Seymour helped push Warren to NE

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Maybe Seymour praised the Pats to Warren because he knew Warren was probably not going to be of any importance to this team?

Warren at this stage appears to be a warm body for depth,nothing more ...a game changer he is not and never was

If Damione Lewis or Mike Wright gets the nod over Warren that will really tell you something about his value.

 

[supafly]

Well, he does suck when you're looking at him for a potential starter

I don't know where he'd start? Or why you'd think he'd start? He's an interior lineman here for depth and competition, possibly camp fodder. I suppose he'd compete with Lewis for the first backup role in a 4 man front (possibly). My whole point was defending his age, as was in my original 5 or 6 word statement. I am optimistic that a HOF head coach who is known for bringing out the best in players, may be able to bring out whatever raw skill set made him a top 3 pick in the first place. Even if he was drafted in the 7th rd and has been nothing more than a role player/JAG, his warm body was still needed for depth and competition.

As far as for BB replacing Seymour with Green, that was done in hopes of looking toward the future at a top 10 pick in a rookie capped draft, so you're forgetting that part. It's possible that he felt that Green wouldn't have been such a dramatic dropoff, or it's possible that he felt the 2-3 step dropoff was indeed still worth the potential top 10 pick. There's also the Seymour attitude and contract situation. In so many words, I still value BB's talent assessing highly. Even if all he wanted to do was take a flier on a warm body, that's OK with me.

 

[supafly]

Maybe Seymour praised the Pats to Warren because he knew Warren was probably not going to be of any importance to this team?

Warren at this stage appears to be a warm body for depth,nothing more ...a game changer he is not and never was

If Damione Lewis or Mike Wright gets the nod over Warren that will really tell you something about his value.

Did anyone really feel that he was here for anything differently?

Mike Wright, Myron Pryor, etc, etc would be on the field way before Gerard Warren.

And by the way, what does Wright getting the nod over Warren tell you about his value at all? Wouldn't you expect a 6-7 yr vet with complete knowledge of the system and success on pass rushes to get the nod over possible camp fodder?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Did anyone really feel that he was here for anything differently?

Mike Wright, Myron Pryor, etc, etc would be on the field way before Gerard Warren.

And by the way, what does Wright getting the nod over Warren tell you about his value at all? Wouldn't you expect a 6-7 yr vet with complete knowledge of the system and success on pass rushes to get the nod over possible camp fodder?

I actually like Wright of all 3,I always thought his pass rushing skills were not that bad for a DE on this team.

 

[supafly]

Maybe Seymour praised the Pats to Warren because he knew Warren was probably not going to be of any importance to this team?
Warren at this stage appears to be a warm body for depth,nothing more ...a game changer he is not and never was

If Damione Lewis or Mike Wright gets the nod over Warren that will really tell you something about his value.

I also half joked about this possibility on page 1, hours ago in a worthless discussion of whether or not Gerard Warren was just regular sh!t or total absolute sh!t.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Borges is taking a beating in the PFT comments section. If only they knew, the guy who wrote that draft assessment is one of five nominees for the McCann Award this year, bestowed by the (apparent knuckleheads who run the) Pro Football HOF to the best football writer among their voting members (and of course voted on by those same largely ignorant members). What a freakin' joke... It's bad enough he's still a voting member and the only one representing the Boston market...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Anyone who doesn't grasp that despite his whining and self absorbed viewpoint and need for respect measured in $$$ Richard Seymour has regrets is naive. None of them live happily ever after, they find out while there may be more gra$$ it isn't any greener and sometimes they find out what a real players coach is. Reid hasn't had Asante's back in the face of all his media critics. To the point that 'Sante is now coming so unglued he's interacting with his media critics in the midst of mini camps...while he's on the freakin' field... They're gonna crucify him in Philly this season in the absence of their longstanding goat...

 

[supafly]

That would be a significant improvement for the team at RDE.

I didn't realize that a 330 lb interior lineman was being seriously talked about for our starting RDE. He has never played the position before, and I figure him to be too slow and fat. I was under the impression that he was brought here for depth on our interior d line, for breathers during 4 man fronts, or depth in case of injury. And again, I assumed he had a 50/50 chance at being camp fodder.

No wonder you're bitter, I am simply throwing out stats in defense of any other JAG, and wondering why you're expecting some great signing. I did not know of too many realistically cost effective back up DT's that were actually available, and have been wondering why you're so pissed at this basic signing.

