Should NFL remove players from HOF?

[JR4]

The NFL is suppose to representative of the best the NFL has had.
When a player commits a crime or brings great disgrace to their name
and that player in Canton HOF should the NFL have the right to remove
such players?

I know this is a debate else way so I wanted to see what you all think.
LT is just latest but there are others.

 

[Gwedd]

No. The HOF is supposed to represent the player's accomplishments on the field. If he's good enough to be selected, he's good enough to remain there.

What he does afterward should have no bearing on his status once he's elected.

Respects,

 

[JR4]

No. The HOF is supposed to represent the player's accomplishments on the field. If he's good enough to be selected, he's good enough to remain there.

What he does afterward should have no bearing on his status once he's elected.

Respects,

So you don't mind that a player gets honored and seen by thousands of
visitors a year even though he is a rapist. Suppose a mass killer?
So a young boy visits the HOF and see player "XYZ" and wants to be like
him. Some time later he finds out his idol is a mass killer or a rapist.
That doesn't bother you?

 

[Gwedd]

So you don't mind that a player gets honored and seen by thousands of
visitors a year even though he is a rapist. Suppose a mass killer?
So a young boy visits the HOF and see player "XYZ" and wants to be like
him. Some time later he finds out his idol is a mass killer or a rapist.
That doesn't bother you?

Should "Time" magazine purge it's files of the issue where it named Hitler as "Man of the Year"?

Heck, half the HoF statues would be removed if we judged them by their actions afterward. Where do you draw the line? Getting a DUI? Arrested for assault? Burglary? Spouse Abusive? Illegal Gambling?

What if it was discovered that he had taken illegal drugs when he was a player, or steroids? Half the Steelers in the HoF would be tossed out, along with a LOT of players from the 70's and 80's.

The HoF honors the player because of his accomplishments ON the field. If he messes up afterward, he'll likely have enough personal shunning by others to offset his status.

 

[JR4]

Should "Time" magazine purge it's files of the issue where it named Hitler as "Man of the Year"?

Heck, half the HoF statues would be removed if we judged them by their actions afterward. Where do you draw the line? Getting a DUI? Arrested for assault? Burglary? Spouse Abusive? Illegal Gambling?

What if it was discovered that he had taken illegal drugs when he was a player, or steroids? Half the Steelers in the HoF would be tossed out, along with a LOT of players from the 70's and 80's.

The HoF honors the player because of his accomplishments ON the field. If he messes up afterward, he'll likely have enough personal shunning by others to offset his status.

I see your point and the line would be hard to draw. But there are some
crimes that are just so bad that to honor such a person seems not right.
Raping a 15 year old or a mass killing or murder incident for example.
Such a player certainly deserves to be removed and not honored.

Even when a player has retired, his character and what he does often
reflects back to the NFL. Certainly true of NFL HOFers.

 

[Snake Eyes]

So you don't mind that a player gets honored and seen by thousands of
visitors a year even though he is a rapist. Suppose a mass killer?
So a young boy visits the HOF and see player "XYZ" and wants to be like
him. Some time later he finds out his idol is a mass killer or a rapist.
That doesn't bother you?

I grew up watching LT when I lived in NY and I worshipped him, when I read that he was arrested for rape it was like being punched in the stomach but even knowing what an utter disappointment he is as a person I still wouldnt want to have grown up without watching him.

Being a great player doesn't mean one is a good person. I don't know what you think you'd be accomplishing by trying to shield kids from that fact, I'd rather them learn that lesson as soon as possible.

 

[JMarr]

I see your point and the line would be hard to draw. But there are some
crimes that are just so bad that to honor such a person seems not right.
Raping a 15 year old or a mass killing or murder incident for example.
Such a player certainly deserves to be removed and not honored.

Even when a player has retired, his character and what he does often
reflects back to the NFL. Certainly true of NFL HOFers.

Disagree. It should be about what the player accomplished while on the playing field, or representing the NFL in a significant capacity post-career, ala Pete Rose. What you're arguing for smacks of censorship. If anything, it's good for people to see guys like LT in the Hall of Fame--shows a) that anyone, now matter how much of a sports icon, can fall into the abyss post-career, and b) in LT's case, how someone who had known problems during his career wasn't able to ever exorcise his demons.

