Clay Matthews: The Gift That Keeps On Giving

[patchick]

Passing on Clay Matthews last year has been a source of ongoing angst for many on this board. In the wake of this year's draft, I thought I'd update the running tally of what the Patriots have received in return for their 2009 1st-round pick:


EDIT: bucky spotted that i'd taken a wrong turn in the twisty, turny path of that pick. My apologies, it appears that we can officially close the door on the 2009 1st rounder with:

Darius Butler, Brandon Tate, Julian Edelman, and (97% of) Rob Gronkowski.


(Meanwhile it was the #89 overall in 2009 that the Pats have turned into Spikes, Mesko and--in a poetic turn--this year's #89, which has become Carolia's 2001 2nd round pick. Contemplate that: they parlayed a late 3rd into 2 2nds and a 5th!)

 

[MVPatsfan13]

wow, that haul puts things into perspective. I never wanted Matthews, but his supporters have to realize that BBs way gives us a better team

 

[bucky]

Technically, I believe the Jaguars' pick was used on Gronkowski though. So it would make it Butler, Tate, Gronkowski and I guess Edelman. But technicalitles aside, I like how you framed this. It just keeps on gowing and gowing. We might still have future picks to track from it after Mathews' career is done.

 

[SeauOUCH]

this is pretty insane.

 

[patchick]

Technically, I believe the Jaguars' pick was used on Gronkowski though. So it would make it Butler, Tate, Gronkowski and I guess Edelman.

Ugh, did I follow the bouncing ball to the wrong 2nd-round pick? I'll double-check and change as necessary, thanks.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Considering how close those two picks were (44 & 47) I feel that it's almost immaterial which ones went where. Well, that's not quite true. I think what I'm trying to say is that either one of those picks could have turned into a player + a 2011 pick, but by virtue of having both, we had the freedom to continue trading. Without the cluster of valuable picks in the second, we wouldn't have traded from such a position of strength.

In the end, I'm more than happy with the picks. I think Butler is going to be a star, Edelman and Tate will be solid starters, and Gronkowski could be a pro bowler for us. Truly remarkable!

 

[Yorkshire Patriot]

Passing on Clay Matthews last year has been a source of ongoing angst for many on this board. In the wake of this year's draft, I thought I'd update the running tally of what the Patriots have received in return for their 2009 1st-round pick:


EDIT: bucky spotted that i'd taken a wrong turn in the twisty, turny path of that pick. My apologies, it appears that we can officially close the door on the 2009 1st rounder with:

Darius Butler, Brandon Tate, Julian Edelman, and (97% of) Rob Gronkowski.


(Meanwhile it was the #89 overall in 2009 that the Pats have turned into Spikes, Mesko and--in a poetic turn--this year's #89, which has become Carolia's 2001 2nd round pick. Contemplate that: they parlayed a late 3rd into 2 2nds and a 5th!)

I think its fair to say that we all get pretty annoyed when BB trades back time and time again, but when you see what he has been able to do with a single pick it is really remarkable. I'm so gratefull that we dont have an inept front office like the Bills, Jaguars or Raiders (except this year when they had a very good draft for a change.

Great work Bill, keep it up

 

[patchick]

Considering how close those two picks were (44 & 47) I feel that it's almost immaterial which ones went where. Well, that's not quite true. I think what I'm trying to say is that either one of those picks could have turned into a player + a 2011 pick, but by virtue of having both, we had the freedom to continue trading. Without the cluster of valuable picks in the second, we wouldn't have traded from such a position of strength.

Well put. The flexibility is incredibly valuable.

 

[patchick]

While we're at it, here's the haul from this years first-round pick (#22):

Devin McCourty, Taylor Price and Aaron Hernandez.

(FWIW, Gosselin's pre-draft rankings for those players were #24, #75, #53. Combined "point value" equivalent to #9 overall. More importantly, all nifty prospects.)

 

[Mogamedogz]

Yea... id still rather have Clay Matthews. But that's just me. :bricks:

 

[patchick]

Yea... id still rather have Clay Matthews. But that's just me. :bricks:

That's a totally reasonable opinion. I just object to those who lament the "colossal blunder" of "throwing away" a chance at Matthews. Both sides got full value from that trade.

(To me, the weird part is still that they didn't take one of the alternatives to Matthews a round later. But that's well-trodden ground.)

 

[bucky]

Considering how close those two picks were (44 & 47) I feel that it's almost immaterial which ones went where. Well, that's not quite true. I think what I'm trying to say is that either one of those picks could have turned into a player + a 2011 pick, but by virtue of having both, we had the freedom to continue trading. Without the cluster of valuable picks in the second, we wouldn't have traded from such a position of strength.

In the end, I'm more than happy with the picks. I think Butler is going to be a star, Edelman and Tate will be solid starters, and Gronkowski could be a pro bowler for us. Truly remarkable!

Absolutely. I wasn't trying to be difficult. Either way it works out. The jury's still out as to which side of the trade was better. Most of the Pats picks haven't done anything yet and I'm not sold that Mathews is a stud OLB.

 

[BelichickFan]

While we're at it, here's the haul from this years first-round pick (#22):

Devin McCourty, Taylor Price and Aaron Hernandez.

(FWIW, Gosselin's pre-draft rankings for those players were #24, #75, #53. Combined "point value" equivalent to #9 overall. More importantly, all nifty prospects.)

