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Tyrone McKenzie


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At the very least, he's going to be good depth to have at the position should injuries occur. Like Crable, I'm not really sure what to make of him. If Spikes doesn't get hurt during OTA's and TC, I really don't see him losing out on the starter job opposite Mayo, though.
 
I would like for us to have four ilbs on the roster, mckenzie, along with mayo guytonand spikes complete that four

I don't remember his measurables but I'm pretty sure he is smaller than spikes therefore I expect spikes to be alongside mayo on running downs and guyton with mayo on passing downs with Tyrone spelling mayo

He's 6'2", 240 LBS, and had over 350 tackles in his three years of college. I have a really good feeling about this guy. Suddenly, we'll have 3 guys (Mayo, McKenzie, and Spikes) that are said to have great insticts and each have "a nose for the football".
 
McKenzie has as good a shot as Spikes to be starting opposite Mayo in our opener. He's recovered from his injury and has had a year in the system.

I love this 3-man ILB tandem, with Guyton as a 4th in case of an injury. They have the potential to be the the best set of ILB's we've had here in a long time.

The D as a whole has me pretty excited. We have similar great depth at CB, S, and DL. OLB is more of a question, but should still be improved from last year, with Cunningham added and Guyton probably moving outside.
 
We "need" four ILB's for our system? And who were they last year? Did we play even three in any game last year?

Lats year it would have been Mayo, Guyton, and Seau......the year before you had Bru, Mayo, Guyton, and Seau....In other years you have had Bru, Johnson, Phifer, Cox.....I would say the Pats like to have at least three ILBs they feel they can count on and since OLB is probably a little light I think it is a good thing to have an extra ILB as you can use them in different situations to fill in on the outside.
 
Really? That run up the middle in the Ravens game might suggest otherwise. lol.
lol is right. Calling something our most glaring weakness because of a busted play with a couple missed tackles is pretty funny.

Why is everyone so hot about a statement that ILB was not our most glaring weakness? Which of you guys were frothing at the mouth pre-draft, saying forget DE and OLB and TE and WR, what we need most of all is an ILB?
 
lol is right. Calling something our most glaring weakness because of a busted play with a couple missed tackles is pretty funny.

Why is everyone so hot about a statement that ILB was not our most glaring weakness? Which of you guys were frothing at the mouth pre-draft, saying forget DE and OLB and TE and WR, what we need most of all is an ILB?

I've been on the record as stating that ILB was our third most needed position, after DE and OLB.
 
I also like the idea of having four ILB's. I'm fine with a position linebacker instead of Alexander, who usually fills that roster spot and doesn't play ILB.

HOWEVER, the reality is that Seau came to the patriots last year after Mayo was injured. Our "plan" was NOT a 3-man rotation of Mayo, Guyton and Seau. We had a plan for Mayo, Guyton and developing rookie.

Lats year it would have been Mayo, Guyton, and Seau......the year before you had Bru, Mayo, Guyton, and Seau....In other years you have had Bru, Johnson, Phifer, Cox.....I would say the Pats like to have at least three ILBs they feel they can count on and since OLB is probably a little light I think it is a good thing to have an extra ILB as you can use them in different situations to fill in on the outside.
 
...OLB is more of a question, but should still be improved from last year, with Cunningham added and Guyton probably moving outside.

I don't know why the idea of Guyton as an OLB doesn't get brought up more often. I agree with you- use Guyton as an OLB, unless we lose an ILB. At least Guyton has speed and has a full year of experience, albeit at ILB.
 
I don't know why the idea of Guyton as an OLB doesn't get brought up more often.
Because he tried it here before, and sucked at it.
 
I don't know why the idea of Guyton as an OLB doesn't get brought up more often. I agree with you- use Guyton as an OLB, unless we lose an ILB. At least Guyton has speed and has a full year of experience, albeit at ILB.

I dont understand why people are STILL bringing this up...

GUYTON IS NOT AN OLB, he is big enough and fast enough but not STRONG ENOUGH, he cannot SET THE EDGE

if you do not believe me, check the seattle game, and now STOP SAYING GUYTON SHOULD PLAY OLB


thank you
 
Whenever I saw South Florida play when he was there, he never stood out even amongst the lame Big East talent. When we picked him last year in the 3rd round, I was like "what the hell?" I hope he proves me wrong, but he's got "Gus Scott type career" written all over him.

Per his wicki:

South Florida
Before the 2007 season McKenzie transferred to the University of South Florida, receiving a hardship waiver from the NCAA allowing him to play immediately. In 2007 he earned second-team All-Big East honors after setting a school record and team-leading 121 tackles. He also had 1.5 sacks, two forced fumbles, two fumble recoveries and a blocked kick. As a senior in 2008, McKenzie once again led the Bulls in tackles with 116 and earned first-team All-Big East honors. He also had a sack and an interception and set a USF record for tackles over consecutive seasons with 237.

