Early Roster Projections Reiss v. Breer

[Patsfanin Philly]

Reading Mike Reiss' blog this morning and noticed this item,

New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

>>>>10. When thinking about the roster battles ahead in Patriots training camp, one question is how many spots will go to those who are top special teams players but don’t project to make big contributions on offense or defense. Sam Aiken, Matthew Slater, Marques Murrell and Bret Lockett are top players who fall into that category. I think all four would be on the club if making a roster projection today.>>>>>




I compared that to Breer's and he has none of those 4 making the team unless I read it wrong, even after two cups of coffee. I think that the final result will likely be somewhere in the middle, otherwise who do you cut to find those 4 spots for primarily STers?



Breer
Still-too-early 53-man roster projection - Extra Points - Boston.com


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[PatsFan37]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

Breer has Kyle Arrington making it as a special teamer. Given that safety is a strength of the team and OLB is a weakness, someone like Murell might make the team instead if he shows up as a half-decent OLB. OTOH, Wheatley has come to play and Wilhite was a starter, so Arrington might be gone for other reasons.

Breer has 10 OL not counting Mankins. The team has carried 9 in the past. So there might be a spot there.

Slater, as a KR, has an uphill battle. A lot of competition there. And they keep moving Slater around to try to find an offensive or defensive position for him. While versatility is good, it's better when you can't be a starter to win the competition to be first off the bench.

Overall, I think it depends on how the rookies and near-rookies who are most likely to make the team (Price, McCourty, etc.) look on STs, that may determine if the coaches feel comfortable cutting a veteran ST player like Aiken or Murell in favor of a position player who either has more potential or plays a weaker position.

 

[Ryan]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

I really don't see how all 4 of those guys make the team. Honestly, it sounds pretty stupid to me.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

I really don't see how all 4 of those guys make the team. Honestly, it sounds pretty stupid to me.

I like Reiss and won't even click on any Breer link for any reason, however if any of those four make the team it is cause for alarm.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

Slater, as a KR, has an uphill battle.

He usually looks like he's running uphill.

He has no position and is not going to run kicks, unless we really screwed up with the current youngsters, so he needs to be head and shoulders above anyone else on teams to stick.

 

[DarrylS]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

He usually looks like he's running uphill.

He has no position and is not going to run kicks, unless we really screwed up with the current youngsters, so he needs to be head and shoulders above anyone else on teams to stick.

But his father played in the NFL...

 

[mgteich]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

BREER'S LAST FIVE
6th WR, 5th RB, 7th DL, 5th OLB and Arrington
(Breer also has Welch as the long snapper instead of Ingram which isn't really relevant to this discussion)

REISS PRESUMED LAST FIVE
Aiken, Slater, Lockett, Murrell and Arrington or Wheatley (with Welker on PUP)
=============================================
AS OF NOW, I would have Welker on PUP and as Reiss suggests consider using all 5 remaining positions for special team only players. As of now, I would want to have a 5th real CB (Wheatley at the moment).

So, I also want the last four positions to be used for special teams. Today, I might chose Aiken, Slater, Arrington and Woods as my four. Many here have Woods beaten out for his OLB position, so I have kept him as special teamer instead of as an OLB.
===================================================

ANALYSIS - A BASE 48 MAN ROSTER

As always the key to this roster situation is how you list positions. Let's start with a base 48 man roster without special teamers or developmental players as Reiss might do. We will then need to make decisions regard the last five positions. Reiss gives four of the five to special teamers (probably four plus Wheately).

OFFENSE (23)
QB 2
RB 4
WR 5 (with Welker on PUP)
TE 3
OL 9 (long snapper should listed with specialists no matter who gets the job)

DEFENSE (22)
DL 6
OLB 4
ILB 4 (we will not be cutting any of the four we have)
CB 4
S 4

SPECIALISTS (3)
K 1
P 1
LS 1

 

[mgteich]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

Repaet after me
Slater has never made the 53-man squad as a kick returner, never. He is a special teams defender and blocker, one of the best we have. I's say our best are Aiken, Slater, Arrington, and Woods. Some might include Meriweather, Sanders, McGowan and Guyton.

He usually looks like he's running uphill.

He has no position and is not going to run kicks, unless we really screwed up with the current youngsters, so he needs to be head and shoulders above anyone else on teams to stick.

 

[Lamanai]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

He usually looks like he's running uphill.

He has no position and is not going to run kicks, unless we really screwed up with the current youngsters, so he needs to be head and shoulders above anyone else on teams to stick.

He hasn't really done much returning kicks, but i've noticed him really excelling as the up back for the returner. Don't underestimate the less noticable roles on Special Teams. If I am not mistaken, Slater has been a starter on all six ST units. So he has someone's confidence.

On the other hand, he may find serious competition with the addition of Arrington, McCourty and other rookies.

My guess is Slater is a late cut. But not by as much as mnay people think.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

As with other aspects of the game, Belichick usually chooses to have at least some seasoned veterans in starting roles, even on Special Teams. Aiken, Woods and Slater certainly qualify on special teams.

