Details on Jahri Evans' contract

[Miguel]

I hate to start this thread but I just want to correct a misperception about Evans' contract.

Reports: Mankins turned down lucrative Pats' offer

Tom Curran wrote that "He got a seven-year, $56.1 million deal with $12 million up front and $19 million in the first year between salary and bonuses. He'll bank north of $30 million in the first three years of the deal. "

The fact of the matter is that Evans will get $25.6 million in the first three years of the deal.

$12,000,000 signing bonus. This bonus is prorated over 5 years or $2.4million per annum.
$7,000,000 2010 salary which is guaranteed, BTW, which is why you see some media reports that Evans got $19 million guaranteed
$3,000,000 salary in both 2011 and 2012
$200,000 offseason workout bonus money in 2010/2011/2012.

Evans will get $31.1 million over the last four years of the contract.

$7,200,000 salary in 2013
$6,800,000 salary in 2014
$6,800,000 salary in 2015
$8,000,000 salary in 2016
$500,000 roster bonus in 2014/2015/2016
$200,000 offseason workout bonus money in 2013/2014/2015/2016.

His cap numbers
$9,600,000 in 2010
$5,600,000 in 2011
$5,600,000 in 2012
$9,800,000 in 2013
$9,900,000 in 2014
$7,500,000 in 2015
$8,700,000 in 2016

Supporting documentation - Saints Hall of Fame Golf brings current, former great blockers together

 

[PATSNUTme]

He will get $19,200,000 guaranteed $ or am I reading it wrong? If he should get cut, that is.

I know it's nothing official, but has anyone heard what Mankins was going to get in guaranteed $ with the Patriots offer?

 

[Miguel]

He will get $19,200,000 guaranteed $ or am I reading it wrong? If he should get cut, that is.

$19,000,000 since Jahri has to earn the offseason workout bonus money

I know it's nothing official, but has anyone heard what Mankins was going to get in guaranteed $ with the Patriots offer?

I have not.

 

[captain stone]

Thanks for the info, Miguel. My opinion that Mankin$ deserves only 3/4 of those $$s, max, hasn't changed.

In your opinion, Miguel, what would be a fair contract for both Mankin$ & the Pats?

 

[patfanken]

Thanks for the CORRECT info on Jabri's contract, I heard similar reports to the Curran claim earlier the day. The bottom line here is what the Pats offered Mankins in guaranteed money and what he's looking at in the first 3 years of the contract.

Seven million per year would put him in the top 5 guys at his position. That's about where I see Mankins as a top 5 guy. My guess the sticking point is in the up front and guaranteed money. I doubt very much if it approached that $19MM mark for the first year.

 

[Ian]

My guess the sticking point is in the up front and guaranteed money. I doubt very much if it approached that $19MM mark for the first year.

I'm guessing that, along with the fact it was only for 5-years and not longer. I don't get where Baur feels they're 20-percent from Evans' deal - unless he's referring to the total dollar amount for the duration of the entire deal, instead of the average $$ per season.

Although I could be wrong, but I don't recall the Patriots doing that length of a deal like the one Evans got with anyone in recent years, with the exception for Drew Bledsoe's final contract (which was for 10-years) - although that likely would have never gone that far and would have been redone.

It's crazy to think that Bledsoe would be in the final year of his contract if he was still here in New England. How times have changed

But otherwise 5-years seems to be about the length they're giving guys these days (which is what Wilfork got). So I wonder if that was an issue as well...although we'll obviously never know.

(NOTE: Please don't turn this into a Bledsoe thread - please keep it contract related)

 

[Triumph]

The bottom line here is what the Pats offered Mankins in guaranteed money and what he's looking at in the first 3 years of the contract.

Id sure like to know.

7 mil per sounds great but NFL contracts are not guaranteed.

 

[Miguel]

Thanks for the info, Miguel. My opinion that Mankin$ deserves only 3/4 of those $$s, max, hasn't changed.

In your opinion, Miguel, what would be a fair contract for both Mankin$ & the Pats?

Please note that I now think Mankins will not play again for the Patriots.