 

[BPF]

I don't see the downside to signing G.Warren, really. He signed for 1-yr and peanuts and he's been a very solid DL, not spectacular but solid. Maybe #3 overall was high but who cares now, he's done a nice job in the league for a long time now.

As for the notion that he's never played in a 3-4, who cares. The guy is big and very strong, in addition to being a good athlete for DL. He's good in a short area, he's solid vs run and can hold the pt well. If he plays in a rotation he'll be productive. He's physical vs run because he is so damn tough to move due to size/stregth. He also can create a good inside push on 3rd down.

 

[Kontradiction]

This is, hopefully, just a depth signing. Still, though, I'd hate to see the day that the starters in front of him are depleted. He sucks. Good thing we have plenty of competition for him in camp.

 

[wcpatsfan]

We don't need Gerard Warren to play like a #3 overall pick, we just need him to add something to the rotation every now and then.

 

[Deus Irae]

I didn't realize that a 330 lb interior lineman was being seriously talked about for our starting RDE. He has never played the position before, and I figure him to be too slow and fat. I was under the impression that he was brought here for depth on our interior d line, for breathers during 4 man fronts, or depth in case of injury. And again, I assumed he had a 50/50 chance at being camp fodder.

No wonder you're bitter, I am simply throwing out stats in defense of any other JAG, and wondering why you're expecting some great signing. I did not know of too many realistically cost effective back up DT's that were actually available, and have been wondering why you're so pissed at this basic signing.

Multiple problems with this:

1.) I'm not bitter. I'm just analyzing a signing and giving my opinion on it, the same as you.

2.) If he's a JAG, he's unnecessary. The team already has JAGS for the interior of the D-line. Therefore....

3.) If he's nothing more than a backup DT, he's taking up a roster spot that could have been put to better use.

4.) He's a 4-3 one gap player, not a 3-4 two gap player. So, whether he's at DE or NT, he's stuck learning something new.

 

[JackBauer]

Not sure if Warren will stick. I like the idea of Lewis (running downs) and Wright (passing downs) at RDE, and I hope Deadrick can come on and contribute as the season progresses.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Anyone who doesn't grasp that despite his whining and self absorbed viewpoint and need for respect measured in $$$ Richard Seymour has regrets is naive. None of them live happily ever after, they find out while there may be more gra$$ it isn't any greener and sometimes they find out what a real players coach is. Reid hasn't had Asante's back in the face of all his media critics. To the point that 'Sante is now coming so unglued he's interacting with his media critics in the midst of mini camps...while he's on the freakin' field... They're gonna crucify him in Philly this season in the absence of their longstanding goat...

A) naive

or

B) not desperate to twist every possible tidbit of information into an anti-everyone else, pro-Belichick rant. Newsflash: Seymour didn't want to leave. He said from the get-go that he wanted to stay, but it wasn't his decision to make. Belichick traded him, and that's that. Could he have stuck around if he was willing to play for 20-30% below market value? Probably. Can you reasonably assume that he regrets his past based on a secondhand account of a suggestion that he may have made to another player? Not unless you're completely overwhelmed by confirmation bias.

 

[supafly]

Multiple problems with this:

1.) I'm not bitter. I'm just analyzing a signing and giving my opinion on it, the same as you.

You often sound bitter, instead of simply disagreeing and moving on, you tend to break down various sentences as if you are some type of defense lawyer. What's wrong with taking the approach of saying "I don't really agree, but everyone has different opinions."---and moving on?

When you keep having multiple problems with every single thing that someone has to say, you become more embattled and bitter sounding. I guess I will now break down your various statements, as you always do.

Kind of like you are a pretend cyberspace defense lawyer on a secret mission.

"That's not a good example." ---I gave stats relative to the player we lost. If he has comparable or better stats to the player we lost, then my feelings are we'll be OK. We all understand they played 2 different systems and gap schemes. Maybe the numbers will be a little down due to the different systems, but I am willing to bet Bill Belichick realizes that.

"He doesn't fit well here in this system."---Also known as answers #2, #3, and #4. Again, I will trust Belichick and his assessment of the talent on this team, be it camp fodder, or a possible back up. I am willing to bet that BB knows more than we do about his fit in the system.

2.) If he's a JAG, he's unnecessary. The team already has JAGS for the interior of the D-line. Therefore....