 

[JR4]

Disagree. It should be about what the player accomplished while on the playing field, or representing the NFL in a significant capacity post-career, ala Pete Rose. What you're arguing for smacks of censorship. If anything, it's good for people to see guys like LT in the Hall of Fame--shows a) that anyone, now matter how much of a sports icon, can fall into the abyss post-career, and b) in LT's case, how someone who had known problems during his career wasn't able to ever exorcise his demons.

It is sort of amazing to me that because a person is a great NFL player
some think their personal responsibility of being a good citizen of the
world doesn't matter.
Let me ask you one question. Suppose player XYZ was nominated to be
in the HOF as one of the greatest QBs ever and that player since retiring
went berserk and killed his wife and two children for what ever reason.
Do you think the committee would vote him into the NFL hall of fame?

 

[spacecrime]

It is sort of amazing to me that because a person is a great NFL player
some think their personal responsibility of being a good citizen of the
world doesn't matter.

If it is a personal responsibility, it is personal and none of our business.

Players are voted into the Hall of Fame by sports writers. It is risky enough to have them judge a players worth as an athlete.

You are saying they should also judge the players on their morals.

That is bad enough, but the possiblities for abuse are tremendous. Even if things could be done impartially and not on media hype and sensationalism it would never work have "being a good citizen of the world" more important than football prowess. Mother Teresa would be in the NFL HoF.

But we all know that media sensationalism and hysteria would drive changes, just as sensationalism and hysteria are driving the creation of this thread.

And, yes, LT is driving this thread. These threads ONLY appear when the media and fanatics are going beserk over the current scandal.

Let's let the best football players in the world be Hall of Famers, and the best people in the world be saints. Mother Teresa may have been a good citizen of the world, but she shied away from tackles. Let's keep her out of the HoF and LT in.

 

[Deus Irae]

The NFL is suppose to representative of the best the NFL has had.
When a player commits a crime or brings great disgrace to their name
and that player in Canton HOF should the NFL have the right to remove
such players?

I know this is a debate else way so I wanted to see what you all think.
LT is just latest but there are others.

To me, Halls of Fame are about the person as a player. The off-the-field and post-career stuff is irrelevant, unless it's something that impacts game performance (PEDs, for example).

 

[JR4]

If it is a personal responsibility, it is personal and none of our business.

Players are voted into the Hall of Fame by sports writers. It is risky enough to have them judge a players worth as an athlete.

You are saying they should also judge the players on their morals.

That is bad enough, but the possiblities for abuse are tremendous. Even if things could be done impartially and not on media hype and sensationalism it would never work have "being a good citizen of the world" more important than football prowess. Mother Teresa would be in the NFL HoF.

But we all know that media sensationalism and hysteria would drive changes, just as sensationalism and hysteria are driving the creation of this thread.

And, yes, LT is driving this thread. These threads ONLY appear when the media and fanatics are going beserk over the current scandal.

Let's let the best football players in the world be Hall of Famers, and the best people in the world be saints. Mother Teresa may have been a good citizen of the world, but she shied away from tackles. Let's keep her out of the HoF and LT in.

Nice long response but you didn't answer my question.


Suppose player XYZ was nominated to be
in the HOF as one of the greatest QBs ever and that player since retiring
went berserk and killed his wife and two children for what ever reason.
Do you think the committee would vote him into the NFL hall of fame?

Do not assume there is any directive by the NFL to consider off the field
issues. Just a Yes or No would be fine.

 

[Kontradiction]

No. The HOF is supposed to represent the player's accomplishments on the field. If he's good enough to be selected, he's good enough to remain there.

What he does afterward should have no bearing on his status once he's elected.

Respects,

This is basically what I wanted to say.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Nice long response but you didn't answer my question.


Suppose player XYZ was nominated to be
in the HOF as one of the greatest QBs ever and that player since retiring
went berserk and killed his wife and two children for what ever reason.
Do you think the committee would vote him into the NFL hall of fame?

