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OT: Gosselin "Tony Romo among the NFL's All-Time Elite Great QBs"


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If anyone has a legit argument to why QB stats mean squat except for personal and public respect its Dan Marino

Marino would give up all of those awesome records and stats for ONE Super Bowl ring.....He may go down forever as the best QB in NFL History to never win the BIG one and it was not him to blame,it was failure to gather a defense capable of shutting down thier opponents to which the Dolphins F.O. could not do for a decade + of Marino's greatness.

Dan Fouts was another guy you could say was unfortunate.

Now we shall see if Romo becomes another unfortunate QB in 10 years to join those 2.

In 1984, The Dolphins defense was the #7 scoring defense in the league. It was 12th in 1985. It was 4th in 1990 and 11th in 1992. The lack of a defense is an often overblown argument when it comes to Marino's failure to get a ring. Here are the scores in the losses of those years:

38-16
31-14
44-34
29-10

Marino threw 2 interceptions in each of those losses, and only the Buffalo game in 1990 had the Dolphins put up any real amount of points.
 
This is EXACTLY why someone came up with the phrase: "There are Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics"!

Romo...puh-Leeze
 
In 1984, The Dolphins defense was the #7 scoring defense in the league. It was 12th in 1985. It was 4th in 1990 and 11th in 1992. The lack of a defense is an often overblown argument when it comes to Marino's failure to get a ring. Here are the scores in the losses of those years:

38-16
31-14
44-34
29-10

Marino threw 2 interceptions in each of those losses, and only the Buffalo game in 1990 had the Dolphins put up any real amount of points.

If you look at Marinos #s in each playoff loss, they add up to awful.
Its a double edged sword. Marino gets credit for 'carrying ' the team, while the running game was ignored and the defense on the field a lot, yet when they lose in the playoffs, everyone wants to give him none of the blame.
If you set your team up to rely so heavily on one player, he shouldnt get excess credit for being relied upon when success and no blame when unsuccessful.
If Miami ran the ball a lot, protected their D with ball control, they would have probably had the same level of success, and possibly won a ring, but Marino wouldn't be looked as the stat machine he is.
 
If you look at Marinos #s in each playoff loss, they add up to awful.
Its a double edged sword. Marino gets credit for 'carrying ' the team, while the running game was ignored and the defense on the field a lot, yet when they lose in the playoffs, everyone wants to give him none of the blame.
.

Marino won more than one playoff game in a year ONCE in his career, compared to Brady's 5 times, Montana's 5 and Peyton's 3, Favre 3,
 
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Romo is a good QB but to even mention him anywhere ahead of Manning,Montana,Warner and Brady seems strange and absurd to me,Gosselin finds out that some stats have him ranked above these HOF or future HOF QBs.

Analysis: Romo among all-time elite QBs | shreveporttimes.com | Shreveport Times

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That really is an absurd article. Here's a list of QB's I'd prefer on the Patriots than Tony Romo.

01. Tom Brady
02. Drew Brees
03. Peyton Manning
04. Aaron Rogers
05. Phillip Rivers
06. Ben Roethlisberger
07. Donovan McNabb
08. Matt Ryan
09. Joe Flacco
10. Carson Palmer

Elite really is a special class. For mine the elite class would be the top 3, possibly top 5 in a position. To make a comment in terms of being elite in an all time sense is just baffling.
 
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Romo is a good QB but to even mention him anywhere ahead of Manning,Montana,Warner and Brady seems strange and absurd to me,Gosselin finds out that some stats have him ranked above these HOF or future HOF QBs.

Analysis: Romo among all-time elite QBs | shreveporttimes.com | Shreveport Times

This is actually a pretty good piece. The point of the article is to "dis" the QB stats after he introduces them. (The only thing I can figure when he cites Romo as "third most efficient" is that his Yards per Completion and TD's per attempt numbers are higher than Peyton's, Brady's and others, giving him a ever so slightly higher Pass Rating, for whatever that's worth.)

But, in the end, his point is to highlight the lack of a correlation between having the best passing attack and winning the SB. He acknowledges that, while Romo might have a great stats year in 2010 with the Cowboys' personnel, such an accomplishment doesn't guarantee that the Cowboys will be playing a Home SB in February.