You didnt notice him, but the kids a tackling machine
 
Because he tried it here before, and sucked at it.

gasp, a rookie UDFA sucked at OLB in the Patriots system :eek:

I'm not saying that he should play there but what happened his rookie year does not mean he would automatically suck at it forever.
 
McKenzie 6'2" 243
Spikes 6'2" 249

Talk about twisting some facts.

McKenzie 6'1 and a half, 243
Spikes 6'2 and 7/8ths, 249

Damn, Spikes is a full inch and a half taller than McKenzie, don't try to twist data like that it's misleading. No where is Brandon Spikes listed at 6'2"

As for the actual discussion, I think McKenzie will be a core special teams player. I think he may also see some time backing up the inside, but it really depends on how quickly Brandon Spikes adapts to the system.
 
gasp, a rookie UDFA sucked at OLB in the Patriots system :eek:

I'm not saying that he should play there but what happened his rookie year does not mean he would automatically suck at it forever.

Agreed. I don't think Guyton has the strength to ever be an every down 3-4 outside linebacker, but I think the Patriots could use him as a blitzer at outside linebacker in pure pass rushing situations, because you could disguise it because of his ability to move back into coverage.

It might not work out for Guyton, but why not try it?
 
lol is right. Calling something our most glaring weakness because of a busted play with a couple missed tackles is pretty funny.

Why is everyone so hot about a statement that ILB was not our most glaring weakness? Which of you guys were frothing at the mouth pre-draft, saying forget DE and OLB and TE and WR, what we need most of all is an ILB?

"Most glaring weakness" is not what was said:

Our weakness last year was not at ILB.

I stated that "our weakness last year was not at ILB" I beliueve that our weaknesses were at CB, OLB and DE.

I did not state that we could not use an upgrade.


Now, if you'd like to claim that ILB wasn't a weakness, you should feel free to do so. Perhaps the team's calling a 450 year old Junior Seau out of retirement was just ceremonial, despite the fact that he was receiving playing time. It should be noted again, however, that Belichick has drafted an ILB in the top 3 rounds in each of the past 3 seasons. That would seem to indicate that he sees a need in that area.
 
By your logic, it is as logical to say that QB is a glaring need.

Seau was signed three weeks AFTER Mayo was injured. McKenzie and Bruschi were already gone for the season.

Yes, we had a perceived weakness at backup ILB (perceived by posters). However, Belichick was fine with what he had. Obviously, he would have felt better with a hel;thy rookie prospect instead of the aged one. Seau played in 7 games, while Mayo recovered.

"Most glaring weakness" is not what was said:






Now, if you'd like to claim that ILB wasn't a weakness, you should feel free to do so. Perhaps the team's calling a 450 year old Junior Seau out of retirement was just ceremonial, despite the fact that he was receiving playing time. It should be noted again, however, that Belichick has drafted an ILB in the top 3 rounds in each of the past 3 seasons. That would seem to indicate that he sees a need in that area.
 
By your logic, it is as logical to say that QB is a glaring need.

Seau was signed three weeks AFTER Mayo was injured. McKenzie and Bruschi were already gone for the season.

Yes, we had a perceived weakness at backup ILB (perceived by posters). However, Belichick was fine with what he had. Obviously, he would have felt better with a hel;thy rookie prospect instead of the aged one. Seau played in 7 games, while Mayo recovered.

Belichick clearly was not fine with what he had. That's why he drafted McKenzie before the season, and Spikes in the recent draft. I'm not sure where the disconnect is here, but a simple review of the games makes it obvious that ILB was a problem, and it was not just with the backups.

Then again, only 4-5 spots on the defense were well played with any real degree of consistency:

Warren (DE)
Wilfork (NT)
Bodden (RCB)
Meriweather (S)
TBC (OLB)

Every other position struggled for one reason or another. That includes both ILB spots. Again, if BB was "fine with what he had", he wouldn't be picks in the top 3 rounds on ILBs for 3 straight years.

Also, using your logic, "Belichick was fine with what he had" at DE, too. You still listed that as a weakness.
 
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As usual, the issue is communication. For you, we had problems at 20 defensive roster spots. We wanted to develop a future inside linebacker which meant that we had a current problem. And so we did by your definition of "problem".

As an analogy, I am fine with our offensive line where we add a player just about every year. I guess I should be aghast at this problem area since we add a new player each year, and this situation is never solved. Nonsense! We have a fine offensive line, and a fine approach to managing the unit.

TWO inside linebackers get almost all the reps. We usually have a third in the rotation, but this is not essential. Belichick drafted McKenzie as Bruschi's roster replacement, and had Seau in the wings in case of an emergency (which choice he used when Bruschi, Mayo and McKenzie were all unavailable).