Here we go again with your "opinion" that he doesn't have any role here. With Brace a no-show, Pryor coming off of a rookie year, and Wright tending to play better in the NT than DE, why doesn't he fit here? Who are the JAGS? A bunch of 1st and 2nd year players. As many stated, he could be here for possible competition with Damione Lewis, as one of them can possibly step up and win the job. In a position that will demand 8-9 roster spots, we always need competition on the O and D lines. Especially during OTA's, mini camps, and training camp 2x a days.

Again, with your posting prowess, and experience as a fan, this should be common knowledge. More camp fodder and compeition is brought in on the lines, in the trenches, particularly in late spring--early summer. Fact.

3.) If he's nothing more than a backup DT, he's taking up a roster spot that could have been put to better use.

First of all, here is a direct quote from Belichick on where he'll likely compete, It doesn't sound too much like DE to me.

“I don’t think you’re going to see him outside of the tackles very often,” Belichick said. “But from tackle to tackle, (he’s) done that. So he definitely has some versatility from both the left side and the right side, in different alignments in there, on both early downs and on passing downs.”



---------

This one belongs with #2. It's your personal opinion that Bill Belichick cannot determine talent value, or possible camp fodder/role playing competition. What would the problem be with taking up a roster spot through the summer? Maybe he's here to compete with Lewis, maybe he's here to take up the majority of the hits and be camp fodder? At any rate, why complain about a roster spot in the early days of May? There have been 1,000 variations over the years of multiple DL guys being on the roster, providing a breather during camp, and having the chance to show if they are patriot material. Considering he was signed for a bologna sandwich on a 1 yr deal, what the hell is the problem?

Also Considering we'll likely need 8-9 DL, show me where it would hurt to have competition right now.

T. Warren
Wilfork
Wright
Warren/Lewis
------<now comes a huge dropoff in talent> 2nd yr players/rookies
Pryor
Deadrick
Richards
Brace

There's 8 or 9 viable, potential players right there, as the others will likely falter.

4.) He's a 4-3 one gap player, not a 3-4 two gap player. So, whether he's at DE or NT, he's stuck learning something new.

Sort of like #2, and #3,-- #4 questions whether Belichick can determine a depth signing or competition player for a position that'll likely take up 8-9 players. I can only hope that he knows how to evaluate talent, and that he has some sort of resume that proves his worth as a talent evaluator. I wonder if maybe we should bring it to his attention that Gerard Warren played in a 1 gap 4-3 syatem? Maybe we should send him a letter.

Apparently he has some sort of plan, whether it be cutting him tomorrow, leaving him for OTA's, mini's, and TC---or actually allowing him the possibility of competing for a back up role. Whatever it is, I don't see why you care so much? Better yet, why you don't have faith that there's a plan in order?

 

[Deus Irae]

You often sound bitter, instead of simply disagreeing and moving on, you tend to break down various sentences as if you are some type of defense lawyer. What's wrong with taking the approach of saying "I don't really agree, but everyone has different opinions."---and moving on?

When you keep having multiple problems with every single thing that someone has to say, you become more embattled and bitter sounding. I guess I will now break down your various statements, as you always do.

Kind of like you are a pretend cyberspace defense lawyer on a secret mission.

Amazingly, the homers didn't think I sounded as bitter when I was in more agreement with them. The sad reality is that Patriots homers view everything from a defensive lens. Any criticism is read as if it's a personal attack against a family member, rather than taken for what it generally is, which is simple disagreement. I call them as I see them.

Regarding the "multiple things", I just prefer to break down the points. It allows for some things to be agreed upon or dropped, even as you deal with the rest, and it also allows the different areas to be focused on.

As for the "different opinions", thing, I'll simply note that you could have taken the same approach, but you also chose not to do so.

 

[Deus Irae]

"That's not a good example." ---I gave stats relative to the player we lost. If he has comparable or better stats to the player we lost, then my feelings are we'll be OK. We all understand they played 2 different systems and gap schemes. Maybe the numbers will be a little down due to the different systems, but I am willing to bet Bill Belichick realizes that.

You compared stats of a career starter in 1 gap systems to a career backup in a 2 gap system who was forced into starting roles due to injury and, later, trade. Furthermore, had Green gotten the job done, he'd still be with the team. In other words, you've been trying to compare Warren to a player who couldn't get the job done, and somehow putting this forth as a good thing. It was a bad comparison.

"He doesn't fit well here in this system."---Also known as answers #2, #3, and #4. Again, I will trust Belichick and his assessment of the talent on this team, be it camp fodder, or a possible back up. I am willing to bet that BB knows more than we do about his fit in the system.