He hasn't really done much returning kicks, but i've noticed him really excelling as the up back for the returner. Don't underestimate the less noticable roles on Special Teams. If I am not mistaken, Slater has been a starter on all six ST units. So he has someone's confidence.

On the other hand, he may find serious competition with the addition of Arrington, McCourty and other rookies.

My guess is Slater is a late cut. But not by as much as mnay people think.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

Repaet after me
Slater has never made the 53-man squad as a kick returner, never. He is a special teams defender and blocker, one of the best we have. I's say our best are Aiken, Slater, Arrington, and Woods. Some might include Meriweather, Sanders, McGowan and Guyton.

You need to read what I was responding to. I agree with you that he's awful as a kick returner and I throw in that he has no position value.

I further stated this

he needs to be head and shoulders above anyone else on teams to stick

Obviously, he's valuable on STs, or we wouldn't be talking about him. Is he so much better that he can hold a roster spot in the tightest camp we've seen? we'll see. Lot's of young players need to make their bones and special teams is a way.

I love it, by the way.

Johnny Rembert, my special teams favorite turned all pro. Rod McSwain was a decent corner that fought his way on.

Troy Brown.

In my opinion, we've lost something with this permanent specialist class and I'd love to see some bare knuckle competition for the last spots with backup/ST players.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

I like Reiss a lot, but I don't see how this is possible. Aiken, Slater, maybe Arrington make the team.

You just can't add nearly 25 rookies to the roster in a two year span and not ask them to play ST. There's only so many roster spots.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

You list three special teamer. Reiss lists four. That's NOTa huge difference.
I also list four: your three plus Woods, although Murrell could indeed beat him out for a roster spot.

Basically, we are discussing

AIKEN
SLATER
ARRINGTON or LOCKETT
MURRELL or WOODS (or no one as your 4th)

I like Reiss a lot, but I don't see how this is possible. Aiken, Slater, maybe Arrington make the team.

You just can't add nearly 25 rookies to the roster in a two year span and not ask them to play ST. There's only so many roster spots.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

Did you enjoy seeing Whigham, Davis and Izzo playing defense? We've always had special teamers who were not expected to play defense.

Maybe we have moved too far with four, maybe not.

AIKEN, SLATER, WOODS or MURRELL, and ARRINGTON or LOCKETT works for me.

In my opinion, we've lost something with this permanent specialist class and I'd love to see some bare knuckle competition for the last spots with backup/ST players.

 

[patriotscpfc]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

I like letting Aiken go as we have got a few more big bodies who can run down the field now. Linebackers and Tightends who can do the same job that Aiken does.

I say keep 3.

My 3 are:
Slater,
Arrington,
Woods (or Murrell or Thomas Williams or Alexander)

Slater is the Lead Blocker on Kickoff Returns when Tate is returning.

He is also a Gunner that opens up holes for the other ST guys. He is the one that breaks the 2 man wedge (and I watched this in person in London although Gost hit touchback after touchback) which allows Lockett, Arrington, Woods and the rest the chance to get down there unblocked.

 

[Lamanai]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

My three:

Woods
Aiken
Arrington (if he shows the same stuff as last year)

I don't have room on my 53 for any more because I am overloadig on young OL and LBs.

In reality, what will probably happen is that someone (or a few) from the 53 will get injured and the next players on the depth chart will not earn a spot over a dedicated STer (i.e. our 11th OL won't beat out Slater, for instance). JMO.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

Did you enjoy seeing Whigham, Davis and Izzo playing defense? We've always had special teamers who were not expected to play defense.

Maybe we have moved too far with four, maybe not.

AIKEN, SLATER, WOODS or MURRELL, and ARRINGTON or LOCKETT works for me.

Izzo was special teams Captain, and i believe Whigham was too. Whigham could also play safety, started some games and had 5 sacks and 4 interceptions.

Davis was a small linebacker, a specialty item on our defense and was used at safety.

Obviously these guys were primarily special teamers, but we didn't carry 4 specialists, we had a captain and other players played teams.

If Aiken is our captain, fine. I can't see more than one special teams only guy besides that, and Aiken does have some value as a backup WR.

With our revamped LB corps, we should be able to use Williams or Murrell and put Alexander out to pasture. One of them might someday do something in the regular defense, while Alexander has proved he won't.

Williams might play some fullback too.

That wouldn't preclude the group you listed BTW.

 

[sbpatfan]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

Aiken is getting old, I'd take guys like Slater / Arrington / Williams over him because they're younger and have some sort of "ceiling" atleast. Plus if it comes down to the Patriots needing Aiken to play WR again, we're screwed anyways so we mine as well have young guys get the reps even if they're "worse."

 

[jah]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

Aiken is getting old, I'd take guys like Slater / Arrington / Williams over him because they're younger and have some sort of "ceiling" atleast. Plus if it comes down to the Patriots needing Aiken to play WR again, we're screwed anyways so we mine as well have young guys get the reps even if they're "worse."

I was going to say more or less the same thing.

 

[Ryan]

Re: Early Roster Projections Reiss v Breer

Arrington has been outstanding on ST since his arrival in NE. I'd be disappointed to see him go. Didn't he lead the team in special teams tackles despite only being on the roster for half of the season?