Do not assume there is any directive by the NFL to consider off the field
issues. Just a Yes or No would be fine.

Why do you give a crap what the HoF committee thinks? They're a bunch of writers who have never played the game at the pro level, give me a committee made up of former players and coaches and I'll take what they think a lot more seriously.

And yes, I would vote that QB to the HoF.

 

[ALP]

as everyone else has said, HOF represents good football players

its a shame these guys are not as good people as they were players, but what can one do?

honor him for his football accomplishments, just like OJ, and he killed someone

btw, at least to me, being in the HOF, means nothing when ur a killer or rapist, so its an empty "honor" as u call it

 

[MassPats38]

I suspect many superstars are not the sort of person that the average person would want to spend time with given the effects of celebrity status and requirements to be successful in the game. Take away the game, and all that is left is that character.

HOF status is for those who define the sport on the field, not off the field. It is a hard enough question to debate whether character matters to any great extent in making it to the HOF. There is no good character club, or records for being a solid citizen. You enter for the accomplishments while in the NFL, and no pictures or entries are added for what you later do, good or bad, after you are enshrined. If you can strip status for bad deeds, then how about adding guys like Byron White, who are credited with high accomplishments after their careers end? And how bad is a bad deed that would cause you to lose HOF status? Any post-enshrinement assessments are just too arbitrary.

 

[JR4]

I suspect many superstars are not the sort of person that the average person would want to spend time with given the effects of celebrity status and requirements to be successful in the game. Take away the game, and all that is left is that character.

HOF status is for those who define the sport on the field, not off the field. It is a hard enough question to debate whether character matters to any great extent in making it to the HOF. There is no good character club, or records for being a solid citizen. You enter for the accomplishments while in the NFL, and no pictures or entries are added for what you later do, good or bad, after you are enshrined. If you can strip status for bad deeds, then how about adding guys like Byron White, who are credited with high accomplishments after their careers end? And how bad is a bad deed that would cause you to lose HOF status? Any post-enshrinement assessments are just too arbitrary.

If character doesn't matter once you get into the HOF then why not apply
the same logic to the active players of the NFL.
Once you make a NFL roster character doesn't matter. But we do
know it matters. If a player is bad enough he can get suspended
indefinitely.

Character matters going into the HOF, why shouldn't it matter once one
is there? NFL heroes should be someone you can point a young man at
and say ... see what he did ... you can be like him. I know it is not
often possible but in extreme cases the NFL should step up and say
this is not what we represent or condone and do something about it.

 

[JMarr]

It is sort of amazing to me that because a person is a great NFL player
some think their personal responsibility of being a good citizen of the
world doesn't matter.
Let me ask you one question. Suppose player XYZ was nominated to be
in the HOF as one of the greatest QBs ever and that player since retiring
went berserk and killed his wife and two children for what ever reason.
Do you think the committee would vote him into the NFL hall of fame?

Case by case basis, but in this case, the committee almost definitely would not. Me personally? Again I would not draw a bright line rule at all and might still vote yes depending on all the circumstances.

Regardless, once he's been inducted, you don't 'de-induct' him and try to erase him from the memory books. That's like revisionist history,

 

[patsfan-1982]

no thats why i hate the baseball hall of fame cause they keeps guys like pete rose out the HOF is about what you did on the field not off of it.


and as fas as our kids wanting to be like rapist and killers in the HOF i mean come on it's our job to raise our kids right not some football player that gets paid millions

 

[DaBruinz]

The only time I have heard of someone being removed from a Hall of Fame is Alan Eagleson being removed from the Hockey Hall of Fame for numerous crimes committed as an agent and as the president of the NFLPA.

The only other person I know of who has run afoul of a Hall of Fame is Pete Rose. Who was banned for betting on his own games while managing the Reds.. And he received a lifetime ban because it was directly related to the game.

There are players whom I believe shouldn't have been elected because of what they did during their career.. That list includes Michael Irvin and Ray Lewis. But that's just me.

 

[mmasterkillah]

If you take guys out because of off-field issues, than you ought to think about adding guys because they are good samaritans. Sound ridiculous? You betcha.