Yes, here is the heart of the issue. "BB realizes/BB knows..."

Why post on a message board if your response is "BB realizes/BB knows..." every time?

Also, BB sure as hell didn't "know" about a lot of those 'fits' last year, and he apparently didn't "know" with AdT, just to point to one more example.

 

[supafly]

Amazingly, the homers didn't think I sounded as bitter when I was in more agreement with them. The sad reality is that Patriots homers view everything from a defensive lens. Any criticism is read as if it's a personal attack against a family member, rather than taken for what it generally is, which is simple disagreement. I call them as I see them.

Regarding the "multiple things", I just prefer to break down the points. It allows for some things to be agreed upon or dropped, even as you deal with the rest, and it also allows the different areas to be focused on.

As for the "different opinions", thing, I'll simply note that you could have taken the same approach, but you also chose not to do so.

Fair observation, but to be honest, it kind of makes it hard to when someone is breaking down you every sentence. I think it's natural humanistic nature to want to explain yourself.

In a forum where there are threads ranging from, "should TB be traded?" to "should BB be fired?" I just didn't see the huge disagreement between whether or not G.Warren could be a viable JAG signing.

I have mentioned time and again that I have appreciated your objective viewpoints, and if anything, I have in some ways tried to keep an open mind like you do. You are one of 25 posters whom I try not to disagree with if possible, even when we are not on the same page.

In the big picture I can appreciate why you'd be slightly upset over a potential RDE replacement with a seasoned JAG. I have been looking at it from the other side of things, as I see him as simply camp competition with the possibility to step up and earn a role spot at times. As I stated, if he at 330 lbs is a potential RDE replacement, then I can only hope that someone beats him to the position, which is likely. I see him as a DT signed for depth, and simple competition, maybe even someone to take the brunt of 2x a days in the hot sun.

 

[supafly]

You compared stats of a career starter in 1 gap systems to a career backup in a 2 gap system who was forced into starting roles due to injury and, later, trade. Furthermore, had Green gotten the job done, he'd still be with the team. In other words, you've been trying to compare Warren to a player who couldn't get the job done, and somehow putting this forth as a good thing. It was a bad comparison.



Yes, here is the heart of the issue. "BB realizes/BB knows..."

Why post on a message board if your response is "BB realizes/BB knows..." every time?

Also, BB sure as hell didn't "know" about a lot of those 'fits' last year, and he apparently didn't "know" with AdT, just to point to one more example.

I think you know that I don't post that 'BB knows' everytime. One of the reasons that we generally don't butt heads is that I am likened to your views in the fact that I am not a homer, nor a chicken little. I like you, try to be objective regarding various issues, because every issue's different.

I think I'm just having a hard time understanding what you would of rather have happened? To my knowledge, there were not many realistic (monetary-wise) fits in the market regarding our potential RDE replacement, as I still don't think G.Warren has anything to do with this problem.

I believe someone else can be signed, or someone else such as Pryor, or Wright can play RDE, not to mention a battle of rookies/2nd yr players. There are lots of options that can be had.

As far as AD, he had a good yr in 07, then was having a decent yr when he got hurt in 08. He wasn't anything close to what he is currently, nor did he have anything close to as poor of a year as 09--so how can you really fault Belichick for screwing that up?

In 07, he had the versatility going for him, the t-shirt stuff which showed leadership in the lockerroom, and was just fine. In early 08, he had a good SB, then was even leading the team in sacks when he got hurt. There wasn't much talk, if any that AD was a malcontent up to Sept. 09, when everything started. I cannot see how you'd blame BB for not properly evaluating his talent?

If anything, I actually give BB props for removing a problem by nipping it in the bud before it could get any worse.

 

[supafly]

We don't need Gerard Warren to play like a #3 overall pick, we just need him to add something to the rotation every now and then.

This is how I have been looking at the signing too.

He signed for peanuts, and can provide back up depth in case of injury. In a worse case scenario, he can take the brunt of 2 a days in the sun, and get beaten on in TC.

It's even possible, although unlikely, that BB can even try and use whatever raw skills made him a #3 overall pick in the first place--by using his strengths to our advantage. (while minding to, and watching for the weaknesses)

I don't see this any different than the Damione Lewis signing, or any of the hundreds of JAG signings that we've made in early spring or summer for OTA's, mini's and TC. If he steps up and provides a spark and shows competition for back up, fine. If he doesn't, then fine too. What's the major problem?