Five year deal.
$10,000,000 signing bonus. This bonus is prorated over 5 years or $2 million per annum.
$7,000,000 2010 salary which is guaranteed.
$4,000,000 salary in 2011 which would be guaranteed
$4,500,000 salary in 2012
$5,000,000 salary in 2013
$5,500,000 salary in 2014
$50,000 offseason workout bonus money all five years.

Under my proposal Mankins would get $25.565 million over the first 3 years of the contract - more than Evans. Mankins' APY would be $7.25 million and he would get more guaranteed money ($21 million) than Evans ($19 million)

His cap numbers
$9,050,000 in 2010
$6,050,000 in 2011
$6,550,000 in 2012
$7,050,000 in 2013
$7,550,000 in 2014

I based my numbers on
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Under the Cap: Top Ten Guards and Centers

While Evans is younger than Mankins, Mankins plays the more important position in my mind.

 

[xmarkd400x]

It's sounding like the Pats offered Mankins quite the fair market deal. A deal that worked for both player and team.

And he was pissed off about it why? Maybe that 20% number is supposed to mean number of years. I don't see how he could get so angry about a deal that seems to be right in line with the rest of the league. Doesn't Mankins understand how the Pats work? They are NEVER EVER going to overpay for a player.

 

[plk]

For a reasonable hypothesis about what Mankins is so angry about see Mike Reiss' article

Key issue: Extension or new deal - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

If (1) Logan Mankins pushed to negotiate a long-term contract a year ago when he expected to be a free agent at this point, and (2) if he was put off and reassured by Kraft that the long-term contract would happen this year and waiting would not be to his disadvantage, and (3) if the Patriots are using the fact that he is now a RFA in the negotiations, then I don't blame Mankins for being very angry and feeling that Kraft behaved dishonestly.

I would be very disappointed in the Patriots organization and Kraft if the above is what happened.

Obviously, at this point, it is just a guess with no evidence to support it. It would, however, explain Mankins extreme reaction.

 

[Buchanty]

Mankins will get $25.565 million over the first 3 years of the contract - more than Evans. Mankins' APY would be $7.25 million and he would get more guaranteed money ($21 million) than Evans ($19 million)

I think that adds up to $25.65 million which is consistent with the rest of the sentence. Mankins would get a 50k more than Jahri in those three years.

That and the higher guaranteed suggests that Mankins' big beef is duration of the contract. Is this really the case or an indication that his agent is not presenting the deal the numbers tell?

Either way I am disappointed with Mankins - even if it is the final offer from the Patriots I don't see how they failed to meet their commitments to him. There is no justification for his statements.

 

[BSR]

For a reasonable hypothesis about what Mankins is so angry about see Mike Reiss' article

Key issue: Extension or new deal - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

If (1) Logan Mankins pushed to negotiate a long-term contract a year ago when he expected to be a free agent at this point, and (2) if he was put off and reassured by Kraft that the long-term contract would happen this year and waiting would not be to his disadvantage, and (3) if the Patriots are using the fact that he is now a RFA in the negotiations, then I don't blame Mankins for being very angry and feeling that Kraft behaved dishonestly.

I would be very disappointed in the Patriots organization and Kraft if the above is what happened.

Obviously, at this point, it is just a guess with no evidence to support it. It would, however, explain Mankins extreme reaction.

The problem with your reasoning plk, is that Mankins and his agent approached the Pats in 2008 knowing that there was a strong likely hood that he would become a RFA. It shouldn't have been a surprise to him.

Additionally, pushing off the negotiations didn't put him at any more of a disadvantage as he was in 2008. The patriots held his rights then and the patriots hold his rights now. I am sure they would have used the same leverage in the negotiations then as they do now. The only difference is that they realize in 2008 that they wont be able to come an agreement so they finish 2009 knowing he won't get a deal from NE and he becomes a RFA anyway. The end game is the same.

Frankly, I wonder if his contract demands would have been as high in 2008 if they had negotiated with him then. Somehow I think the Evan's deal inflated his expectations, although I could be wrong. Maybe his demands were always to be the highest paid guard ever. If that is the case, then I think he may have been deluding himself because I am pretty sure Kraft would have never promised him that.