Basically, he's making the point that many of us on this board have made for years in the "Joe vs. Dan" and "Peyton vs. Tommy" arguments: it's all about the bling and not about the stats. He even lets Tony have the final word:

"At the end of the day, winning is what counts at my position," Romo said Wednesday before a promotional appearance for Starter apparel at an Arlington Wal-Mart. "As I get older, it doesn't matter to me if I throw for 100 yards a game or 400 if we win. You're a far better quarterback when you throw for 150 yards and win than when you throw for 320 and lose. Stats are just stats."

That sounds like the 2001, 2003 and 2004 Patriots to me.
 
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This is actually a pretty good piece. The point of the article is to "dis" the QB stats after he introduces them. (The only thing I can figure when he cites Romo as "third most efficient" is that his Yards per Completion and TD's per attempt numbers are higher than Peyton's, Brady's and others, giving him a ever so slightly higher Pass Rating, for whatever that's worth.)

But, in the end, his point is to highlight the lack of a correlation between having the best passing attack and winning the SB. He acknowledges that, while Romo might have a great stats year in 2010 with the Cowboys' personnel, such an accomplishment doesn't guarantee that the Cowboys will be playing a Home SB in February.

Basically, he's making the point that many of us on this board have made for years in the "Joe vs. Dan" and "Peyton vs. Tommy" arguments: it's all about the bling and not about the stats. He even lets Tony have the final word:

"At the end of the day, winning is what counts at my position," Romo said Wednesday before a promotional appearance for Starter apparel at an Arlington Wal-Mart. "As I get older, it doesn't matter to me if I throw for 100 yards a game or 400 if we win. You're a far better quarterback when you throw for 150 yards and win than when you throw for 320 and lose. Stats are just stats."

That sounds like the 2001, 2003 and 2004 Patriots to me.

That wasn't his point, it was (to his credit) Romo's.

I think the problem in assessing elite is the media changes the definition of what elite is to suit it's mood at any given time or allow it to dicate to the rest of us based on relationships. Guys who make their jobs easier always get an edge in the nods department.

An elite QB should be someone who both passes the stats test and wins. A HOF caliber career by all measures. The media needs to get over it's need to crown guys incrementally based on momentary snapshots. Guys like Manning and Brady who have consistently performed at a high level over an extended period of time and have the hardware that really matters (and in particular a Lombardi or three not to mention a record or two) are elite.

After last year Brees is legitimately knocking on the door to be #3 among present day elite
QB's. Ben is still a tick below that even with 2 Lombardi's because of his maddening inconsistency and the fact that they won the first one almost in spite of him. Ditto Favre in his dotage surrounded by talent. He'll be a first ballot HOF'er based mostly on longevity
based stats following an early Lombardi and because he's a commanding character.

Warner was a prolific passer when all the planets were aligned right and he won a ring and they will probably enshrine him based on longevity too although he was a journeyman backup for a good chunk of his career whose great good fortune was backing up a draft bust on his personal back nine. McNabb IMO isn't even in the enshrinement conversation anymore unless he accomplishes something really big in DC like actually getting to a personal second superbowl.

Nobody else is legitimately in the discussion just yet no matter how badly the media keeps wanting them to be. Rivers, Eli, Palmer, Romo, Ryan, Rogers and even Schaub or, I suppose although I doubt it Cutler, each have a shot at yet emerging as elite by the time their careers wind down in another several seasons or more, but they could all just as likely end up the inigmatic shooting stars like Jake Delhomme that mediots just get hung up on like schoolgirls. The Derek Anderson one year hype driven pro bowl talents of the world...like so many mediots were convinced Brady was in 2001 until he emphatically proved them wrong.

Romo hasn't done a thing in Dallas yet. That may not be entirely his fault, and the same could be said for all of the above, but then again he's a gunslinger by nature and he hasn't yet shown he's willing to consistently discipline or extend himself and in the process consistently elevate his generally quite talented teamates performances. And the same can be said for most of the above.
 
Very sloppy work by Gosselin. Perhaps it was his last piece on the way out the door for vacation.

I wouldn't assume the headline reflects his opinion.

And the article itself didn't seem that bad.
 