All these trades are just sick. Especially for me because last year at our #1 I wanted Butler and this year at #22 I wanted McCourty so all the trade down stuff is literally free from my perspective. It's crazy stuff and while we paid for real for the 2011 Raider #1, the Carolina #2 is more free stuff.

 

[Mogamedogz]

All these trades are just sick. Especially for me because last year at our #1 I wanted Butler and this year at #22 I wanted McCourty so all the trade down stuff is literally free from my perspective. It's crazy stuff and while we paid for real for the 2011 Raider #1, the Carolina #2 is more free stuff.

You actually called that pick?? Seriously??

 

[BelichickFan]

You actually called that pick?? Seriously??

Yeah, I posted here :

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...6-another-option-wilson-22-a.html#post1788735

that he would be on top of my want list although I never actually did update my "4" before the draft. In the Dream Draft thread I listed Kareem Jackson but he was gone by #22.

But, yes, when the pick came up McCourty was who I wanted. He was a safe pick, can contribute on ST while he develops as a CB and, contrary to many opinions, I considered CB to be a need position with all the throwing the NFL does now.

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

I just want a pass rushing OLB its been 3 years since we had a good Vrabel and 5 years since we had McGinnest how can BB just keep ignoring the position.

 

[WhiZa]

I just want a pass rushing OLB its been 3 years since we had a good Vrabel and 5 years since we had McGinnest how can BB just keep ignoring the position.

He signed AD 3 years ago, and re-upped Colvin 2 years ago, then moved to more 4-3 last year. I think it's safe to say with AD being cut we'll be signing someone else or changing the scheme to fit the players.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I was one of the people who actually wanted Clay Matthews. I felt that he could be the best of the USC linebackers that year. Loved his bloodlines and ability. But when you consider the haul that we did get, I think we got an equivalent if not better deal. 4 players vs 1:

Darius Butler, Brandon Tate, Julian Edelman, and (97% of) Rob Gronkowski

 

[Real World]

Passing on Clay Matthews last year has been a source of ongoing angst for many on this board. In the wake of this year's draft, I thought I'd update the running tally of what the Patriots have received in return for their 2009 1st-round pick:


EDIT: bucky spotted that i'd taken a wrong turn in the twisty, turny path of that pick. My apologies, it appears that we can officially close the door on the 2009 1st rounder with:

Darius Butler, Brandon Tate, Julian Edelman, and (97% of) Rob Gronkowski.


(Meanwhile it was the #89 overall in 2009 that the Pats have turned into Spikes, Mesko and--in a poetic turn--this year's #89, which has become Carolia's 2001 2nd round pick. Contemplate that: they parlayed a late 3rd into 2 2nds and a 5th!)

While we're at it, here's the haul from this years first-round pick (#22):

Devin McCourty, Taylor Price and Aaron Hernandez.

(FWIW, Gosselin's pre-draft rankings for those players were #24, #75, #53. Combined "point value" equivalent to #9 overall. More importantly, all nifty prospects.)

Speaking out loud here people. I will say that the "value" is indeed terrific. However, if Matthews turns into a perrenial Pro-bowler, or Dez Bryant becomes the next coming of Randy Moss, will aquiring multiple picks still be worth it? Assuming of course that the Patriots selections don't amount to something worthwhile. The point is, I'd much prefer a stud player, to a couple of Benjamin Watson, Terrence Wheatley, Bethel Johnson types.

 

[Don Kipines]

Speaking out loud here people. I will say that the "value" is indeed terrific. However, if Matthews turns into a perrenial Pro-bowler, or Dez Bryant becomes the next coming of Randy Moss, will aquiring multiple picks still be worth it? Assuming of course that the Patriots selections don't amount to something worthwhile. The point is, I'd much prefer a stud player, to a couple of Benjamin Watson, Terrence Wheatley, Bethel Johnson types.

I get what you're saying, but if you go back and look at the draft history, you just don't add a whole lot more risk moving down a few spots, especially in the first two rounds.

A lot of the draft is luck -- injuries, unknown variables, etc. Especially when you consider that the other teams should reasonably be expected to evaluate players as efficiently as you do, there aren't that many ways to get a concrete advantage. The only thing you can really control is how many picks you get.

The Patriots' recent strategy of picking as many players as possible between the 20-90 area makes great logical sense. Their problem is that they have made some unusually bad picks. If they guess right even half the time, though, they will come out ahead. You're saying you'd rather not have Bethel Johnsons and Ben Watsons -- well, would you rather have Dez Bryant, or Deion Branch and Logan Mankins?

Just numerically speaking, you have a better chance with three highly-touted players than one. Plus the negative effect of investing a lot in one guy and having him flame out is mitigated when you spread that risk out over multiple players. Take the example from this thread. What if Clay Matthews tears his ACL tomorrow and is out two years? Now you have a hole at linebacker and you're paying a first-round salary for no production.

Or what if Dez Bryant is the next Rashaun Woods or Charles Rogers or Mike Williams? Would you rather have him, or McCourty, Hernandez and Price, none of whom will be making Bryant money?

The Pats could lose any of their players to injury (they did, last year, with Tate) and still get production from the other guys. Two of the players from that Matthews deal were starters in a playoff game. If they had pursued this strategy earlier and not sat out the 2006-2007 drafts so much, they'd be in much better shape right now.