 

[plk]

Has Mankins, as opposed to his agent, actually complained about the contract that he was offered? If so, perhaps someone can give a link to the quote.

The issue is that Mankins clearly feels that he was lied to. I have to take this seriously whether his perception is correct or not. What do you think he feels he was lied to about?

 

[Miguel]

Frankly, I wonder if his contract demands would have been as high in 2008 if they had negotiated with him then.

I doubt it since a contract then would have had to take into account the fact that the Patriots were taking on Mannkins' injury risk for the 2008 and 2009 seasons.

 

[BSR]

Has Mankins, as opposed to his agent, actually complained about the contract that he was offered? If so, perhaps someone can give a link to the quote.

The issue is that Mankins clearly feels that he was lied to. I have to take this seriously whether his perception is correct or not. What do you think he feels he was lied to about?

"At this point, I'm pretty frustrated, from everything that's happened and the way negotiations have gone,"

"I was asked to play '09 out, and that they would address the contract during the uncapped year. I'm a team player, I took them at their word, and I felt I played out an undervalued contract."

It was pretty clear that it was always about the level of contract he was being offered. I'm guessing, and I think Reiss might have been the first to say this, but I think he believed that the Pats would make up for what he felt was an undervalued payday in 09.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Has Mankins, as opposed to his agent, actually complained about the contract that he was offered? If so, perhaps someone can give a link to the quote.

The issue is that Mankins clearly feels that he was lied to. I have to take this seriously whether his perception is correct or not. What do you think he feels he was lied to about?

All we have to go on is his word, which is a big deal in Mankins speak...which was that Bob Kraft promised to offer him a long term contract after 2009 and they lied, which in itself is a lie but whatever...

Mankins never complained about the contract. He claimed there wasn't any.

I hate to romanticize this crap but maybe Mankins wanted the team to show him some love. You know what they say about letting something you love go and seeing if it comes back to you...Foolish from a purely business perspective. They did it with Randy, but it was actually more of a test in that case than an expression of affection.... Maybe Logan so detested the tender he wanted them to simply rescind it on Monday. Maybe if he and his agent had actually been negotiating in good faith they'd have considered it, as ridiculous a move as that would be from a purely sound business perspective. But Mankins and his agent reportedly were not negotiating in good faith if as reported they never even countered the teams first offer that sat on the table for weeks leading up to his little implosion.

 

[Buchanty]

It is an unfortunate situation as I would have liked to keep Mankins, one of our good 1st round draft picks. However the compensation is not too bad - either a #1 draft pick or a trade/lower pick for commensurate player or less +++++ more money to lock in TB. I do think the OL will be weaker with his absence, but I would rather have a happy Tom under center and a fresh prospect to build into a regular 1st teamer.

 

[plk]

"At this point, I'm pretty frustrated, from everything that's happened and the way negotiations have gone,"

"I was asked to play '09 out, and that they would address the contract during the uncapped year. I'm a team player, I took them at their word, and I felt I played out an undervalued contract."

It was pretty clear that it was always about the level of contract he was being offered. I'm guessing, and I think Reiss might have been the first to say this, but I think he believed that the Pats would make up for what he felt was an undervalued payday in 09.

Excuse me, but none of this is complaining about the contract that he was offered. It just isn't. He's not saying that the contract he was offered is insulting or something to that effect which is what players frequently say.

It is not at all clear that it is the level of the contract that he is complaining about.

Mankins is complaining about what has gone on in the the negotiations, and he makes the correct point that he played out what turned out to be an undervalued rookie contract that he signed. That is not complaining about the contract numbers that he has been offered.

One factor in all of this may be that Mankins is not, in football years, young. He is 28. This is almost undoubtedly going to be his one big contract.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Please note that I now think Mankins will not play again for the Patriots.