As we have seen before, the biggest problem with the article is not the column itself; it is the title. The title would lead you to believe that Gosselin goes on to give you his opinion that Romo is one of the very best quarterbacks of all time, but that is not the case at all. A better title might have been something like "Tony Romo: stats versus rings", but that would not have generated nearly as much interest.

Other than the title, the only problem I have with the actual column is that Gosselin never defined what the "third most efficient" quarterback is. He mentions having enough pass attempts to qualify for the all time NFL leader board, but he never says exactly what the ranking is that he is referring to. As a result, that leaves many readers to reach the conclusion that it is his opinion that Romo is the third best QB in NFL history, rather than pointing out that Romo now ranks third all time in some category.

All the column really says is that Romo ranks high in some alltime NFL passing categories, which means he might be in a position to break some records based on the skill players around him - but winning a championship is more important than stats.
 
My suspicions have been confirmed: if only Brady had thrown a few less touchdowns in 2007, David Tyree would've dropped that pass.
 
As we have seen before, the biggest problem with the article is not the column itself; it is the title. The title would lead you to believe that Gosselin goes on to give you his opinion that Romo is one of the very best quarterbacks of all time, but that is not the case at all. A better title might have been something like "Tony Romo: stats versus rings", but that would not have generated nearly as much interest.

Other than the title, the only problem I have with the actual column is that Gosselin never defined what the "third most efficient" quarterback is. He mentions having enough pass attempts to qualify for the all time NFL leader board, but he never says exactly what the ranking is that he is referring to. As a result, that leaves many readers to reach the conclusion that it is his opinion that Romo is the third best QB in NFL history, rather than pointing out that Romo now ranks third all time in some category.

All the column really says is that Romo ranks high in some alltime NFL passing categories, which means he might be in a position to break some records based on the skill players around him - but winning a championship is more important than stats.

I disagree. He may not have written the headline, but he clearly wrote glowingly about Romo's apparently mind numbing accomplishments (a pro bowl as a first year starter and two individual team records in just 3 full seasons) and the fact that we haven't yet seen his best...which intimates he believes he is clearly even better than his performances to date would indicate. Pure speculation about a guy who has been all over the place from season to season and even within seasons. And entirely based on a small sample size. Again, it's demonstrating consistent excellence over a long span of time that makes a player elite. Romo's career as an NFL QB is likely half over because of it's late start...even assuming he plays into his late 30's. Are we to assume he will only improve with age extending into his late 30's even though we are continuously reminded on the Brady front that at age 32 he's well on his way to the back nine career wise and we can't assume he will remain relevant past his mid 30's because so few QB's have...

When you consider how many QB's randomly put up previously rare passing stats in the wake of the Polian emphasis of 2005...it puts a lot of this kind of blather in context.
 
Gosselin is normally one of the most reliable, level-headed footbal writers out there.

This, however, is an absurd piece of 'journalism'.

Its not clear to me exactly how he determines 'QB efficiency' - its just a bunch of hyperbole to keep the Cowboys fans happy in the offseason.

Why bother reading "journalism" when you can sound smugly above such nonsense? But wait, I think that's called 'ignorance,' but who am I point out the obvious?

Do any 'journalism' haters actually have an original thought? yeesh....
 
That really is an absurd article. Here's a list of QB's I'd prefer on the Patriots than Tony Romo.

01. Tom Brady
02. Drew Brees
03. Peyton Manning
04. Aaron Rogers
05. Phillip Rivers
06. Ben Roethlisberger
07. Donovan McNabb
08. Matt Ryan
09. Joe Flacco
10. Carson Palmer

Elite really is a special class. For mine the elite class would be the top 3, possibly top 5 in a position. To make a comment in terms of being elite in an all time sense is just baffling.

Matt Ryan? Show me the numbers
Rivers? Um, can't win the big one can he?
Aaron Rogers? See above
McNabb? I love the dude, but Romo lovers can point to McNabb's failure in the biggest games also
Flacco? Someday, maybe
Palmer? His day has come and gone

Romo has acted like total whack job at times, and he has folded like a damp napkin in a couple big games. But Romo haters better hope he doesn't acquire some of TB's shut-up-and-play mindset because then Romo might just pull off a couple of big ones.
 
