

People tend to look back at the past with rose tinted glasses.

Hell most of them played together or coached under one another.

Shula played for Brown in Cleveland, Noll played under Brown in Cleveland and coached under Shula in Baltimore, Lombardi and Landry coached together in New York, Walsh coached under Brown in Cincinnati.

 

[efin98]

Actually, no matter what they think they know, the numbers attached prove them wrong. From this list, Earl "Curly" Lambeau had a 3-2 post season record, yet has 6 championship, and Halas had 6 championships with a 6-3 post season record. Winning championships then was no where near as difficult as it is today.

'21 and '32 championships for Halas and the '29-'31 championships for Lambeau were won before they instituted a championship game, the best regular season record won the championship.

After the title game was instituted, Halas won the '33, '40, '41, '46, and '63 games and lost the '34, '37, '50 games plus a one game playoff for the division title in '41. Lambeau won the '36, '39, and '44 games and lost the '38 title game and the '41 division title playoff game.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Second, you mentioned Jimmy Johnson falling down the list from his dismal stint in Miami. A lot of people also think George Siefert (sp?) should be in Canton, but won't get there because his career ended with that disastrous 1-15 season in Carolina.

I put Seifert in the same category as Tom Flores, Marv Levy and even Joe Gibbs. All very good coaches who had either the talent already there for them or had great personnel people shop for the groceries.

 

[jmt57]

Comparing position players from different eras is difficult at best, because the stats vary due to the ways the game has changed. Comparing coaches from different eras might be even more difficult.

Many people seem to divide NFL history in two: the Super Bowl era, and the pre-merger era. To me there's no real distinct change that took place then though. In my opinion there are three eras: the early or 'pre-modern' years when the passing game was almost non-existant; the advent of the 'modern' era of football (which is incorrectly defined by some as being post-merger) when teams started passing the ball after the end of World War II, and the salary cap era, which began in 1994.

I don't think Belichick gets enough credit for what he has done considering the constraints of free agency and the salary cap when he is compared to coaches like Noll, Shula or Lombardi - just like quarterbacks like Unitas and Baugh do not get enough credit for what they did when their stats are compared against quarterbacks that have played in the last ten or twenty years.

 

[TrueBeliever]

I put Seifert in the same category as Tom Flores, Marv Levy and even Joe Gibbs. All very good coaches who had either the talent already there for them or had great personnel people shop for the groceries.

Good point. Actually when I say "a lot of people", I was really only referring to one of those NFL Network "Top 10" shows, this one (obviously) about players and coaches not in the HOF. To be honest, I don't even recall if he was on the actual list or was in the "Best of the Rest" category.

 

[TrueBeliever]

'21 and '32 championships for Halas and the '29-'31 championships for Lambeau were won before they instituted a championship game, the best regular season record won the championship.

Another little fact I like to remind arrogant Packer fans about... they brag about how the Pack won the most championships in league history, to which I answer 1/4 of them were before they even played a championship game, and all but three of them were before the Super Bowl era.

 

[efin98]

Another little fact I like to remind arrogant Packer fans about... they brag about how the Pack won the most championships in league history, to which I answer 1/4 of them were before they even played a championship game, and all but three of them were before the Super Bowl era.

They have the right to argue though, they still have more championships without the pre-championship game championships.