Five year deal.
$10,000,000 signing bonus. This bonus is prorated over 5 years or $2 million per annum.
$7,000,000 2010 salary which is guaranteed.
$4,000,000 salary in 2011 which would be guaranteed
$4,500,000 salary in 2012
$5,000,000 salary in 2013
$5,500,000 salary in 2014
$50,000 offseason workout bonus money all five years.

Mankins will get $25.565 million over the first 3 years of the contract - more than Evans. Mankins' APY would be $7.25 million and he would get more guaranteed money ($21 million) than Evans ($19 million)

His cap numbers
$9,050,000 in 2010
$6,050,000 in 2011
$6,550,000 in 2012
$7,050,000 in 2013
$7,550,000 in 2014

I based my numbers on
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Under the Cap: Top Ten Guards and Centers

While Evans is younger than Mankins, Mankins plays the more important position in my mind.

I think it is important that you make it clear to people that this is your projection of what he should expect (I think your use of the term will as opposed to would may inadvertently confusing some into thinking you have uncovered terms he was offered). And given the fact that he is a RFA and not a UFA could reasonably be expected to discount what if anything he ultimately gets offered, be that here or from a team facing trade compensation for the privilidge of negotiating with him... May not be fair but as Bill always says, it is what it is...

I also think it's folly to mix statistical analysis with subjective analysis unless you truly have the basis to, which is the position a team should be in. Bill (and hopefully Sean Payton) is really the only one equipped to decipher which guard possibly plays the more significant role on his team and why. And he also has the right to factor in other variables like age, overall unit budget, long term plans and overall system philosophy.

Given the structure and parameters of Wilfork's deal I wouldn't be surprised if Mankins was offered substantially more in signing bonus than you projected and roughly as much in guarantees. There was a media report somewhere of upwards of $25M guaranteed, which if true wouldn't surprise me given his relative durability to date. Recalling their offers to Branch and Seymour however, I have a feeling they may have tried to fold in his RFA tender effectively making it a 6 year deal at a slightly lower overall average than his 5 year new money extension average and potentially impacting his meaningless 3 year average if the guaranteed money is better...again due to his relative durability and the functional lifetime of an OL vs. a NT... What it would impact is his overall average and career earnings potential. If it was 6 years total he likely wanted the ability to potentially earn well in excess of $40M because he knows it's unlikely he gets to earn another several million at age 34.

I too think he will not play here again unless there is no value to be had in trade. In which case I think he will report and likely play come December whether he or we truly want him to or not. Although depending on how the CBA wind is blowing they could simply part company with him ala Lawyer Milloy prior to the season or more likely later in the season if the value of the roster spot exceeds that of potentially retaining his rights (since money won't be a concern).

Attacking Bob was a poor tactical decision unless his only goal was to shoot his way out of town. Bill is more inclined to let that crap roll off him and players know that. Kraft is a pretty savvy businessman and a consiliator by nature, but Mankins would have to do one heck of a backtrack to salvage any place here after choosing to call into question the character of the guy who signs all their checks. The decision to move him or squat on him will now come down to pure value, and if it isn't there in trade in 2010 he is in deep doo doo.

 

[BSR]

Excuse me, but none of this is complaining about the contract that he was offered. It just isn't. He's not saying that the contract he was offered is insulting or something to that effect which is what players frequently say.

It is not at all clear that it is the level of the contract that he is complaining about.

Mankins is complaining about what has gone on in the the negotiations, and he makes the correct point that he played out what turned out to be an undervalued rookie contract that he signed. That is not complaining about the contract numbers that he has been offered.

One factor in all of this may be that Mankins is not, in football years, young. He is 28. This is almost undoubtedly going to be his one big contract.

His problem is with the negotiations. If they aren't negotiating about the terms of the contract, then what are they negotiating?

As for the rookie contract that he signed, its funny; for a man who's word is his bond, he sure was ready to rip up that rookie "bond". Wasn't he? If he promised to play under that contract and that is now done then why is he even bothering to bring it up? Its all pretty clear. He didn't like the money that he played for in 09. He wanted more. He expected the team to make up for it the next contract. When they didn't to his satisfaction he went ballistic and felt insulted. Unless there is something else they were negotiating, that would seem to sum up his angst.