Matt Ryan? Show me the numbers
Rivers? Um, can't win the big one can he?
Aaron Rogers? See above
McNabb? I love the dude, but Romo lovers can point to McNabb's failure in the biggest games also
Flacco? Someday, maybe
Palmer? His day has come and gone

Romo has acted like total whack job at times, and he has folded like a damp napkin in a couple big games. But Romo haters better hope he doesn't acquire some of TB's shut-up-and-play mindset because then Romo might just pull off a couple of big ones.

Sure he might...but I wouldn't hold my breath because at 30 he hasn't managed to develop an iota of Brady's mindset.
 
That wasn't his point, it was (to his credit) Romo's.

I think the problem in assessing elite is the media changes the definition of what elite is to suit it's mood at any given time or allow it to dicate to the rest of us based on relationships. Guys who make their jobs easier always get an edge in the nods department.

An elite QB should be someone who both passes the stats test and wins. A HOF caliber career by all measures. The media needs to get over it's need to crown guys incrementally based on momentary snapshots. Guys like Manning and Brady who have consistently performed at a high level over an extended period of time and have the hardware that really matters (and in particular a Lombardi or three not to mention a record or two) are elite.

After last year Brees is legitimately knocking on the door to be #3 among present day elite
QB's. Ben is still a tick below that even with 2 Lombardi's because of his maddening inconsistency and the fact that they won the first one almost in spite of him. Ditto Favre in his dotage surrounded by talent. He'll be a first ballot HOF'er based mostly on longevity
based stats following an early Lombardi and because he's a commanding character.

Warner was a prolific passer when all the planets were aligned right and he won a ring and they will probably enshrine him based on longevity too although he was a journeyman backup for a good chunk of his career whose great good fortune was backing up a draft bust on his personal back nine. McNabb IMO isn't even in the enshrinement conversation anymore unless he accomplishes something really big in DC like actually getting to a personal second superbowl.

Nobody else is legitimately in the discussion just yet no matter how badly the media keeps wanting them to be. Rivers, Eli, Palmer, Romo, Ryan, Rogers and even Schaub or, I suppose although I doubt it Cutler, each have a shot at yet emerging as elite by the time their careers wind down in another several seasons or more, but they could all just as likely end up the inigmatic shooting stars like Jake Delhomme that mediots just get hung up on like schoolgirls. The Derek Anderson one year hype driven pro bowl talents of the world...like so many mediots were convinced Brady was in 2001 until he emphatically proved them wrong.

Romo hasn't done a thing in Dallas yet. That may not be entirely his fault, and the same could be said for all of the above, but then again he's a gunslinger by nature and he hasn't yet shown he's willing to consistently discipline or extend himself and in the process consistently elevate his generally quite talented teamates performances. And the same can be said for most of the above.

Basically agree re the piece, but I do think the Headline Writer went well beyond what Gosselin actually emphasizes.

Agree too on your criteria for an elite QB.

Brees is knocking on the door of the "elite room," but it's sometimes easy to forget that he's been in the league only one year less than TB and has started only six fewer games. He'll turn 32 in January, so, by the odds, he has three to five seasons to pull an Elway with championships at the end of a long and productive career. Another argument for no work stoppage next year IMO. And another argument for why Tommy and Peyton are so great.

Completely agree on Big Ben. The guy's inconsistency is maddening and I kind of think of him (on field) like I thought about Phil Mickelson a few years ago, his own worst enemy and always ready to self destruct. If he had a career ending injury in his first game back, I don't see him in Canton.

Warner's right on my HOF bubble line. Tough to put him in and tough to keep him out. Taking two different teams to an SB definitely weighs heavily in his favor, but all of those so-so years work against him. If he goes in, it will be hard to keep Donovan out, though I don't think he belongs.

I think you're a little tough on Lord Favregaard. I'd have put him in the HOF well before the Packers brought in Rodgers and the subsequent retirement nonsense. I think of longevity arguments as the kind of stuff that comes out of the camp of someone like Testaverde.

Agree on the rest. I now openly tell my Giant fan friends down here that I'm going to think of Eli's 2007 late and post season run as a fluke until he proves otherwise. Surprisingly, I don't get much of an argument from most of them.
 
Romo is a good QB, Cowboys found a gem of a UDFA, but they did NOT find an elite QB!

This article is like the 'Ryan is best coach in NFL' - we should ignore it :)
 
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