A 2011 Second or Mike Johnson, OG Ala

[mgteich]

Belichick chose to have the 2011 Carolina second. What do we all think of this choice? I suspect that we'd be better off with Mike Johnson with one year of experience, rather than an OG we would draft in the 2nd of the 2011 draft.

 

[patchick]

I know some here were high on Johnson, and I don't question his effectiveness in college, but he didn't look anything like a Pats OL to me -- certainly not a LG. He's powerful and technically sound, but VERY slowfooted.

The Pats have had very little success drafting OLs who don't fit their prototype, no matter how highly regarded. (Compare O'Callaghan & LeVoir, who came out the same year. O'Callaghan was rated MUCH higher, but LeVoir was the one with Pats-style measurables.) Looking at the numbers that seem most predictive for Pats OLs, VJ, shuttle and cone:

Mankins 31.5" 4.45 7.54
Kaczur 31.5" 4.76 7.69
Johnson 25" 5.01 8.15

So IF I had taken a guard in that spot, it wouldn't have been Johnson. Maybe Lauvao:
NFL Videos: 2010 Combine workout: Mike Johnson
NFL Videos: 2010 Combine workout: Shawn Lauvao

 

[Criptonite]

Belichick chose to have the 2011 Carolina second. What do we all think of this choice? I suspect that we'd be better off with Mike Johnson with one year of experience, rather than an OG we would draft in the 2nd of the 2011 draft.

I was really high on Johnson. Although his measurables may not have been perfect, I still thought schemewise he would have been a good fit. And his experience playing all over the line is always a bonus for a backup. Due to the Mankins and Neal situations, I would have rather gone after a guy like Johnson who isn't as much of a project as Larsen. But even though I was high on him, I still thought he was a round 4 pick at very best. He was probably more of a 5-6 rounder. Where he got selected was a bit early for me, so I would rather have the 2nd round 2011 pick of a team that looks pretty bad right now.

 

[jah]

Compare O'Callaghan & LeVoir, who came out the same year. O'Callaghan was rated MUCH higher, but LeVoir was the one with Pats-style measurables.

Isn't O'Callaghan starting for the Chiefs while LeVoir is a mediocre backup who is "on the bubble" for a roster spot?

 

[patchick]

Isn't O'Callaghan starting for the Chiefs while LeVoir is a mediocre backup who is "on the bubble" for a roster spot?

And wasn't O'Callaghan released by the Patriots in favor of LeVoir? All of which together would seem to support my point that fit with the Pats scheme is key. (Though I actually think LeVoir's roster spot is secure.)

 

[mgteich]

We had thought that Mike Johnson might end up at either LG or RG. In any case, I understand the case for not drafting him based on measurables and fit, although as we know, we still have non-fitting Ohrnberger on the team.

In any case, I agree that LeVoir has a reasonably safe roster spot. This is especially true of Kaczur plays guard this year. If Kaczur is starting at LG, LeVoir is the first off the bench at both LT and RT, and dante would be comfortable with him starting at either spot, if needed.

 

[captain stone]

When the Carolina Panthers offer their 2nd-round pick (likely in the 40-48 range) in exchange for one of the last picks of the 3rd round, you have to take it from them. In one move, you have doubled the value of that pick. It's a no-brainer.

Besides, Bill had the opportunity to draft a future LG (of at least good backup quality) the previous 2 drafts, and he failed. Heck, even Selvish Capers, still avail. at the Welch pick, could poss. have moved inside to LG if Bill & Dante thought that Vollmer was the long-term answer at LT.

 

[captain stone]

Isn't O'Callaghan starting for the Chiefs while LeVoir is a mediocre backup who is "on the bubble" for a roster spot?

O'Callahan was a terrible fit here from the start. While he was technically a good value pick considering where he was taken in the '06 draft, he just wasn't the type of OLman with whom Bill & Dante seemed to feel most comfortable. I was very surprised when his name was called in the 5th round, and very disappointed when Mark Anderson's name wasn't called.

 

[patsfan-1982]

i don't think they will draft G next year at lest not as high as the 2th round if mankins, walks its going to be Connolly, and Kaczur, at G next year.