You and I may disagree with Belichick's assessment of the ILB position, then and now. However, it is what it is, and what it was. How satisfied was Belichick with Mayo and Guyton? He had an apportunity to draft Laurinitis or Maluaga and decided that he didn't have a sufficient need for 2009 help to make the move. As I said, you and I disagree then and now with the choice of Chung over a linebacker. You and I believe that this choice was wrong is foresight and in hindsight.

That doesn't change the apparent reality that Belichick did not see the 2009 ILB unit as the problem of the defense. I do agree that if there are 20 problem roster spots, then ILB is indeed a problem.



Belichick clearly was not fine with what he had. That's why he drafted McKenzie before the season, and Spikes in the recent draft. I'm not sure where the disconnect is here, but a simple review of the games makes it obvious that ILB was a problem, and it was not just with the backups.

Then again, only 4-5 spots on the defense were well played with any real degree of consistency:

Warren (DE)
Wilfork (NT)
Bodden (RCB)
Meriweather (S)
TBC (OLB)

Every other position struggled for one reason or another. That includes both ILB spots. Again, if BB was "fine with what he had", he wouldn't be picks in the top 3 rounds on ILBs for 3 straight years.

Also, using your logic, "Belichick was fine with what he had" at DE, too. You still listed that as a weakness.
 
As usual, the issue is communication. For you, we had problems at 20 defensive roster spots. We wanted to develop a future inside linebacker which meant that we had a current problem. And so we did by your definition of "problem".

Again, drafting 3 inside linebackers in the first 3 rounds after the team had avoided using high round picks on linebackers for most of Belichick's tenure would seem to indicate that the team considered the ILB situation to be a problem. That would be Belichick defining it as such, not me. I simply would be in agreement with him on the matter.

As an analogy, I am fine with our offensive line where we add a player just about every year. I guess I should be aghast at this problem area since we add a new player each year, and this situation is never solved. Nonsense! We have a fine offensive line, and a fine approach to managing the unit.

1.) If you have a non-QB position that you draft for every year, and yet you still have to fall back upon a player who will be 34 years old and can't stay healthy to be your starter, your approach is, at least arguably, not working all that well.

2.) When you attempt an analogy that involves the use of late round picks being compared to a situation using early round picks, you fail with your analogy.

TWO inside linebackers get almost all the reps. We usually have a third in the rotation, but this is not essential. Belichick drafted McKenzie as Bruschi's roster replacement, and had Seau in the wings in case of an emergency (which choice he used when Bruschi, Mayo and McKenzie were all unavailable).

If he was just drafting to replace Bruschi, he wouldn't have needed to draft Spikes with Mayo, Guyton and McKenzie already on board.

You and I may disagree with Belichick's assessment of the ILB position, then and now. However, it is what it is, and what it was. How satisfied was Belichick with Mayo and Guyton? He had an apportunity to draft Laurinitis or Maluaga and decided that he didn't have a sufficient need for 2009 help to make the move. As I said, you and I disagree then and now with the choice of Chung over a linebacker. You and I believe that this choice was wrong is foresight and in hindsight.

Belichick still had Bruschi available at the time that he drafted Chung. Had he known that Bruschi's game would completely collapse to the point of retirement, I'm not sure what he drafting strategy would have been. I don't think he'd have drafted Maualuga anyway, though, because Maualuga's a chucklehead. As for Laurinitis, the Dolphins needed ILB help, too, and they passed on him, as did the Browns and Broncos. Four 3-4 defense teams in need of ILBs passed on Laurinitis and Maualuga, so I'm not sure why you point to them as players that would/should have been chosen.

That doesn't change the apparent reality that Belichick did not see the 2009 ILB unit as the problem of the defense. I do agree that if there are 20 problem roster spots, then ILB is indeed a problem.

Actually, what it does is show how one can see the same facts and come to radically different conclusions about it.

I see the retirement of Bruschi followed by the return of Seau

I see the insertion of a former UFDA, who's weak against the run, into the starting lineup at ILB in 2009

I see the attempt to bring in free agents for the spot in consecutive seasons (see Paris Lenon and Victor Hobson)

I see 3 high ILB picks in 3 seasons

I look at all of that and I see signs and evidence that Belichick realized ILB was a position of need. You see it as business as usual, despite the reality that paying such high prices for inside linebackers in the draft had not previously been done in the BB-Patriots era. We not only seem to have a different read on the signs, we apparently have a different take on what's meant by business as usual, "fine approach" and "apparent reality".
 
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As for the actual discussion, I think McKenzie will be a core special teams player. I think he may also see some time backing up the inside, but it really depends on how quickly Brandon Spikes adapts to the system.

I agree. I see McKenzie as a backup for Mayo (core ST player as well), playing in the old Guyton slot while Spikes takes over in Mayo's old spot.
 
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