 

[Criptonite]

i don't think they will draft G next year at lest not as high as the 2th round if mankins, walks its going to be Connolly, and Kaczur, at G next year.

If Mankins walks, I think we may draft Pouncey early. I like Connolly, but not as the full-time starter.

 

[TheComeback]

i don't think they will draft G next year at lest not as high as the 2th round if mankins, walks its going to be Connolly, and Kaczur, at G next year.

I disagree. I think both of our first round picks next year will be linemen, one on each side of the ball. Can't see a more important position to address in the 1st round next year, as I think we can get a good back later on in the draft.

OLB is obviously another possibility, especially if Cunningham doesn't work out.

 

[Metaphors]

Belichick chose to have the 2011 Carolina second. What do we all think of this choice? I suspect that we'd be better off with Mike Johnson with one year of experience, rather than an OG we would draft in the 2nd of the 2011 draft.

Assuming Johnson stuck as the top interior backup, he would probably get a handful of starts. That would put him on the fast path for replacing Neal. That is a best-case scenario and not a sure thing with Kaczur and development projects Connolly, Wendell and Ohrnberger looking for an opportunity.

Projecting ahead, the Panthers pick should be a top 50 and that gives the Pats tremendous flexibility in how they use their first round picks. The draft looks to be top-heavy with DL, LB and WR prospects...all potential areas of need in 2011. Having an additional top 50 pick gives the Pats the opportunity to fill all 3 needs and still have the flexibility to address RB (Royster, Murray), scat back (Devine, Rodgers) or any number of 2nd-tier OL guys.

So getting a likely high pick under those circumstances seems pretty sweet versus adding another guy to the OL factory. BTW, I loved the Larsen pick and think he is going to be a nice addition to Dante University.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I disagree. I think both of our first round picks next year will be linemen, one on each side of the ball. Can't see a more important position to address in the 1st round next year, as I think we can get a good back later on in the draft.

OLB is obviously another possibility, especially if Cunningham doesn't work out.

I agree with your thinking. I think BB will take DE Bailey of Miami in a heartbeat if he is there when we pick.

I while I would love to see draft an OT in the first round, I think he also has his eye on RB Ingram of Alabama, who should be long gone by the time we pick, so I am hoping for an OT as plan B. I think the OT from Wiscomsin could fit really well on the right side, if Vollmer moves to the left side.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

When the Carolina Panthers offer their 2nd-round pick (likely in the 40-48 range) in exchange for one of the last picks of the 3rd round, you have to take it from them. In one move, you have doubled the value of that pick. It's a no-brainer.

Besides, Bill had the opportunity to draft a future LG (of at least good backup quality) the previous 2 drafts, and he failed. Heck, even Selvish Capers, still avail. at the Welch pick, could poss. have moved inside to LG if Bill & Dante thought that Vollmer was the long-term answer at LT.

Bingo!

Carolina will be lucky to win 6 games next year, that pick will be in the thirties. Dream scenario, Pats win the SB, Raiders and Panthers tie for the worst record in the league at 4-11, with the Raiders having the lower SOS, Pats would own picks 1, 32, and 33! Could you imagine the howling around the NFL if that happened?

 

[MaineMan]

Bingo!

Carolina will be lucky to win 6 games next year, that pick will be in the thirties. Dream scenario, Pats win the SB, Raiders and Panthers tie for the worst record in the league at 4-11, with the Raiders having the lower SOS, Pats would own picks 1, 32, and 33! Could you imagine the howling around the NFL if that happened?

Might be some wishful thinking

Seriously, the Panthers could get to 9-10 wins this year without Delhomme giving games away. Moore probably isn't any HoF QB, but the team did respond very well to his leadership at the end of last season. Night and day difference in confidence. That pick probably ends up being 50-55.

The Raiders have a legit QB for a change. Still quite a few holes, but 6-7 wins seems likely to me. At least not the worst record in the NFL. Possibly not even in their division (KC). The pick probably ends up being between #5 and #10.

The Pats' own pick being #32, I'm good with that.